Still not seeing any specific information about how you have managed to avoid the mis-labeling that prevails generally, including in Europe. What steps have you taken to verify each accession? Where you are located is not proof that each plant is the real thing. Taking the naming of newly acquired stock on faith, without critical examination is a big part of the problem of numbers of mis-labeled plants being disseminated. A common argument for questionable stock being true-to-name is who it came from, the assumption being that the party providing the stock just wouldn't ever have something with the wrong name - rather than genuinely validating information like its diagnostically significant structural features, or its documentation showing it is derived from the original introduction. And theoretically in some cases even if there is evidence the plant came from the nursery that introduced the cultivar it would be possible to get the wrong item, due to the same labeling mixups and other occurrences common to large operations in particular. Sometimes a series of similar clones will be introduced and named at the same time or during the same period of years.

Hi Dax, Abies alba (Good I assume) - yep, should be reasonably OK Abies balsamea (Not Bad, Good) ? - yep, suffers from heat/dry soil Abies beshanzuensis (never heard of it) - probably zone 7 Abies borisii-regis (of the better) - yep, should be good Abies bracteata (don't know anything) - zone 8 Abies cephalonica (seen some good ones around here) - yep, should be good Abies chengii (know nothing) - dubious, but maybe worth a try. Probably a natural hybrid between Abies forrestii and A. chensiensis Abies chensiensis ssp. chensiensis (Asian species - but good I imagine) - worth a try, with hardiest northern origins Abies chensiensis other subsps - not hardy in zone 5 Abies cilicica (good - zone 6 though I think) - agree likely zone 6, but might be worth trying Abies concolor (real good - they're everywhere) - yep Abies concolor subsp. lowiana (decent I presume?) - dubious, probably zone 6/7 Abies delavayi (and its' subspecies - zone 5 - ???) - no, zone 8, and also demanding cool, extremely wet monsoon summers Abies densa (don't know anything) - no, zone 8, and also demanding cool, extremely wet monsoon summers Abies durangensis (?) - zone 7 Abies durangensis var. coahuilensis (?) - zone 7 Abies durangensis var. durangensis (?) - zone 7 Abies fabri (?) - no, zone 7, and also demanding cool, extremely wet monsoon summers Abies fabri ssp. fabri ? Abies fabri ssp. minensis ? Abies fanjingshanensis ? - no, zone 8, and also demanding cool, extremely wet monsoon summers Abies fargesii - zone 5, but needs cool, wet summers Abies fargesii var. fargesii Abies fargesii var. faxoniana Abies fargesii var. sutchuenensis Abies firma (I think this would be good but zone 6 which really doesn't mean anything to me anymore - whatcha think) - might be worth a try, but don't be surprised if it gets winter killed Abies forrestii - no, zone 7, and also demanding cool, extremely wet monsoon summers Abies forrestii var. ferreana Abies forrestii var. georgei Abies forrestii var. smithii Abies fraseri (should do decenty well I presume) - short-lived, needs cool summers Abies georgei (Zone 6 - ??? croak or not) = A. forrestii Abies grandis ("I don't think so") - interior (Idaho, eastern WA) origins should do well; avoid coastal origins Abies guatemalensis - zone 8/9 Abies guatemalensis var. guatemalensis - zone 8/9 Abies guatemalensis var. jaliscana - zone 8/9 Abies hickelii - zone 8/9 Abies hickelii var. hickelii - zone 8/9 Abies hickelii var. oaxacana - zone 8/9 Abies hidalgensis - zone 7/8 Abies holophylla - yep, should be good Abies homolepis (Good one) - probably good, though likes fairly cool summers Abies homolepis var. homolepis - probably good, though likes fairly cool summers Abies homolepis var.umbellata - probably good, though likes fairly cool summers Abies kawakamii - zone 7/8 Abies koraiensis (Good ?) - typo for A. koreana, delete from database!! Abies koreana (Does well) - but probably fairly short-lived Abies lasiocarpa (ok?) - but probably fairly short-lived Abies lasiocarpa var. arizonica (does very well) - yep, though may be short-lived Abies lasiocarpa var. lasiocarpa - short-lived, needs cool summers Abies magnifica - very dubious, needs cool summers Abies mariesii - very dubious, needs cool summers Abies nebrodensis (recent topic) I forget though.. - maybe zone 6, but worth a try Abies nephrolepis (Good) - but probably fairly short-lived Abies nordmanniana (The Best) - agreed Abies numidica (Zone 6 - whatcha think) - agree likely zone 6, but might be worth trying Abies pindrow