'Waterfall' and 'Viridis' will be the same color throughout the summer as they are now. Fall color should be a vivid golden orange-red. And they are most likely to stay within your height requirements - the others will either get too large or have issues with lots of sun.

but for bloodgood .... i can NOT grow JM's in my z5 MI ...

all depends on your micro climate ...

in other words.. i dont know if i would go busting the checkbook on a big one ... but that is your decision ..

ken

Ken,
I have had a beautiful red laceleaf JM in my front yard for three years now although it is a little sheltered by the house. That being said, almost everyone in my neighbourhood has one and most seem to be doing well so I think our micro climate works well for JM.

Thanks for the feedback gardengal. Any other cultivars of JM that I should consider?

that fits in with my 'suburbia cement and asphalt retaining heat and actually making you other than a zone 5' theory ...

in livonia [suburban detroit, like the poster, if i recall] .. under said theory.. i grew them like weeds ...

out here in farm land in adrian MI [60 miles SW of detroit] .... terminal ... giant corn/soybean fields where the winds blow like mariah .... what a hoot .. check out the link .... but i digress ....

obviously .... the success of the general hood.. indicates it is not really your issue ....

never forget.. zone is ONLY minimal winter temp .... which is no problem for the JM in z5 ...

it is the hard spring frost.. freezes.. or warm weeks in the middle of winter [not this winter.. brrr....] .. that causes the damage ... and that is where the heat of pavement.. helps moderate suburbia ... in spring .. under my unproven theory ...

have fun ....

ken

even better sound at this link ... boy this dude could sing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCgLNuXSaSc&feature=related

Here is a link that might be useful: obscure PAINT YOUR WAGON link .. clint eastwood was in the movie when he was a baby ....

omg ken ROFL

you are nuts...i love it

i have viridis and it is stunning...i know, i live in indy, not michigan...but that's my two cents.

oh, here is a third cent...dont try to grow sango kaku

Viridis has nice form but color seems fairly plain green atleast to me.

The nurseryman insists that autumn moon grows so slowly in MI that size will not be a problem. He says its only an issue in the places like Oregon (where they get their stock from) where the climate is more conducive.

Besides the Bloodgood & Viridis already mentioned, I have Ogon Sarasa & Inaba Shidare which have seen -17 and a Beni Hoshi that's seen -20 all without skipping a beat. On the flip side Lemon Lime Lace died this past (mild) winter and Bronzewing had die-back on the branches covered with snow while the exposed top is fine (don't know why that is).

tj

If you can find it, you might want to try 'Villa Taranto' - this is a linearilobum type with very narrow, deeply lobed foliage in a range of color. Some purple, some red, some green and some in between :-) Fall color is a golden yellow with some red. This is a pretty shrubby little guy, often with multiple 'trunks', and should stay within your height requirements. Would be a great textural contrast to the larger leafed red maple.

The shirasawanums and japonicums are more cold tolerant than palmatums and I'd have a hard time expecting an 'Autumn Moon' would grow so slowly that it wouldn't easily exceed 6-8 feet in about 10 years......unless you found some tiny little 1' specimen :-) Mine grown in a container is easily 6'+ tall after about 5 years from a 1G plant originally. Expect 6-12" annually.

Too late! I went back for a second look and bought a 3 ft tall autumn moon. Couldn't resist, just had to have it. If it grows faster than expected, I have another potential spot I could move it to before it gets too big. Will post some pics once its planted.

I had an 'Autumn Moon' for several years and really enjoyed it during the summer. The Fall color didn't measure up, so I gave it to my neighbor.
Mike

If I'm not mistaken, Autumn moon needs shade or it won't thrive. I considered it for my yard, but no way! Gardengal is right, you'll have more luck with maples of the species "Acer shirasawanum." There are some gorgeous examples. I saw the the most beautiful little green maple growing out in front of a house in my neighborhood yesterday on a walk. People often plant a trio of shirasawanum's because some get red, some orange and some yellow in the fall.

Below is a great link from a great nursery.

Here is a link that might be useful: Choosing the best maple for your location.

