I can say how good the blade is for pushing snow as it hasnt snow for ages, and even then its was immeasurable.

But I can say that with AGs on the 312 will push quite a decent amount of dirt. Idealy it needs to be losened up a bit or the blade jams sometimes.
You might need a bit more weight to push a full blade, and if you are blading in the damp (when it pushes best) you will need AGs

Will a plow from a C-120 fit a 315?

Mailman, I'm not an expert on WH blade interchangeability but based on what I've learned so far, you may need to change the lever and indexing cable. A model number from the blade would reduce some of the guess work. Who knows...the blade may be an older or newer model that was adapted to fit the C-160.

-Deerslayer

Model number 86-42BC01
Thanks Deerslayer!

I did some research on the toro/Wheel Horse site and I figured out that it will fit. Thanks!

Mailman, I looked at the drawings of the 86-42BC01 and the 2006 blade. The 2006 lever extends away from the tractor (I suspect for clearance). The older model's angle lever is very straight. I also noticed that the older model uses an index rod rather than a cable. It doesn't look difficult to adapt the older blade to fit your Classic. In fact, there is an adapter kit available that contains a new style lever and indexing cable.

Keep in mind that the older blade is 42" which means that at least one of your rear tires will be on some unbladed snow or the snow ridge when the blade is fully angled. That's why WH went to a 48" blade.

Congrats on your find!

-Deerslayer

Thats good to know Deerslayer. Thanks.

As many of you know, I purchased a 1995 Wheel Horse 312-8 on July 5th. I've been looking for a 48" snow/dozer blade since then. What do you think the chances would be of finding a new 1995 300 series blade in the box?

Well, I just purchased one on eBay. This isn't a newer model that will fit a 300, it is a 1995 blade!

{{gwi:339606}}

I still can't believe it!

-Deerslayer

DS...
Great find!!!! Now look for a belly-dozer blade....

I saw that one! I wanted it badly, but could not get the ok to spend that much for it. It was brand spankin' new too! Awesome!

I paid $426 for the blade. I priced a new 2006 blade locally for $699 plus $78 for a conversion kit plus sales tax...total cost $839. This is a new "in the box" 1995 blade which is more valuable than a converted 2006 blade as far as I'm concerned. I'm one happy camper!!!

-Deerslayer

Porta-shelter?
{{gwi:339607}}

Wow! Talk about a balancing act! I bet you just wanted to move it 6 inches over to the left right? ;)(but drove around with it for a half hour)

Mith, you beauty!

We should send this stuff from you and Volfandt and MaineDad to Toro and demand they keep our tractor in production.

You notice that you don't see much of this type stuff from other brands?

How much do y'all figure that weighs? I know, it's on a trailer but still!

mailman, it was just below that shed you can see in the background. Didnt move it far, but as you say, I did take it for a bit of a drive.
I dont know what you guys are like at reversing trailers, but that was one of my most challenging loads to reverse.

Agrippa, I'm not sure Toro would want to know the abuse some of us inflict on our 300s :D
I cant decide wether other brand owners are more careful, or they dont think theyre tractors are up to the job.
No idea on the weight. The shelter is sitting on 4 2x4 lenghts. With just 2 under it the 2x4s were flexing. Not the heaviest its towed, but definately the biggest!

Do you have Toro's email address, I would like to ask them about the load max on the unidrive and if it was meant to handle duals (getting some funny noises, not sure if it is suffering from overloading or if I have ground the gears one too many times, that said, it still works fine.)

I looked but did not see an email address for questions like that. They may NOT want to have to answer questions like that.

Mith, Toro's address is embedded in code so I can't post a link. To contact Toro, click on "Homeowner" on the Toro home page. The last menu item is "Solutions Center", click on it. "Contact Us" is in the lower right hand corner of the screen.

The Uni-Drive tranny was made in 4 pinion and 8 pinion versions. Check the tranny drawings for your tractor model at the Toro site. The 4 pinion trannys are not rated for ground engaging attachments, the 8 pinion trannys are. BTW, you can add 4 additional pinions to a 4 pinion tranny.

-Deerslayer

Deerslayer,
You ought to get a job over there at Toro/Wheel Horse. You are a wealth of information!

