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African Violets

Question about propagating registered varieties...

17 years ago

I was just wondering about the rules for putting down leaves of registered leaves (Optimera springs to mind), is it okay if you're trading with friends? Is it okay for sale on Ebay or some other outlet? I see alot of Robs starters for sale on Ebay, is that ethical (or are Robs unregistered?)?

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Comments (9)

irina_co
17 years ago
Avsforme,

Optimara gets patents on its violets. So I presume legally you can restart your own old plant from a leaf and replace it and that's all you can do.

Registration - in AVSA - doesn't impose any restrictions on propagation.

Optimara is doing a mass production and protecting its violets from beingcommercially propagated by another mass producer. Even if the sale of their leaves on ebay is not legal, not really - I doubt they will be after these little guys.

The stores that sell Optimara plants are obliged to have an Optimara marker in every pot. I believe you can contact Optimara, pay a fee and they will send you some markers. This way with every Optimara baby you sell - you pay royalties - let's say 9 cents a piece - and this is a proper way to do things.

Cheers

irina
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avsforme
Original Author
17 years ago
Hi irina, Thanks for the answer I was thinking of contacting Optimara and asking about purchasing the name tags to make everything as legal as possible. How about using one of their plants as a parent plant for a new hybrid?
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Thanks for the reminder. There was another discussion on the forum around that same time on this topic. It got me thinking and motivated me to contact a vendor I order from frequently, Lyndon Lyon's, on this topic. I found that once I joined a club, members were expected to share clippings. So I asked if it was ok to share leaves and cuttings on a small scale, such as a club, etc. They said it was ok. I did not ask any other vendors, because I mostly had Lyon's plants, so that would be what I would share with others. With so many vendors struggling to produce new varieties for us each year, I felt I should give them my business as much as possible as they are struggling to make a profit. Many other hybridizers growers and vendors went out of the AV business because it was not profitable. The problem is probably more that not enough people were buying AVs and they went out of fashion, they do take a little fussiness, unlike other houseplants, and they are not seasonal, so they need year round attention. So they need a dedicated group of people to keep the hobby going. ** Recently I have been buying leaves from new hybridizers, so before I share with others, I will check with the growers if that is ok. That would be one way to introduce their plants to a club. I used to be in the commercial sales end of another type of seasonal flowering product grown overseas. So I knew that there is a limited season, market, and number of producers who are all in competition. They go to a great deal of trouble to bring their product to market. However, most growers are mainly concerned about competition from other major growers, not individuals like ourselves. I think if there was a real problem, the AVSA would address it. It is always wise to know what the patent and copyright laws are. Most of us don't give a second thought to sharing our seedlings, suckers, or fallen leaves. I had one Lyon's plant that produced about 20 suckers a year. It was a trailer, but I did not let it trail. I shared them all. Now the original hybridizer is not offering that plant any longer, but another nearby vendor has picked it up. I am one of those geeky types who likes to know all the technical details of the law! To me, it is simply another fascinating detail of how these lovelies got to land on my desk and shelves. **Another topic is the presentation and design aspects of AVs to make them attractive to newcomers. Joanne
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irina_co
17 years ago
The general opinion - go for it. The warning is usually concerns an asexual propagation. But I didn't see their papers.

Why do you need to get Optimara tags? Are you going to start a business propagating them? I do not think there is such a large demand for them.

I.
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avsforme
Original Author
17 years ago
Hi irina, I was hoping to buy some leaves from selectivegardener.com (Optimera) and propagate them then possibly sell on ebay or around here (I have one lady interested already, she owns a flower/plant shop), it wouldn't be large scale at all, just a bedroom/basement venture. I just want to do it as legally as possible.
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irina_co
17 years ago
I believe that the royalties for the Space Babies would be much higher if they will give their permit at all. Selective Gardener sells them at quite a high price. BlueBird greenhouse also sells them and cheaper.

I have several of them - and when you propagate them - they sport a lot. Most often they reverse to EverPraise - the light blue one.

Good luck - and if you are going to make a buck to offset your hobby's expenses - try to grow chimeras - they are always in demand, streptocarpus etc. - it seems to me that the AV market is more than filled.

Good Luck to your enterprize.

I.
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avsforme
Original Author
17 years ago
irina, I was hoping to mostly stick with the minis and micro minis, I have the room for standards and large and have leaves from all the sizes put down but did want to stay away from the standards and larges for hybridizing. I just find the minis so adorable. I was thinking of getting some of the Little Jewels and the Indian named minis from selective gardener (yes they are expensive, I got a touch of sticker shock when I first priced them!). I've looked at Streps in one of the plant shops out here, they were very nice (but unnamed, I've turned into a "plant snob"), I decided to stay away from them till I do some mad scientist experimenting on the AVs. But you're right the Streps and Chimeras do move fast on ebay! I also looked into Chiritas, very pretty and up and coming me thinks! Just a random thought...do you think you could cross a mini AV with a mini Sinningia (like White Sprite)? Or maybe a small Chirita with a mini sinningia....oh, the mad scientist is going wacko! Becky :o)
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robitaillenancy1
17 years ago
Lorraine from Optimara told another forum that you can propagate Optimaras for your own use and for trading. But it is illegal to propagate for selling plants or leaves.

Nancy
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irina_co
17 years ago
Becky -

about crossing:

It is rare when it is possible to successfully cross between the genera and these intergeneric crosses often come sterile.
Different amount of chromosomes is a main problem. The closer the genera on a family tree - the more chances. Like Smithiantha and Achimenes can be crossed and produce a beautiful X-Achimenantha.

AV is an African plant and Sinningia - South American. So in their evolution they are quite far apart in time and space from the common predecessor. The same is with Chirita.
So the chances of success of such crossing are not good.

And the size is not critical in crossing. If really necessary you can cross a mastiff and the pug, but not cat and dog. Or there is way more than enough of wolf-dog hybrids - but did you hear about dog-foxes? Even they all are canines. (May be dogs just do not like the way the foxes smell..)

Good luck in your crossings.

I.
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avsforme
Original Author
17 years ago
Hi irina, That all makes sence. There are some Chiritas out there that I'd love to cross (with other Chiritas), beautiful plants and lots of potential! I just bought 9 of Rob's little beauties (AVs) and hope to use them as a beginning for my hybridizing experiments. I've been studying the dominant/recessive traits and cannot find an answer to one question...is green dominant or recessive? any idea? BTW, the Pug/Mastiff cross would be quite amusing, they could be called Pustiffs or Mastugs....LOL!
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