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alleycallie_gw

Plant plumbago or ajuga now?

alleycallie
16 years ago

I spent some time searching dave's garden and also on this site for information on Chocolate Chip ajuga and dwarf plumbago. I posted this on the groundcover forum, but the turnaround on answers is slow and noone has responded. I'd like to purchase some plants this weekend, so hope someone will respond in the next two days.

Last week at the nearest nursery garden center 50 miles away, I saw "Dwarf Plumbago" as a new plant just in for fall planting. No other info on the tag. It was quite green-leafed and very bushy, about 6 inches tall. Also noted was that it needed good drainage and would grow in sun or shade.

According to info I just found online, it will spread as groundcover (are they agressive plants?) and it will be hardy in zone 5 according to comments submitted (Anyone in Kansas zone 5/6 grow this?). Also, alkaline soil seemed to be OK.

I want to plant this on a slope that gets some sun in the morning, but by noon is in shade near tall trees. The ground is a southwest corner, so as the sun travels west, it does get some later afternoon sun, but not a lot. Our soil is alkaline, and the soil on this slope is not the greatest soil. I would of course use garden soil to help amend when I planted.

Any comments or advice on this? It's hot now, but I really want to get something out on that ugly corner and am willing to water anything new. Or am I crazy and should I wait till September?

Another choice would be ajuga. I have not had luck with this in my backyard gardens where there is better soil, but a lot of shade. It finally just disappeared.

But yesterday I saw several ajugas, and so many people love chocolate chip. Would you recommend this for my slope also? Or another form of ajuga? Or simply another groundcover altogether?

Your thoughts? Thanks, Leann

Comments (18)

  • chris_ont
    16 years ago

    I also just bought several ajuga Chocolate Chip because they were on sale and because I had them in my previous garden where they did a great job as groundcover.
    I planted these ones in a dry shade spot although the tag said they like it a little on the damp side. (Previously, I had them growing in full sun, without any extra water).
    They did droop a bit because the weather here's been hot and dry.

    I want them to spread like mad to cover a corner where grass just won't take. There was some moss there, and I did not amend. I'm thinking of going back to pick up a few more of these. I'm a little worried that I might be asking too much of this plant, but figure it's worth a try.

    How large an area do you need to cover? My absolute favorite shade ground cover is Sweet Woodruff. Delicate green color with white flowers, spreads quickly but isn't strong enough to crowd out ferns and hostas and other shade plants.
    I don't know what soil conditions it prefers - I've always had it in the very composty hosta beds. It can take some sun.

    Ajuga would be better for controlling erosion and runoff on a slope, though, and is in fact recommended for that.

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    16 years ago

    I've never seen a "dwarf plumbago" - they're all dwarf (short) that I'm aware of. Probably just a marketing spin for the tag since a lot of folks aren't familiar with this little beauty of a plant.

    I have plumbago and I LOVE it! It grows lushly in part-shade, and will also grow in sunnier areas. The foliage stays neat and tidy all season, but it will spread where it's happy. Those flowers! They're a true *blue*, a gorgeous jolting electric blue.

    It is a beautiful groundcover, and I definitely recommend it. I've had no problem overwintering in my zone, and I have planted in both spring and fall with no problems. Go for it!!

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  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    16 years ago

    I assume your referring to leadwort (Ceratostigma plumbaginoides), a wonderful plant but one that comes up quite late in the spring. As such it's terrific for planting bulbs in it, but be aware that it won't give you any groundcover look until rather late. Also, you'll have the dead growth all winter unless you cut it back. Tolerates full sun, considerable shade and a wide range of soils.

    BTW, it's been my experience that it simply doesn't establish for fall planting in zones 5b. Spring planting is much better, though if you put it in right now and can keep in well watered in the heat, it might make it.

  • entling
    16 years ago

    I can't believe no one has mentioned the most attractive feature of Ceratostigma - it's foliage turns a stunning red in fall, while the plant is still blooming. It is not an aggressive spreader & takes a few years to get going. It is quite drought tolerant. (Can you tell I like this plant?) I used to have Ajuga - emphasis on past tense. Don't like it, won't grow it. Wish I had more Ceratostigma plumbaginoides!

  • Monique z6a CT
    16 years ago

    Ceratostigma plumbaginoides is one of my fave groundcovers. As mentioned, it comes up late, but then the foliage always looks nice, has true blue flowers starting about this time of year into fall, and red foliage in cooler weather. My patches spread easily, but not overly aggressively.

