Diane, I'm practically in tears myself. It's beyond me how anyone can look at anything that is so beautiful and then proceed to destroy it. It must have taken years for that rose to reach that large a size. And how unforgivable for the owner to have allowed this to happen.

"Gardening" crews? I'm convinced the majority of them know absolutely nothing about real gardening. They can mow and blow and shape bushes into small squares with barely any leaves left on them, but to expect any more of them is pie in the sky. Most of us have had sad experiences with these people, but what happened to your rose is outrageous. I'm so angry on your behalf. Hopefully the rose will grow back, however long that will take. It might be a good idea to build it a barbed wire cage!

Ingrid

Thank you Ingrid. I knew GW people would understand why I'm so upset.

I agree with you that most of these crews know nothing about gardening and shouldn't be allowed near plants.

Barbed wire sounds like a good idea.

Diane

Horrible.
Awful.

I wonder -- did the owner request that?

Our neighbors across the Lane hired a new crew (probably cheaper than the last ones) of "blow and go" guys. (I won't call them gardeners.)

They proceeded to shorten the handsome old eugenia hedge in front of their house by about 18 inches. (That hedge has been there for minimum 50 years, and was the former owner's pride and joy.) It now looks like it was attacked by a herd of brontosaurus -- lolloping up and down in unruly waves, with the stubs of tree stumps sticking out the top.

Not only do WE get to look at the mess . . . Their daughter is getting married in about a month, and that mutilated hedge will greet all of their fancy guests. The Bride's Mother had a purple cow.

Serves 'em right, for hiring people who are not plantsmen.

Jeri

Oh, Diane. I am devastated! If our world doesn't slow down, prioritize, take great care, appreciate what is beautiful,.... Roses are living things, for gosh sakes! An old specimen of 'ASG' is a treasure to be cherished.

Don't even get me started on landscaping crews that are "landscaping crews." And don't get me started on lawns and the odd landscaping that accompanies the odd craving for lawns. If I had a dollar for every old rose that has been hacked down in the name of "landscaping," I'd be finacially stable!

My husband owns a small landscaping company. Unfortunately, non-gardening home owners hire him to remove beautiful and ancient specimens of roses on a regular basis. When he can, he rescues them, and now I have a garden full of adopted roses! Sometimes owners start hacking at their plants before my husband and his crew arrive. Sometimes owners insist on shearing and butchering in the face of all my husband's protests. Sometimes owners become educated about the value of their garden gems and grow to appreciate what was once foreign to their eyes.

I am sharing my box of tissues with you.

Carol

This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Fri, Jun 21, 13 at 18:11

Double post deleted.

This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Fri, Jun 21, 13 at 18:06

I agree that whacking that plant was unfortunate, Diane, but there COULD be extenuating circumstances. There has been a monstrous Banksiae lutea on the front of the house and on the garage roof here for decades. I have just butchered it back to thick, main trunks and cut out a tremendous amount of bamboo for two reasons. First, the Fire Dept. alerted me that while we passed fire mitigation for high fire danger area this year, the rose on the roof would NOT pass next year. Second, there was a huge rat's nest in the tangle of bamboo and Banksiae several feet over the garage roof. I finally found it. I'd trapped FIVE of the monsters out front in the electronic trap and I was tired of the "game". Every piece of both plants which could be ground into mulch was, with as little as possible going to the trash, but now there is NO rats nest and at least that part of the yard WILL pass next year's fire mitigation regulations. That leaves me with a few other areas to tackle before then, but that one is finished.

In the old Newhall garden, Fedtschenkoana had developed into a very large colony of fairly upright canes. A large rat continued building her nest right in the middle of the stand. I poisoned the nest, I flooded it with tremendous amounts of water. I did everything I could think of (including some I won't incriminate myself by admitting to) to that nest to rid the stand of that danged rat. I finally had to whack the thing to the ground to remove the nest to get rid of it. Rats LOVE large roses for nest building. Particularly prickly ones as they provide an easy and very secure place to build. Who knows if there were rat issues, fire issues or what other issues the owner had to deal with? Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Fri, Jun 21, 13 at 19:18

Well, that's a good thing to mention, Kim. There may be extenuating circumstances (it would have to be an outright looming disaster, however, to get me to cut my beloved -- and currently gorgeous with its 2nd flush -- ASG like that!). Worthy of tears, then, but maybe for a reason.