My 'Autumn Moon' is in full sun and does fine.....and it is also grown in a container. But I am pretty far north and our summer sun is not that intense. I would think the larger and faster growing 'Crimson Sentry' would cast at least some narrow shade the OP could take advantage of if necessary. 'Aureum' does tend to scorch a bit in full sun but it is indeed a paler yellow-green color compared to AM.

Unfortunately my yard is in zone 6 and has southern exposure with hot afternoon sun. I figured all of that would just be too much for the Autumn Moon tree. They do sell them around here so I know they can do well in some spots. Gorgeous tree! But not cheap if you want one of some size.

As promised here are the pics. Probably more sun than I had thought (sun till 2pm) but after a couple of days in the ground, plant has not flinched (yet). I'm more concerned about wind exposure. Won't be hard to move though......I know that JM have shallow roots but this one was in a large pot and roots only went a third of the way down......rest was loose soil.

Open to suggestions on how to populate this bed. Primarily looking for foliage plants with maybe some flowering perennials.

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I'm very into color thematic beds when you are working with great foliage. Especially w/ these two trees, you don't want to drown them in a sea of green. I would definitely plant more in groupings or drifts to complement the trees, rather than compete w/ them and make it look chaotic.

You could introduce blue to the palette and it would complement, rather than compete.

You could use various heuchera in the same color scheme and it would be stunning - caramel, southern comfort, lime rickey, etc.

You could also use some britt marie crawford ligularia - you'll have to water well the first year but they will establish great after that and have wonderful structure. Drifts of these w/ a variety of bright gold hosta would be incredible ('sea fire', even good ol' 'gold standard' to keep it affordable)...here is where you could introduce blue hosta too ('krossa regal' for height, 'halcyon' for unbeatable blue in a short, perfect shape).

If you want shrubs, you could do 'little henry' sweetspire, dwarf ninebark (new variety name escapes me).

Perhaps a well-placed boulder...?

ok, i'm done now.lol

I always thought of hostas and heuchera as shade plants so would they really do well there? Agree about avoiding green. I was thinking of dwarf barberry around the Japanese maple and something with bright foliage around the crimson maple.

Hosta are shade tolerant...not shade preferring (some exceptions to this, but not most). I have many heuchera and ligularia in full sun and if they are watered decently,they do beautifully.

The first year they might look a wee bit gnarly if you plant them during the summer but the next year, they will do great.

If you only shrubs, I would still personally recommend sweetspire over barberry. They have a much prettier habit and multi-season interest. Red stems, bright green leaves, beautiful fragrant flowers, arching habit, killer fall color

As for bright foliage, if you want something low and gold in the shrub dept, go w/ Lemon Princess spirea - only get to be 2'x2' - lime green foliage w/ light pink flowers.

If you want bright sun perennials, I really like tanacetum 'Isla Gold'.

I still think you would do well to throw blue in there - it's a great complementary cool color w/ the two "hot" colors you have. 'Elijah Blue' fescue would look beautiful and still keep a non-competing feel.

Great ideas. I think blue would be a great complement. Personally not a big fan of hostas but will keep an open mind. The fescue might be a good idea but I wonder is low lying juniper might do the same.

Never heard of tanacetum Isla gold before but it looks great in pics. I have seen a bright green upright fern in a yard not far from here. Almost lime green color in full sun. Any idea what it might be? The home itself does not look welcoming enough me to consider asking.....

Also, how well would hakone macra aureola do in full sun?

Hakone can do full sun - I have some that is doing great and that would be an excellent choice! You can see mine at the top of the falls, base of the conifer.

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You could do a blue rug fescue. Oh, speaking of that...(!) you could also look at 'Mother Lode' juniper. Yowza! I have two and they are really spectacular! Check out the link below.

The fern will cook in sun...unfortunately you can't stretch that one too much. :) If it is upright and green, probably ostrich fern. If it is limey green...? Not a clue. LOL

You could also look at some of the euphorbias..they're very cool. 'Bonfire', 'Blackbird', 'Chameleon'...there is a cool chartreuse one I can't remember the name of.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mother Lode

Stunning pics. Is that your backyard????