    Here it is at the base of a hardy Begonia a couple Septembers ago:
    {{gwi:263807}}

  • alleycallie
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Oh, thank you all so much for your advice and suggestions. Since I have a huge slope to cover, maybe I'll try all your suggestions. I did make a grocery run today to the nearest large city 50 some miles away and stopped at a different nursery, this one had something I think was called lisymachia? I'm writing this on the run at the office on my day off, have meeting. No time to research. Thanks again, now I have to debate if it is just my ego that wants plants there NOW, or should my better sense prevail and wait until it is cooler. This all came up because of guests coming, so its probably ego. It is 102 here, with high high humidity. I don't want the plants to suffer. Must make a decision for sure by next week this time.
    Alleycallie

  • blackswamp_girl
    16 years ago

    I love my ajuga 'Chocolate Chip' but I have had it for at least 2 years and I will caution you that it does not spread very quickly. I have had other ajugas spread much better at the old house, but then again I do have well-drained soil on the dryish side. It likes moist.

    Thy golden form of that lysimachia nummularia is a lot less of a thug than the green form (which I would NOT plant--too much of a thug!) but it is a pretty quick spreader and stays very low. It would cover a large area well/quickly, but like the ajugas it likes a decent amount of water and in my dry soil it doesn't spread as quickly as reported. (Your soil is probably pretty dry with the competition provided by the tree roots. That's why I keep mentioning this!)

    The Sweet woodruff is a nice groundcover, too, as someone mentioned above. Many times you can find pots of it in the herb section of a garden center for cheap.

  • leslie197
    16 years ago

    In my zone 5 garden with dense water-retentive clay I would have to say that Ceratostigma plumbaginoides is sort of semi-hardy. I always keep a bit of it because it's so pretty, and as Monique shows in her lovely picture it makes great combinations, but it must be spotted well in order to survive the winter. A dry slope may be the answer for growing it well, but it is hard for me to imagine it as a ground covering for a large slope.

    BTW, ajuga does somewhat better for me, but some of the varieties such as Caitlin's Giant and Burgandy Glow fall in that semi-hardy range - some years it survives, other years it doesn't. So far chocolate Chip has been winter hardy for me, but doesn't show up well without contrasting plants. It looks very nice with silvery heucheras, lungworts, bright green bergenias, & Japanese Painted ferns. All these will do well in a.m. sun and shaded afternoons.

  • alleycallie
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I haven't had a chance to use my office DSL to check out Ceratostigma plumbaginoides and Lysimachia (part-time job,just me, and I'm OK'd for use after hours--but it is 16 miles away, so never go on weekends). Dial-up here at home is ridiculously slow, so I save research for the workweek, if I have the time.

    I'm beginning to be afraid of trying ajuga again, especially on the slope. I might try some chocolate chip in my back yard garden, which is the "real" gardening site. I appreciate the combination suggestion of silvery heucheras, lungworts, and bright green bergenias. Sounds beautiful.

    My goal on northwest and southwest is to not plant the entire ground with groundcover. I like the look of a little this and that with mulch separating groups. I also plan to put various bulbs in this fall. I do think I will put some plumbago in, but of course not depend on it covering some large space. Thanks for mentioning that fact.

    In the more shaded section, the largest part of the slope, I plan to transplant more vinca--I have a little started there, just not willing to put more in until it is cooler. I don't mind its agressiveness there, I have plenty of it elsewhere to steal, so no $$. Once established, I will just have to trim and work with the north and south areas where they border the vinca.

    Back to Sweet Woodruff: I will definitely check this out. Also a comment about Japanese painted fern. So beautiful, but alas, after planting it and seeing it not do well, I read that it likes acidic soil and it quickly died in our strongly alkaline soil.

    I'm still willing to hear other suggestions and comments. Such wonderful ideas from all of you. Thanks again, Leann

  • entling
    16 years ago

    My shade garden has very well-drained soil (on a slight slope w/ lots of tree roots). The most successful groundcovers there are the native wild ginger (Asarum canadense), Geranium macrorhyzium & Labrador violets (Viola labradorica). All look good all season & can handle drought. They spread well, but can be controlled easily. Fallen leaves do not need to be raked off the wild ginger, which is a big help if they are planted under trees.

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    16 years ago

    My opinion on Sweet Woodruff: Lovely the first season, a ratty mess after the second season. I couldn't stand it and ripped it out years ago and have zero desire to ever plant it again.