On the other hand, due to the observed incompetence of all but an extremely select few of the "mow-and-blow" outfits that pass as gardeners these days, nobody touches my garden but me, and that includes earth-moving, rock-wall building, and pruning and felling of anything but the large trees. If my ASG needs to be hacked back, it will be me doing it and there will be a reason.

This could serve as what we call in ecology a "natural experiment" (but substitute "accidental" for "natural" and it's a bit more honest..). Will be interesting to see how that plant fares in the future, don't you think, Diane?

Maybe slip poor mutilated ASG some fertilizer and a big hit of water when nobody's looking?

It might make both of you feel better.

Seeing ASG big and bawdy again would be the best form of peaceful revenge I can think of.

Mow&blow are not landscapers, much less gardeners. Most landscapers are not gardeners. Most gardeners don't know much about OGRs, but the good ones have sense enough to ask when they see something they don't recognize. Caveat emptor. The first couple people I haired for a bit of help weed-whacked several roses. Now, if I have to hire any help, I make it very clear that any damage to any rose will cost the price of replacement plus $50 for every year of the first five years it has been in the ground and $100/yr thereafter. I make them sign a contract. I don't lose too may roses now.

Hoovb
What a great idea! I second the suggestion.

Catsrose
You're no fool! Yet another stroke of genius.

Kim
So sorry about the rose removal. Alas, rats and risk of fire. What can you do but acquiesce?

Carol

Catsrose Said:
"Most landscapers are not gardeners. Most gardeners don't know much about OGRs, but the good ones have sense enough to ask when they see something they don't recognize. "

Catsrose is right.
Call me naive, but I just THOUGHT that landscapers knew about plants. I suppose some do, but most of them know about DESIGN, but not really about plants. (So, if you find one like Mr. Catsrose -- GRAB HIM! He's a treasure.)

As for the Mow/Blow jerks who work around here ... most of them don't know much at all, and aren't much good for anything other than mowing lawns.

Gardeners who really are knowledgeable about roses are a rare treasure, and I hope they get paid accordingly.

Jeri

on the lighter side, I am still giggling about "my" gardener who trimmed a ficus to look like an ice cream cone in the front yard of his boss. Looks more like an ad for a diamond shaped blue pill. (and has lasted longer than four months to grow back)

I guess I'm the opposite. I dislike the overgrown//unkept look.
From what I gather, people tend to complain about a rose getting so large and unruly canes - yet they never pruned it?

Correct me, because I do not have the experience. Share your knowledge with others like me.
Yes, I do appreciate the rarity and the many lost roses.

I attended a talk given by Mike Shoup, from The Antique Rose Emporium. I recall him saying that roses loved to be pruned.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I know this post's rant is about severe pruning without regard.

But, it is my opinion that many of you underestimate the knowledge of the crews that cut your grass. If you ever get the chance to talk to them, many are knowledgeable about the medicinal uses of many herbs, plants, & trees. I did not say roses, but who knows, right?

I used to work with MANY "mow-blow-goers" both in a landscape company and in nursery settings selling to them. There are some who know their stuff, but they are the exceptions in my experience. You also have the situation where the people doing the hacking KNOW better but aren't permitted to do what's right.

A lady I've known for over thirty years works at a Green Thumb I frequent. She got hired by the city of Long Beach as part of their grounds crew for public works. She was 'accosted' by a gentleman in a park as she was cubing a Morea. The gentleman went off on her about destroying the plant and all she could say was she was doing as she was ordered. The man in charge of park maintenance hates Moreas and wanted them all cubed. You do what you're told if you want to keep the paycheck. Kim