Agrippa, that may be the case. I guess its all down to liability.

Deerslayer, what mialman said, get a job with them, and sell those classics again! :-D
I dont have model or serial nos for my tractor, they have come off at some time. Any idea if all 312s have either the 4 or 8 pinion, or did it change over the years.
I would probably be best topping it up to 8 pinions anyway, if it doesnt have them already.
Also, any idea what oil goes in the tranny? Mine needs a change to get the water out.

Thanks

Mith, I believe that most of the Toro 312-8 tractors were 4 pinion. Here is a drawing. The pinions are item 70. You can see the holes for 4 additional pinions in item 64.

This model tranny was rated for a snow/dozer blade and a mid-mount grader blade. However, it was not rated for a mold board plow, cultivator, etc.

-Deerslayer

{{gwi:339608}}

Mith, my 1995 owner's manual states that the tranny takes two quarts of SAE 90. You may want to check your shifter boot 49 above. Water typically enters the tranny at that point.

BTW, the info regarding 4 and 8 pinion trannys and capabilities came from a "Tractor Pulling" forum.

-Deerslayer

Good info! I'm not sure but I believe the my 856's tranny is a 4 pinion. The parts breakdown pic on Toro's site won't display so I can't tell. The item quantity shows 1....

I've read where pullers easily add 4 additional pinions to their 4 pinion trannys.

Funny, I know that I've pulled alot more weight than the 856 is rated for and it's handled most all the task's flawlessly. In the few occasions it didn't it just spun the wheels. No blown tranny or belts.

Great find Deerslayer.

Mith, now thats putting your WH to work :D

Agrippa, Several yrs ago I emailed Toro asking for some info on my 856 and told them about some of the projects it helped me do and how happy I was with it.
They mailed me a packet w/a nice letter, a copy of the owners manual, a copy of the Kohler engine owners manual and a complimentary copy of a magazine they used to put out called Wheel Horse Power. I dont know if they still put the mag out.

It's hard to understand how a tractor with such a long and impressive track record couldn't sell enough to keep it viable. Probably a combination of poor marketing and stiffer cheaper (both figuratively and monetarily) competition....

The great find a couple yrs from now will be a brand new classic thats been collecting dust in a dealers whse....

Volfandt

Volfandt, I had the same problem with the 856 drawing. However, the parts list has part# 4235 GEAR DIFF PINION Qty 4. Just for fun, I looked up the price of a 4235$82.19 per pinion.

I think that both the 8 and 4 pinion trannys can pull nearly the same load but the pinion and ring gears probably will wear out prematurely on the 4 pinion trannys under constant heavy loads. It would take one heck of a load to snap the teeth off 4 pinions or the ring gear in four places.

-Deerslayer

I agree Volfandt, I have never understood why Toro seems willing to let the tractor wither and go away.

Applying Occam's razor (simplest explanation is more likely than something complex) I tend to believe that the answer lies in the price--which is definitely a consideration, and the fact that the tractor doesn't look like newer models. Add in ignorance as to what a "meager" 15 horses can do when coupled to a stout transmission and you have poor sales.

I think it is ironic that Harley-Davidson produces a product that has yesterday's look, is slower, not a maneurverable, cost much more--but is marketed to the point that there is a waiting list to purchase one.

Most people don't know you can buy them new and most people don't know how much work they can do.

It's a crying shame.

deerslayer, at that price I can live with my 4 pinion :D

agrippa, I like the Harley analogy. I bought a brand new 1977 FXE back when everyone else was going with the 900 Kaws and 750 Hondas. I kept mine for 18 yrs and sold it for twice what I gave for for it new. I doubt theirs appreciated in value the same. Sadly, I miss it quite a bit even tho I barely rode it towards the end.....
But as you said, HD was knocking on deaths door but agreesive marketing and a sound manufacturing strategy made it what it is today, a company that produces a product that people think so much of that they tatto it's name on their bodies.....

The HD analogy also fits, albeit in a much smaller scale, in that theres quite a few enthusisit's all over. Theres many web sites dedicated to Wheel Horse tractors. Theres two very large ebay sections for Wheel Horse tractors and parts and theres even a yearly WH show/swap meet held up in PA.

