That makes sense! I got something labeled "Chinese forget me not dwarf firmanent" in a trade, and that would be a type of cynoglossum. Thanks Carol! Kim

storygardener, They all have test dates at the end of '06 or the beginning of "07. If ALL of these seeds germinate, I'd be in big trouble!!! I'm sure I have enough for a lifetime! We go to Colorado on Tuesday to sign for our house on Wednesday...after we have a key and it is officially ours, we're going to go measure stuff and take some pictures... I'm putting together a little? bag of seeds to "toss" into the rock garden area and we'll see what I have when we move out there next year! Can't wait! glo

Gardenrod, All of us are still learning. I say often that I learn something new here every single day and it is so very true. As Diane said, we have an amazing group of people here. My attitiude is that we are much stronger/better prepared for anything as a group than any one of us ever could be alone. Besides that, who else understands our gardening obsession better than other folks similarly afflicted? Diane, I've always done the cold treatment too, but not really as part of a deliberate plan. Rather, my tiny tomato seedlings get the cold treatment when they are kicked off the lighted seedstarting shelf and moved out to the back porch to make room for other seeds I need to start. Before I started moving the plants out to the porch while they were very small, they got big and lush indoors but didn't adapt as easily once they were moved outdoors to harden off. Clearly, they'd had it easy for too long. Now that they are exposed to cooler temps earlier, they seem tougher and hardier even though not as tall and lush. Maybe this year I'll proceed with a plan and move them out when they "should be" put out for cold treatment instead of just haphazardly doing it when the plant shelf is too full and I have the urge to grow more seeds. Chandra, As others so aptly pointed out, a certain amount of exposure at a young age benefits tomatoes in ways that we may not fully understand. Plants exposed to cold treatment at a certain stage seem to produce more heavily and to perform better later on. By contrast, peppers (and I think from my observations this applies a bit more to hot peppers than to sweet peppers) that are exposed to cooler temps earlier in the year can remain stunted for a long time and unproductive for the entire season. I used to transplant peppers out into the ground at about the same time I transplanted tomatoes. I struggled for years to make sense of why my pepper plants looked fine and grew well but didn't produce heavily until fall. The tomatoes were producing just fine, so I knew there was something I didn't know and didn't understand about the conditions pepper plants needed for optimal performance. After learning about the pepper plant/temperature connection, I started holding my pepper plants inside longer and waiting to transplant them out a couple of weeks later than the tomato plants. The difference in yield was impressive. Now it is just a part of my routine. I haven't done objective testing with a control group, but I'd say that by holding the pepper plants inside longer and planting them only after the weather/soil are at the temps they like, I am harvesting twice as much as before, and I am harvesting 4 to 6 weeks earlier than before. Last year, the pepper harvest began in earnest so early that it surprised even me. My plants went into the ground in early May, and I was harvesting sweet peppers and jalapenos in mid-June. It probably did help the hot peppers somewhat that we were hot earlier in the season than usual since they thrive on heat. I just pulled out my harvest record book from last year and I harvested 10 lbs. 2 oz. of jalapeno peppers on June 15th. That is the largest early harvest of hot peppers that I've ever had. If I was not already convinced that planting peppers late was a useful technique, last year's June harvest convinced me. I use two fans for circulation in the guest room where I keep my seed starting shelf. The ceiling fan stays on 24/7 and then I have an oscillating fan I use to toughen up plants. The light movement of the circulating air helps the plants develop stronger, stockier stems. You know, the same thing is true of trees. Young trees that are tightly staked so they cannot bend much in the wind are weaker over their lifetime than trees that were not tightly staked or that were not staked at all. With the trees, the early exposure to real wind helps build stronger wood. By exposing our tomato plants to circulating air while they are inside, we are preparing them better for the stronger winds they'll be exposed to outdoors. As for the effect of soil temperatures on germination of seeds, the most reliable data I've ever seen is that on Tom Clothier's website. I'll find it and link it. Using his chart, you can see exactly which temperatures give the best germination rates. However, most of us have to start seeds of some types a bit earlier than the optimum temperature on his charts because we're in a constant race to "make" our garden grow and produce before the high summer heat shuts it down. Carrots, for example, sprout quickly in very warm to hot soil, but grow poorly in it. So, we have to settle for lower germination rates and slower germination times so that our carrots can grow during the time when soil and air temperatures are optimal for them. Finally, much of what I know/understand about soil and air temperatures and their effect on vegetable plant growth and production I learned from Dr. Cotner's book. Before his book came out, I understood that some crops go into the ground earlier and some later but didn't truly understand exactly how temperatures affect growth and performance. I still have to refer to his book to doublecheck the temperatures various veggies need, but at least now I know enough to check the book for his recommendations instead of blindly following the calendar, or just "guessing" that a particular vegetable can go into the ground at a certain time. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Effect of Temperature on Seed Germination

The robbin has returned home all fat and chirpy. I want to thank all who participated and kept her hopping along. Special thanks to Tina who started, planned and provided the start up seeds. The robbin would have not existed without her. I just took a quick look at the contents and want to especially thank those who sent me special thank you seeds. That was a very nice and unexpected surprise. I'll find special places for them. I already had special plans for the snow man marigolds and they are SO cute. I'm starting those seeds today. Thank you thank you!!! A super special thanks too to whoever put in the Anasazi beans. What a treat. Now questions: 1) How do you start the 4 o'clocks. I have "just planted them" twice and never got anything. Tell me what to do so that the third time will be the charm Any tips or clues on the "formosa lilies"? It says constant moisture, like at the edge of a pond or just moist with good drainage??? Or whatever???? 3)Was there anything in there that you were really wanting but did not take???? If it came home, chances are excellent that you can still have it. Just let me know. Thanks again to all Beth