  • corydalisenvy
    16 years ago

    I am in zone five and planted a plumbago three weeks ago, and wow! Its twice if not three times the size and is covered with the blue flowers. The best part is that the leaves are already starting to turn copperish-red as they do later in the season.
    Be aware that this is somewhat vigorous and will spread under the right conditions. Mine is shaded with moist rich fertile soil, and apparently it loves it. I will keep an eye to see how big it gets next year!

  • alleycallie
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Corydalisenvy, I noted that your luck with plumbago might be related to growing it in moist rich fertile soil. My slope will be fairly poor soil and dry. Hmmmm....

    Entling, Thank you for the wild ginger, geranium and violet suggestions. I will definitely check those out.

    Blackswampgirl, the lysimachia nummularia on daves garden looks something like a patch of green variety that I inherited in my back yard and I love it, but it sure grows slow for me. What I saw at the garden center was bushy, about 6-8 inches high, the leaves were a darkish green with veins and the white flower was sort of stalk-like.

    Ok, all of you old hands, how in the world do you really identify plants in garden centers that do not carry the family, genus, etc. on the tag? This drives me nuts. So many of the pictures on Dave's Garden and on this site, focus on the flower, or the leaf, but not both. Or they show a semi-far away shot, or a real closeup. I just looked up lysimachia and found its common name is loosestrife. Out of 40-odd some entries, I couldn't find one picture that looked like what I saw at the garden center the other day.

    Other websites to try? Books? I'm going to do a new post soon asking for suggestions of books, because there arn't really top-notch professional nurseries, and even the ones here considered "good" are staffed in the most part with summer teenage help who don't even garden! Our local library is housed in a 20x maybe 35 foot room, but I do have access to interlibrary loan. Not many dollars with which to buy books, but I'd like to own 1-2 really comprehensive ones.

    Thank you all. Alleycallie

  • entling
    16 years ago

    I can't imagine a garden center not labeling their plants properly (or at least having staff around to help), but, 1 way to start is to check out books on wildflowers, including those from around the world. Learn the basics of what the species looks like, the characteristics of each family. Learn the terms for the types of leaves & how the plant holds them. Learn the terms for the type of flowers. Then move on to any library books on a single species (a monograph) such as a book on Salvia or Aquilegias. Are you near any botanical gardens or arboreta? If so, consider joining so that you can have access to their libraries. Taking a class is also a good way to learn about plants. Some garden centers offer free classes on perennials. As for a specific reference book, I can't recommend 1 as all have advantages & disadvantages & I think it's a matter of personal taste. The 1 book I recommend buying is Tracy DiSabato-Aust's "The Well Tended Perennial Garden." (But that's more for care of the plants than IDing). Sometimes when I want to know what a plant looks like, I'll do a Google image search on that plant.

  • athenainwi
    16 years ago

    Thanks for that lovely picture Monique. I had to buy a plumbago today and try it. I'm going to use it in the front of my garden over the tulip area since it sounds perfect for that spot. It is flowering in the pot and I love the color. If it doesn't survive the winter then I'll buy another one or two in the spring.

  • alleycallie
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks, entling, for the book suggestion. I will get it through Interlibrary loan and see if I should buy it. As for garden centers and arboretums, the nearest is 90 miles away, so traveling for library use and classes is out of the question.

    I've decided to try 3 plumbago for now. Thanks again to all. alleycallie

  • deeje
    16 years ago

    Oh, I LOVE plumbago! I used to buy it in the spring and plant it in pots... but it's so unusual up here that it's an INCREDIBLY expensive annual when I can find it.

    And although I've had luck overwintering warmer-zone perennials in my (insulated but unheated) garage, plumbago never made it through for me. Definitely an annual in my neck of the woods -- but a favorite. Love that blue!

  • brandyray
    16 years ago

    Looserife is considered invasive in some areas- I don't know that myself but have read it here many times.
    I have Ajuga, one of the chocolate varieties and like it very much. It is in dry shade but has done well and is spreading slowly.
    I just bought plumbago on a recent trip to S.C. I had seen it in catalogs before but never in real life. I don't know yet how it will do, but it is planted out in the hot sun in my perennial garden.
    Loved the pic above. I think the bluey-purple plant behind was catmint- which I have and love. Extremely hardy and easy care, spreads into a nice 3 ft mat.
    Deeje- plumbago can be ordered very reasonably from Bluestone. Brandy