I also think that Toro priced the Classic out of it's class. With all the tooling remaining virtually unchanged over the years coupled with the assembly line also remaining constant, it's hard to see why they couldn't have used the improved productivity to keep the price more in line with it's competition. I'm of the school that believes if you do something well enough long enough, you'll make a better product more economically.

Water under the bridge I rekon.

I think L&G manufacturers tried to redefine the L&G tractor into something more appealing to a younger demographic a few yrs back.

I've got an old poster from back in the 80's where Toro had a custom painted and chromed out model they produced in limited production. It wasn't a classic model but looked pretty good none-the-less.
Simplicity also cam out with a certain model that came in various college and pro footbal team colors. The grill guard looked like a face mask :D
I don't believe either sold well....

In the L&G market, price seems to beat out quality and great service...

Volfandt

Deerslayer, thanks for the info. I guess I better start looking into getting some more pinions, as I plan to use a plough, and other things.
the shifter boot broke a while back, that needs replacing. It is protected from the rain, but I reversed it into a deep ditch a while back, I think some water got in then.

Has anyone split one of these trannys, are bits going to go flying everywhere? I have the manual, it tells you exactly what to do, just not which bits are going to fall out and be lost forever.

"I think that both the 8 and 4 pinion trannys can pull nearly the same load but the pinion and ring gears probably will wear out prematurely on the 4 pinion trannys under constant heavy loads. It would take one heck of a load to snap the teeth off 4 pinions or the ring gear in four places."

Actually, you only need to break 1/2 of 1 tooth off of the ring gear or 1 pinion shaft . . . . that piece floating around will (eventually) take care of the rest - That could be the noise that Mith is hearing :eek:

Don

Don, I suspect the noise might be a tooth going around inside as you say, but I would expect it is more likely the corner of one of the gears, from shifting on the move.

I really need to split the gearbox, but need the tractor more. I'm hoping if I drain the oil I might be able to wash the metal chunks out.

Don said, "Actually, you only need to break 1/2 of 1 tooth off of the ring gear or 1 pinion shaft . . . . that piece floating around will (eventually) take care of the rest"

Good Point!

-Deerslayer

"Good Point!"

There has got to be a pun in there somewhere :-D

Gee, we are at 66 posts already. At this rate we are gunna have to ask them for our own forum :-D

FWIW...There are two good threads going on over at the Yahoo Wheel Horse Garden Tractor site about gear lube for the unidrive...."Unidrive oil" and "Gear Lube"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wheelhorsegardentractors/messages/70769?viscount=-30&l=1

The Harleys have become a 'cult' thing - They are no where near the best value for the dollar, nor are they an example of engineering excellence. The market is so skewed by their cult status that nothing about them makes much sense. Prices for used ones stay high because there is more demand for them than there are machines to fill it. Compare the price of a good used '79 Honda CBX today (about $5K to $7500) versus what they cost new (about $3K) and you'll see that engineering excellence also still sells well in this day and age. DOHC, 24 valves (4 per cylinder) and 100 shaft horsepower from a 1000 cc motor . . . . and the S O U N D ! ! - The Hondas of that era all had 5 speeds, disc brakes, overhead cams, lots of power and smoooooth engines . . . . the Harleys had none of that

Wheel Horse and Harley ARE linked in some ways though, aren't they? Were they not both owned by AMF at one point 25 or 30 years ago? I would hope the AMF era Horses are better thought of then the AMF Harleys are . . . . there was a time when you could barely GIVE those away ;-)

I would think that so long as Toro can continue to find buyers willing to shell out $4500 for a Classic, they will probably never quit making them - They must make more profit on 1 Classic than on 4 or 5 of any other tractor model they have for sale. Still, I suppose you have to sell some minimum number to even make running a separate line in the factory profitable

My next door neighbor bought a new 12 HP Horse in the early '80's and it always fascinated me. I liked the heavy duty manual blade clutch and wondered why everyone didn't offer something more along that line, but then you look at the 7 foot long blade drive belt and all the contortions they put that through and you quickly realize they had much more in mind than just mowing, as continuing to use a horizontal shaft engine for a lawn mower didn't make much sense unless they hoped to sell you a tiller, or a snowblower or some other engine driven accessory. For a belt driven deck, a vertical shaft engine made so much more sense, which is probably why nearly everyone else eventually gravitated to them