mauvegirl,
I doubt anyone would argue here about your right to enjoy a well-groomed garden. What folks are talking about on this thread is the difference between maintenance and massacre. My one experience with a mow and blow crew in Italy was when they cut down my clematis, hellebores, and bulbs and tilled the ground that had been invaded by Bermuda grass, thus spreading it through the entire area. That was enough for me; since then no one has done detail work in my garden but myself (DH does most of the heavy jobs).
About pruning, different roses have different requirements. Some like hard pruning, some hate it; different roses have to be pruned in different ways, some with canes shortened, some with old canes removed to the base, at more or less frequent intervals. My principal is to prune a rose for best health and vigor first, then for shapeliness and beauty. Roses are selected for beauty, after all, so if properly pruned and otherwise well maintained they'll look good. A given rose in its beauty--looking its best self--may or may not please a given gardener; this is where personal tastes come in. A rose grown to be its best self may be lovely to me and may look messy to you; or may be beautiful to you and look stiff and artificial to me. And that's fine: our growing what we love is what makes all our gardens different from each other and increases variety in the world. I'm all for that.
I was puzzled about your comments about the plant knowledge of many garden maintenance people, and then found a point of contact with my own experiences gardening here in Italy. A lot of hired gardeners here have experience farming or growing food plants (vegetable gardens, fruit trees). These guys do know a good deal about growing plants. The problem is that they only know what they know, and aren't aware that there's more to the picture. They're rigid: they don't realize that their methods and goals don't necessarily apply to ornamental gardening, or that there are other methods than the ones they know, or that the way they've always pruned roses doesn't work for all the roses in the world. And so on. So there may be some of this going on with maintenance guys. But the experiences I read about on this forum make me suspect there are plenty of guys doing maintenance that don't know, or care, squat about plants.
Melissa

If the landscaping crew is paid by the job, as is often the custom, they will want to get through the job as fast as possible so as to be able to go do the same at another yard for another few hundred bucks in the same day.

Maybe if you need to hire outside help, consider paying by the hour and offering a bonus at the end of the job if you are satisfied.

In my experience working with landscape crews, and unknowledgeable homeowners, too, most feel that roses are roses are roses ... one thing to do to them, cut them down to knee high. Roses like that, don't they.

The rose will probably grow back, though it will take years to get anywhere close to the mature size and shape that it had before its haircut.

The hardest part of this story for me is this: do we know that this wasn't what they were instructed to do by the owner of the rose? If it was, there's nothing to be done. If it wasn't, it's up to the homeowner to take it up with the crew and their supervisor. We rose people can only sit back and cry.

Nastarana

A wonderful suggestion! Roses are living things, but landscapers are too. :-)

Carol

Nice insight melissa_thefarm
You are right about mostly being farm related.
From generation to generation, knowledge regarding herbs, vegetables, farming have been passed. I am a city girl.
Schools here teach you 0 of this unless you are in the
agriculture program. The art of farming is becoming lost (as is the roses).

Maybe, it's an old belief to heavily prune to invigorate growth and shape.

On a side note, I see how very expensive mature trees, palms, are. In Texas, "teenage" Italian Cypress, Queens Palm, Crepe Myrtles are pricey.

p.s. I adore Buddleias and Liatris wildflowers Buddleias get quite large and unruly. I have both in my garden.

This post was edited by mauvegirl8 on Sat, Jun 22, 13 at 14:44

We are rare in our area -- no "crew" cuts our grass. But I have had plenty of opportunity to observe the "crews" that do a weekly "mow and blow" here -- and I've watched them as well in other places.

"Crews" of which even a minority know anything about plants are a terrifying minority. Sorry. In this area, if you can buy a mower, you are a Hired Gardener.

And, no. Not all roses, in all places. "love to be pruned."

God bless the rare, precious true gardener who knows the difference.

Jeri

several years ago my friend called to tell me about a beautiful rose that perfumes the whole parking lot where her DH works---then a couple weeks later she called very distressed because they were enlarging the parking area and she thought the rose would be destroyed---so I rushed over to get some cuttings and sure enought the very next day the rose was gone

here is my roses that I call "Yardville Supply" for the Co.
{{gwi:206003}}

I just noticed the date---this was 10 years ago
Florence

several years ago my friend called to tell me about a beautiful rose that perfumes the whole parking lot where her DH works---then a couple weeks later she called very distressed because they were enlarging the parking area and she thought the rose would be destroyed---so I rushed over to get some cuttings and sure enought the very next day the rose was gone

here is my roses that I call "Yardville Supply" for the Co.
{{gwi:206003}}

I just noticed the date---this was 10 years ago
Florence

Thanks everyone for your support.

mauvegirl8, this rose was shaped every year until now by the owners of the house. It was not unruly, just large and magnificent and was still in almost full bloom when chopped.

catspa, I'll be watching this rose every day. My concern now is that the homeowners will realize what a mess they allowed and remove the rose completely. If/when I see the owner I certainly intend to ask him why this happened.