seen em in protected Illinois zone 5 gardens) - doubt it, those will be wrongly labelled! Zone 7/8. Abies polita (Good one - Growing in an arboretum in Iowa) - duh?? Abies polita = Picea polita. Did you mean Abies pinsapo? - if yes, likely zone 6, but might be worth trying Abies procera (?) - very dubious, needs cool summers Abies recurvata - perhaps zone 6, but well worth trying, particularly northern origins Abies recurvata var. ernestii - perhaps zone 6, but well worth trying, particularly northern origins Abies recurvata var. recurvata - perhaps zone 6, but well worth trying, particularly northern origins Abies religiosa - zone 8/9 Abies sachalinensis - may be good but probably fairly short-lived (close relative of A. nephrolepis) Abies sachalinensis var. gracilis - ditto Abies sachalinensis var. mayriana - ditto Abies sachalinensis var. nemorensis - ditto Abies sachalinensis var. sachalinensis - ditto Abies sibirica - southern origins may do well, but perhaps short-lived. Northern origins will succumb to summer heat Abies sibirica ssp. semenovii - well worth trying (if you can find it!!) Abies sibirica ssp. sibirica - as species Abies spectabilis - no, zone 8, and also demanding cool, wet monsoon summers Abies squamata - needs very cool summers (grows at up to 4700m altitude in Tibet!!) Abies veitchii - worth a try, but probably fairly short-lived Abies vejarii - zone 7 Abies vejarii ssp. vejarii var. macrocarpa - zone 7 Abies vejarii ssp. vejarii var. vejarii - zone 7 Abies yuanbaoshanensis - no, zone 8, and also demanding cool, wet monsoon summers Abies ziyuanensis - no, zone 8, and also demanding cool, wet monsoon summers Hybrids . . . should be more or less intermediate between parents Abies x arnoldiana = A. koreana x A. veitchii Abies x insignis = A. pinsapo x A. nordmanniana Abies x phanerolepis (Good One) = A. balsamea var. phanerolepis - the most heat-tolerant form of A. balsamea Abies x shastensis = A. magnifica var. shastensis Abies x sibiriconephrolepis = A. sibirica x A. nephrolepis Abies x umbellata = A. homolepis var. umbellata Abies x vasconcellosiana = A. pindrow x A. pinsapo (though parentage unconfirmed) Abies x vilmorinii = A. pinsapo x A. cephalonica Resin

Resin, I have to beg to differ on that last comment. Red Spruce are a distinct species from Black Spruce, and while are similar are NOT the same tree. Also, Balsam Fir are pretty different from Fraser Fir. Even Canaan Fir are somewhat different from their very close relative the Balsam Fir, but they both look much closer to one another than they do Fraser firs. Seeing them in their native habitat, you can (well I can at least anyway) clearly see and tell the difference between the Fraser and Balsam firs. Similar, yes, but still fairly different. As for the OP, I would say that attempting to grow them in your climate is going to be a bit of a challenge. You saw them on the very highest of peaks in the Smokies. Typically above about 4,500 -5,000 feet or higher that far south. Here in Virginia and West Virginia, they also grow on the highest peaks of the Alleghenys / Appalachians and even a few peaks of the Blue Ride Mountains as well. However this far north they are able to grow at altitudes as low as 3,000 feet, and a few scattered stands can be found even lower than 3K feet, though they are not common. There are several reasons for this. First is the substantially cooler climate, even in summer. Where they grow the climate is so drastically different from most places that on any given summer day, it can be 90 down in the valley under 3,000 feet, but up on the high plateaus/ ridge tops it will be in the 60s/ 70s. Rarely do those ride tops see 90s, and often those ridge tops get into the 30s and 40s at night even in the hight of summer. Second is the mesic type habitat they do best in. These trees need WATER. While growing in standing water will eventually kill them, growing in high altitude wetlands, as well as open mesic environments on the high peaks is great for them. They are some of the closest trees the eastern US has to "rain forest trees" There are sections of WV, along the Allegheny front where they grow still (second growth forest except for one 150 acre tract) in fairly large tracts and numbers, but the environment is very high altitude for the east coast, is MUCH MUCH colder than most places on the east coast, and is much much wetter than anywhere on the east coast as well. Many areas where there are true Red Spruce forest receive almost as much annual precipitation as some of the temperate rain forests of the Pacific North West. The main difference being that much of the precip comes in the form of SNOW for Red Spruce. Were