The Classics are an authentic throwback to days gone by and it's good to see them still around . . . . better to see someone willing to pay what they want for them these days - I hope they still make them 20 years from now . . . . some things just grow better with age

I think the public is looking for something more when they consider a $4500 GT purchase these days though and that alone will probably be the death knell for them. When they were $1599 new, they were a heck of a value, but at $4500 the cometition has lots more to lure buyers with than just classic good looks

Don

Here's a good article about gear oil:

Gear Oil

Here's a quote that is relevant to the Yahoo discussion.

"Sulfurized mineral oil and other highly reactive forms of sulfur have the advantage of forming protective metal films at lower temperatures than other sulfur-containing additives. On the downside, they are corrosive to certain metal and metal alloys, particularly yellow metals, which contain copper as a major alloying element.

Modern EP gear oils contain thermally stable additives that promote system cleanliness and do not corrode yellow metals under moderate operating conditions. The goal in formulating top-tier EP gear oils is to develop additive chemistries that will carry high loads under boundary conditions and protect mating surfaces from wear while minimizing corrosiveness to yellow metals and keeping steel gear components clean."

-Deerslayer

The last brand new Wheel Horse Classic has rolled off the assembly line. One of the last was auctioned off at this past yr's Wheel Horse Show/swapmeet in PA. It sported commemoritive decals, paint scheme and logo, it will probably become the most sought after Classic L&G tractor ever made in time.
Sadly unless a group of engineers (like Harley D) or another investor buys the rights from Toro, the Classic Wheel Horse series is no more......

re. AMF HD's, AMF was actually good for HD. Not only did they keep it viable but they also introduced features that are still in use today in the Evolution engines, i.e. the alternator bottom end, belt drive, the Low Rider to name a few. My 1977 FXE was an AMF HD and like I said, it sold for double what I gave for it, in less than showroom condition.
Try as they might, the imports will never match the success of the venerable V-Twin HD. The closest is the Goldwing but it depreciates as opposed to appreciates....
Same as all those VTwin cruiser wana-bes :D

Volfandt

Volfandt, where did you get your info?

I wonder if Toro is going to make any kind of statement? One would think that that many years of production would merit something--an explanation. We're not talking about a Citation or Vega here.

Boy, am I glad I purchased mine when I did.

agrippa, I followed a link to an article back at the 1st of the year and I thought I had saved it but appearantly I didn't. It had interviews with several folks that had worked at the plant for decades. I'll keep searching for it and I'll post a link if I do find it.
I'm going by memory and that can be a dangerous thing :D

Volfandt

Does anybody know what year you could pay 1599.00 for a new Wheelhorse Classic?

I found an inflation adjuster,

If you could buy a Wheelhorse Classic for $1599.00 in 1980 the adjusted value for the tractor in today's dollars would be $5040.00

If you could buy one for $1500.00 in 1975, the price in today's dollars would be $8320.00.

I think that the price of the machine may not be as out of line, given the way it is built, as some may think.

If it is gone, it is still a sad day--no matter what make you use. I bought one of the last ones made. I'm glad about that.

Generally, as the years passed we've found ways to reduce the cost of manufacturing most items. A $4K computer in 1990 is about $1K today (and it's infinitely superior) and a $3K GT in 1990 is probably $2K today and is also a better machine in many regards. Continuing to manufacture something which has no added engineering costs (because the product isn't changing or evolving) should lower the costs even more

As to whether the final cost is 'out of line' or not - The market decides that, based on the competion from other brands/makes - If it's a good deal, the public will beat a path to your door

Don

Well I can't find the link nor the article. I emailed Toro but haven't gotten a reply yet.
I normally save such things, especialy since my aged multi tasking mind likes operating in hibernating mode more often than not :D but didn't in this case.....

The article was about Toro closing the Wheel Horse plant in South Bend I believe and I thought I read where production was going to cease on the Classic, but then again they may end up just moving production to another facility, so without a link or any additional info by anyone else to back it up, take it with a grain of salt.