Kim, eek rats? Somehow I wish I didn't know that as I plan to grow a line of large roses along the southern side of our house.

Florence, what a gorgeous rose. So glad you rescued it.

Diane

Florence, that rose is a treasure. How wonderful that you cared enough to rescue it, and it has certainly repaid you beautifully.

Ingrid

Wonderful rescue, Florence!

Carol

Golly Florence, that is SPECTACULAR.

That is Rose Rescue at its finest.

Jeri

Mauvegirl, no one in their right mind would 'prune' a rose that was in full bloom. I recently had to cut down my Reve d'Or that was about to bloom because it was blown off its arbor by a storm. Several of my neighbors saw me doing it and stopped to ask why. It killed me to do it, but I had no choice.

As Jeri said, not all roses love to be pruned and certainly not from 12 feet to 2 feet. This is not a rant against manicured gardens. It's a rant against mow and blow crews, but really more towards the clue less people that hire them. I will not allow them in my yard.

Well-stated, Buford.

Jeri

You bet me to it Jeri, was about to say the same thing myself then your post popped up.

Thank you, Buford.

Diane

I have "mow and blow" guys in to do the yard, but they know better than to touch ANYTHING in the flowerbeds, lol! I must say I appreciate them, as used to do all the mowing, but at my age, and the heat we get here in Texas, plus the slopes, just couldn't do it anymore. For quite a bit of grass, they charge $25, and you can't beat that deal!

ogorose, $25-$30 is the going rate here also for an average sized suburban yard.

Most of you seem to live in California. I bet it's more expensive to have your lawn mowed and edged.

ogorose, $25-$30 is the going rate here also for an average sized suburban yard.

Most of you seem to live in California. I bet it's more expensive to have your lawn mowed and edged.

There's a reason why the word 'subhuman' is in the English language. It is properly employed when magnificent roses are needlessly butchered by beings to whom Nature is the enemy.

In Yiddish, we have the word 'paskudnyak'. It is very sparingly used, and reserved for only the most evil and detestable sorts. In the case of a pack of yutzim destroying a twelve-foot Alister Stella Gray, I'd add an accelerator. A person who would destroy such a venerable and beautiful rose would be a farschtinkineh paskudnyak.

This post was edited by plan9fromposhmadison on Sat, Jun 22, 13 at 23:16

We don't not have gardeners because we can't afford them. We don't have them because we don't want them messing with our plants.

And the way things are going with water, we won't have grass to mow anyhow.

Jeri

I know folks here in the San Fernando Valley who have "lawn services" for as little as $40 a month for an average size front and rear lawn. That gets them once weekly mow, weed whack edging and blow, which usually only requires about twelve to fifteen minutes a week. I'm actually surprised how many feel no guilt at requesting special work or "favors" which require more time and don't think it should require more PAY. The one here became obsolete when it became too much work for him to blow off the decks and walks weekly. He always "forgot" something, though he was WELL paid. Now things get swept. I don't use blowers. My allergies don't "DO" blowers. Kim

plan9fromposhmadison, thanks for the Yiddish. I needed a laugh. And Plan 9 from Outer Space is high on my list of favorite insane films.

Kim, as far as I'm concerned, anyone using one of the blowers should be jailed for noise and environment contamination.

Diane

I agree with you, Diane. I know when the neighbors' gardeners will be there and make sure all of my north facing windows are closed when they are expected. I have nearly given up washing my truck. I have to park on the street because the street is collapsing and needs re engineering. Instead, the City keeps adding more pavement to the surface so when it rains, the water overflows the curb and runs down the drive, through the garage, work room and once, into the kitchen. So, to prevent the issue, there is a HUGE mounded "speed bump" of concrete which has to be traversed at a sharp, 45 degree angle to get IN to the drive. My truck won't fit. The car does. I wash the truck, some blower jockey blows the street and my truck is trashed. It's almost just not worth it. Kim