For me it's easy to put all of the tall things on the north side, because my house faces pretty much due south. Now when it comes to width, I'm in the same boat, constantly moving things. Since plants can't read the tags, they don't always grow to the width they are supposed to : ) Plus, this is only my second full year of serious gardening, so I'm still learning the habits of the plants I have chosen. I think this issue will diminish as I gain more familiarity with the things I'm growing.

I don't really know of a formula for plant placement, but I wouldn't worry too much about plants that get a 1/2 day of full sun, since "full sun" usually means 6 to 8 hours, and there are approx. 14 hours of daylight during the summer, so a 1/2 day should still be enough for full sun plants.

One suggestion would be to take advantage of the shade provided by the taller plants, to mix in plants that don't need as much sun, like Heuchera, Columbine, Lobelia, etc.

I think I will always be moving things around though, trying new combinations of colors and textures, but I'm happiest when I'm digging in the dirt
anyway.

Bonnie

The easiest but at the same time hardest way to deal with the spacing is to just decide to 'play it by the book' for a season or two. Go out with a yardstick and plant everything the proper, measured distance apart.

Oh, I have decided that I cannot wait for years until the flower bed fills out! LOL! So I just went ahead and place the plants where I THINK they should be at the time (within reason, of course), and then worry about the mature spacing later! If I need to yank out some perennials then, it will be fine. They will have served the purpose during those few years and I will be happy.

PM, I invariably plant things too close together, though I have tried to be more realistic in the last couple of years. My strategy has been to put fast growing annuals as fillers between new perennial plantings-they are destined to croak anyway and I can keep stuffing them in here and there relatively cheaply until the more permanent plantings fill out. Shading is something that has been a chronic problem for me, because of the closeness of the neighbors and the trees and fences that result. I have very little choice in the alignment of my beds , so I try not to plant something that will throw too much shade on it's neighbor.What if you thought about your 20ft square bed in a diagonal way? Would the drifts of taller to shorther plants look less 'regimented' if you drew a line making it two triangles?

Kathy in Napa

Well, thank you all for giving me something to think about. I've decided just this year, that I am design challenged in the garden. I don't seem to be coming up happy with any of the results of what seemed like great ideas at the time. [g] So, I am a little gun shy of placing plants this time around. It seems so odd, that I can recognize good design and find many gardens and styles of garden that I absolutely love, but to create a garden seems more of a challenge than I thought and placement is where things start to go wrong for me.

Like you Kathy, what I have to work with is not at all what I would choose, so I try to make the best of it, which lately is getting on my nerves. [g] I would love to move too and start over. Want to take me with you? :-)

I was just looking at an old photo of your front garden and actually the size of our front yard is similar in size. You are lucky that you have the sidewalk, we go straight to the street. I like what you've done by having no lawn...it makes much more sense in that size yard and looks very attractive. I have wanted to do something similar in the front, but DH is reluctant to give up all the lawn. He feels mowing the lawn once a week is a lot less work than caring for perennial/shrub beds. Which I can't argue with. I still plan to change the front at some point, but it's at the bottom of the priority list right now, so I am stuck with this square bed.

Actually last year, after placing perennials and filling in with annuals, I was happier with the bed, than I am now. I got carried away with winter sowing last year and OMGosh, to describe what went wrong, I just had to count how many Shasta Daisies I put in that bed...ten! LOL My first time trying shastas, and I was not prepared for how fast and large they grew. They were supposed to be dwarfs. Wow, no wonder it was so crowded there this year. I didn't even have room for one annual that I could add! On top of which, I've discovered I don't enjoy Shasta daisies. :-) I've already ripped out most of them.

Funny, you should suggest the diagonal placement, I was just reading an article in Fine Gardening, recommending the same thing. So, if I break the square up into two triangles the long sides of the two triangles would both be in the middle, diagonally dissecting the square bed, right? So on what side of the triangle would you try to add the taller plants? The diagonal line would either run from NW to SE or NE to SW. Street is on the East side of the square and house on the West.

Ostrich...sounds like your methods are working for you. I'm not the one digging and moving, DS is and he is rolling his eyes every time I want to move 'again'. [g]

Mad Gallica....you are right, that is what I need to do. I will have to give it more of a try than I usually do and see how it works out.

Bonnie....I am with you, I do love experimenting and trying new combinations, now if I could just have a full time garden helper to do all the moving, I would be all set. :-)

Thank you.. :-)
pm2

I agree that small beds (especially narrow ones like a few of mine) are challenging. The best advice that I can give you is to try to be loose about it so that you can enjoy it rather than stress over it.

I've also read the FG article about narrow bed planting since I have one that is a real challenge.

Have you looked through some of the online plans for ideas? I'm not suggesting copying those to a T, but rather look at some of the arrangements. Even some of the online plant retailers, have "garden collections" where they show a labeled planting scheme.

I don't worry as much about height of plants as I should. Partly because even some taller blooming perennials get deadheaded and are shorter. Also, I have 3-5 foot tall perennials right beside a path here and there to break up the edging!

I start with vignettes of companions within a larger bed and then build outside that "circle" with complimentary perennials/annuals/bulbs/shrubs/grasses. In other words, pick 3 plants that you love that work together---no more than that. Make those a focal point, then work OUT from that vignette.

For example, I've got 3 spirea 'Neon Flash' (3x3 each) in a triangle. These are flanked by two groupings of 3 echinacea 'Ruby Star'. These 9 plants form a circle within the larger border (on a slope). I then selected other perennials that work with those to accent the grouping (like monarda 'raspberry wine' or phlox 'Robert Poore' or nepeta 'Candy Cat')

I then move out from that main vignette and use complimentary plants that like the same growing condition.