talking where they grow usually gets between about 150 and 200" of snow in any average winter, and has recieved 300 inches of snow annually at times. The annual liquid precip for most of the areas where Red Spruce grow exceeds 55 inches, which is considered the threshold for temperate rain forest in north America. Another thing to note about these trees is that in their native habitat the high mountain ridges they grow on are typically shrouded in coulds for a large number of days annually. Another thing to keep in mind with these trees is that when they are young, are EXTREMELY shade tolerant, and often will grow slightly better when in at least partial shade while young. In their native habitat, they are EXTREMELY hardy trees given the conditions they face: Extreme cold (20-45 below zero temps), many months of freezing, extreme high winds often on a daily basis (hurricane force sustained winds are common) as well as extreme heavy snow fall and coatings of ice for very extended periods of time ( think months on end). ALso, the soil make up where these trees grow is usually more acidic in nature. You CAN do it, but your trees will require special care, and LOTS of water. Relying solely on annual rain fall could do them in, especially if you have a drought year. One more thing to note is that they often will suffer from needle cast when taken outside of their native area. Not always, but it is fairly common. People used to dig them up in the WV highlands, and bring them home to use as landscape trees or wind break trees on farms 1-200 years or more ago, but often they ran into the same problems many at lower elevations do today, especially if you are on the close east side of a large mountain range in its "rain shadow". That said, they are quite beautiful trees. I personally prefer them to Norway Spruce as they often have a more narrow crown, at least until they get huge. While we can grow them here they are tricky even for us, and were very close to their native range. I feel very privileged to live so close (2 hours drive) from some of the best remaining Red Spruce forests south of NH / Canada. The trees you saw in the Smokies, while beautiful trees are not true solid Red Spruce forest. For that you need to go to mainly West Virginia , and even parts of extreme western VA. This is where the true Red Spruce forest ecosystem begins, and the stands are usually PURE. The highest elevations of the Monongahela National Forest, ranging from 3K feet, to 4,863 feet on WV's higest peak, Spruce Knob. If you'd like I can post some photos of that area and the native Red Spruce Forest. Just let me know.

Here you go Spruce. Photos showing preparation of Thuja hardwoods (Metasequoia had to be added/used to show this process). It's still the same. One note though: sometimes just stripping off a branch is all that is needed. Otherwise, shown, are a pair of scissors from 'The Dollar Store' being used (photos thanks to a friend). A cutting: Step two - also why scissors are easiest (as well as to collect the cuttings from the mother plants): Step three (removal of bark on a larger cutting): Removal of bark on a smaller cutting (see that the foliage has also been trimmed - this is a Metasequoia hardwood cutting which will only root as a hardwood during spring. Otherwise as a summer cutting [July 1] new growth must be used - and the same is true for Thuja) Rooted cuttings in Trademark Rootmaker Cells after they have been taken off mist: Water + Dip n' Grow rooting hormone at a rate of 1:6 respectively: A mist table for your seeing: *Note* Mist settings are adjusted to suit the weather. What you're trying to accomplish are cuttings not having large droplets of water on any of the leaf surfaces, and so the cuttings have a chance to dry, prior to the next mist. These photos are from a nursery in Ohio USA zone 5 (extreme summer heat and humidity) - this guy runs his system, averaging... a six second mist - every 6 minutes - from a 24-hour - wired clock. When the cuttings have rooted (you can lift the roots with a pocket knife to look), they go to a second mist bench... that mists the cuttings 6 seconds every hour, probably for a few weeks. I don't know exactly how long they stay on the second table. Then, they go down to the floor or are placed in a shade structure etc- and are kept watered. This process when began early spring allows for a chance to up-pot the cuttings to a large enough container, to gain enough root mass, to be overwintered successfully... (the same does apply to late June/early July cuttings) - again - in an extreme winter climate there will be enough time to establish enough of a root-system to make it thru the winter. Dax