All great ideas. I think i will incorporate a blue hosta of some sort probably one with some white in it as well. Euphorbia first blush might be the one you were thinking about, just saw it at nursery. Thanks a lot!

thanks! yep, that's the ol' back forty. lol used to be an inground swimming pool and i went crazy, tore it out and reshaped the hole to form a 20,000ish gallon koi pond. i love it! :)

Looks like you've been holding out on the pics! Post more!

Nice Autumn Moon btw miclino.

Thanks, of course right after planting we get hit with a heat wave and I was worried about it being in too much sun so am watering it regularly this week. So far it has shrugged of 90+ degree weather and sun from morning till 3pm with ease. Now to slowly wean it off the water.....Tomorrow is 94 degrees here.

It's been like that here too, miclino...I'm watering three very large trees. Supposed to be record-breaking heat here and then finally seasonally appropriate weather. yikes!

We had 97 yesterday...broke the 1933 record.

Out of all the plants I planted this spring the only that looked suspect was the the top half of my Platanus x acerifolia 'Morton Circle'. The top half of the leaves where completely limp, this morning they started to curl and discolor. The only thing I can think of is that the heat zapped this newer growth.

Wow Ken, Really nice looking, some day maybe I'll get around to putting in a small waterfall / pond in my back rock garden. Your design is very impressive.

Jamie

Sorry, I was confused, I thought that was a photo from Ken.

Your yard looks great.

Jamie

lol...that's ok, i like ken...he can have the credit ;D

that totally stinks, whaas! any chance it will recover?

Hey, not sure. I thought it would but it still looked the same this morning. I'm thinking worst case I'll lose the leader since it would have to be cut back. I won't do so until its truly dead. It was strange that the bottom half leafed out first and the top half leafed out later...about a week ago only.

Thanks for posting pics in the other thread, looks really nice. I think I have to stop hijacking miclino's thread now!

okay, so just noticed that the base of the tree (which is exposed to morning sun) has split bark right at the bottom and exposed "white flesh) underneath. Should I protect the trunk from sun somehow? Tree appears otherwise healthy at this time.

Well here are some pics. The first is from when it was put in ground about 3 weeks ago

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After three weeks note the color change. Leaves look healthy.

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Closeup of the split in bark at base. Nursery tells me to not worry as long as split is not at the graft.
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Is it a split or gouge?
Could an animal have done this?
Is the rootflare at groundlevel? Looks a bit like a telephone pole.

Unless you suspect animal damage I'd leave it. Wrap the trunk early fall (sun and animal protection).

well... there is one more tree on the "want" list, thanks miclino ;-)

Thanks whaas. I don't think its animal damage.

j0nd03....I don't blame you. Love this latest acquisition of mine. The picture does not do it justice. The upper leaves have taken on a fantastic red tinge from the sun. No sign of burning from full sun till 3pm either. Although I would probably be more cautious in zone 7.

I have a great place off the back patio (northern exposure) that would get around 5 hours sun. I was thinking about putting a bed for shade loving/tolerant plants back there and I just found my standout ;-) Thanks!

Oh and feel free to post close up pics of those gorgeous leaves if you can find the time!!!

whaas, the rootflare is at groundlevel. In fact, if you look closely, you can see that the "split" extends along the root that runs horizontally and into the ground.

j0nd, will try and post some closeups tomorrow.

As promised, closeups of the foliage.

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Oh my...........

NEW...

FAVORITE..

TREE!

Looks like a decent size speciman for your area?

I've now been told by several sources that Acer shirasawanum is one of THE most hardy of the JMs yet you don't see them often in garden centers. You see many more Acer palmatum...at least around here.

I plan to get a 'Moonrise' next spring. Possibly a 'Bashful' as well since its a little more dwarf.

whaas. The nursery I got this from has numerous varieties of JMs but seemed to have lots of autumn moon in particular. In fact this was the smaller cheaper size, they had larger sizes for sale.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'm posting one more pic. Only because I see additional crack forming in the bark. I wonder if its because the tree is exposed to morning sun as well as afternoon sun? Is it possible the trunk being directly exposed to sun in the morning (as opposed to afternoon when its shaded by leaves) is causing this to happen? I can see atlease two additional splits forming in bark and they are all on the side of trunk facing morning sun. That being said, I just realized I haven't really looked at the other side of the tree.............

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