Since my border is large, I then move over to my next focal point and try to tie the two groups together with perennials that work with both. I still don't have this the way I want it, but I know what I want to move this fall and put in the place of the offending perennials! Tweaking like you would when you decorate a room...adding/subtracting accessories or moving furniture around.

I hope this helps. Just enjoy it! Build around your #1 favorite plant.

Here is a link that might be useful: my garden

I plant what I like where I think it will look good, and move it if it doesn't work out. I don't worry about sun requirements too much until a plant starts to look bad or not bloom. Because of this my garden is a little chaotic and overgrown, but I like that look. When I'm designing a new bed I'll try to follow the recommended spacing, but some things get bigger or smaller than the tag says so I have to fill in with other plants or move them around. I try to start with some sort of theme and then add to the edges.

Typically you plant tall in back, medium in middle, shortest in front. Not always practical if your bed doesn't work that way. Not all plants will work everywhere as you found out. Some things will get shaded as the sun moves around, but that's OK, it won't usually hurt them. There's no secret formula. If you find tall plants on the sides are blocking those in the middle, use shorter plants. Perhaps in your situation if you get that much sun, you can use taller plants in the middle because as the sun rotates around the bed, everything will eventually get sunlight. Where the sun is at its weakest point, use part-sun plants that can take shade. Maybe you're trying to cram too many full sun plants in and you're not getting equal amounts of light as you think. Plants will fill up the space you give them, so you will always have to thin things out if it starts to get crowded. No avoiding that.

I decide how many rows of plants will fit in the width of my bed. This depends on what plants i decide to use. My beds are viewed from 3 sides.I have a split rail fence down the middle of the bed. I think i have 3-4 ft. on each side of the fence.6-8 ft. in total. I usually use two rows of plants staggered in a triangle two at the back (Taller) and one in front (shorter), this usually has a more pleaseing look and i try to plant spring, summer, fall, in that group of three. Its not always successful but it works well for me. Hope that helps abit.........mark

PM, my DH was also a lawn-o-phile, but I know that if he was still with me I could have eventually talked him into the lawn removal.In his case however, the lawn stuff was his only outdoor chore-I did everything else from tree pruning to gutter cleanout, so the lawn going bye-bye would have been less work for himm ! The other advantage is that my garden actually takes less water than a lawn which is an issue for us.

As for the diagonal, I would have the tall stuff on the north or NE quadrant, so they would not throw shade. My corner garden(the one I did with annuals this year) is in full sun almost all day;the direction is a moot point.I know you've probably seen this pic before , but the fence which is behind all the stuff on the right , is North, and the plants all face South.As you can see I have the tall stuff in the back (most of the time !)

{{gwi:260577}}

Kathy in Napa

Cameron your garden is just lovely! I love that pink Crepe Myrtle, it is stunning and such a focal point. Also enjoyed photos showing the roses, lavender and dianthus all blooming together. Very pretty. How long are they in bloom for you? I also see you have a lot of butterfly bush varieties. Which is your favorite? Which is the neatest looking?

The suggestion for looking at online plans was one I had not thought of. I never look at those, but skip over them when I see them in catalogs too. That might be helpful.

I had read a post on the Design forum offering that advice once, about making groups of three and working out from there and I was going to use that approach once I decided where the tall plants were going and what my final plant list was. That sounds very workable.

Athenianwi...I hear you! lol It is very freeing to just buy what appeals to you and just not worry about all the different variables. My problem is I enjoy some order in the garden too which pulls me to keep tinkering too much. :-)

Nancy...Planting in the middle with plants around the edges that don't require full sun is another way to go. I do try to cram too many sunlovers, because I have so little full sun.

Thorn grower....That is a good visual for me too. I was noticing when I was trying to find out the eventual width of a plant, it is not always easy to find. Height is given more often. A lot of plants I want to use are two feet wide, so I could just figure how many rows of plants that would fit in my space. Not that I would plant in rows, but I would end up with the right amount of plants perhaps. Nice idea to represent all the different seasons in each grouping too.

Kathy....I hadn't thought about the water use factor there in California. That would be a great argument for giving the lawn the heave ho...lol. GREAT photo! I think I have seen a photo like this one but not exactly this one. Everything looks wonderful and seems to be getting it's own sunlight. Lilies and Roses...two of my favorites but two that seem to be the hardest for me to grow. You are so lucky! You do a great job with them. I love that blue obelisk. Do you have it all planted diagonally? I was outside looking at my front yard and the Northeast corner would work right for the tall plants. The diagonal placement looks like I can make that work well too and I may even change the edge of the bed on one side.

This has been really helpful and I don't feel stuck anymore. Thanks for sharing your gardening approaches!

:-)
pm2

PM2 -- my favorite buddleia for color is 'Pink Delight'. But, I also like the smaller size and the blue/purple color of 'Adonis Blue'.

I cut back my buddleia severely in March. I've decided to start cutting them back severely in the last week of June, too. Long story, but a storm almost blew a few tall ones out of the ground, so I had to severely cut them back to almost half-size back in early July. Talk about deadheading! LOL They are now the best looking, blooming buddleia in the garden!

Really interesting Cameron...I have a Pink Delight that is in it's first season and I was surprised that it was not a deeper pink. I was expecting the deep pink that your photo of Royal Red looked like. Are all your Butterfly Bushes equally fragrant? I was considering buying another but I really want to make sure it is fragrant. That is interesting about having cut them back by half in early July...that is just a few weeks before mine usually start blooming. If you can take a photo of the difference, I would be fascinated.

I would love to use butterfly bush in the front yard, but since they prefer to be cut back in the spring, that leaves a bare shrub all winter that is a little too casual for the front.