I'm off on holiday for a couple days, and here it is perfect mow'n weather, figures, see ya :D

Volfandt

Mailman, if you are still looking for a 48" blade, here's a nice one.

48" Blade

It's the same model number that I purchased so it will probably require a lever mod to fit your Classic. Shipping on mine was $125 for UPS 2 day zone.

Did you win the auction for the clevis hitch?

BTW, my blade arrived today!

-Deerslayer

Thanks deerslayer,
I saw that one but figured shipping would be high. It looks like it's in great shape. I do have a seller here who has a 48" in rusty condition with rear attachment for 190. After some work it might be ok, but I still have some time and my wife is not smiling so much now when I mention attachments. (she's 7 months plus) I don't push ANYTHING right now!
I love you honey! (in case she reads this)

" I love you honey! (in case she reads this)"
Phew, for a moment I thought that was aimed at Deerslayer :eek: :D

Toro bought Wheel Horse in 1986, but the Toro name didn't appear on the products until 1990. The old Wheel Horse plant in South Bend, IN was sold early on, I don't know the exact year but in the late 80's I believe. I think the story on the Classic is simply that Toro has been hugely successful with ZTR's (which Wheel Horse actually had in the 80's, by the way) while their traditional lawn and garden tractor sales have been slipping. They are also losing traditional consumer oriented dealers, as many of the ZTR sales seem to be from commercial oriented dealers who may have never even heard of a Wheel Horse tractor. So I guess the bottom line is they have made a business decision to just about kill off all their traditional lawn and garden tractors. While I can't agree with the decision, it's not mine to make, and I have to say a big "Thanks!" to Toro for keeping the traditional Wheel Horse alive for as long as they have. I will add that Toro has a long tradition of making all sorts of turf care related products, and they seem to have always adjusted and altered their product mix to the demands in the market they sought to serve. Perhaps because their specialty early on was in the commercial side, many people do not realize this company goes back to before 1920. Turf care has always been their business, not agriculture, and I think Toro was a bit uncomfortable with even touching into agriculture with their garden tractors. Why else would they have designed the otherwise very capable 5xi series with no provisions for a rear pto, no added hydraulics, and no 3-point hitch? Various ag type attachments that WH had offered were also dropped.

There's no question that modern design l&g tractors have more engineering in them today. Engineers are good at figuring out the least material that will perform the intended function, and safety factors today are obviously not the round 2 or 3 times like they used to be. So today's l&g transaxle, for instance, is built to a relatively tight tolerance for HP and torque, and is expected to handle the loads for "X" number of cycles. It's kind of like "battery science" - if a Sears battery claims a "4 year" life, by golly that's usually pretty close to what you'll get out of it. On the other hand, the Wheel Horse uni-drive was designed in the days when iron was cheap, things weren't supposed to break, and owners of garden tractors expected them to not only mow grass, but to really be more of a small tractor and not just a lawn mower they could ride on. The first tractors to use the modern style, 2-piece cast housing WH uni-drive transaxle were the 5.5HP 551 and the 7HP 701 in 1961. While the design had changes and revisions over the years, most major dimensions did not change, and the fact that some of the later 6-speed transaxles are handling 50+ HP in competitive pullers is a sure sign that they were built to last a lifetime in the intended application. Todays thin-wall close-fit aluminum castings and powdered metal gears may be very cost efficient and are probably well suited for most of today's purchasers, but they are nothing like the old cast iron gearboxes that Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Bolens, Peerless, and others used to make.

I can't do much about today's realities in terms of lawn tractor purchasers, economies of scale (the box store "make 'em cheap and sell millions" syndrome), and manufacturing economics, but I'll sure do what I can to preserve the remaining thousands and thousands of Wheel Horses that are out there! Ed

Mith, it creeped me out too until I read "(in case she reads this)". 8^)

-Deerslayer

I was wondering if any one out there may know how I would be able to get a slot hitch for my K181 wheel horse. I have a few attachment for my tractor that require the slot hitch but toro says its no longer availble. I have been watching ebay for the last few months and no one has put one up for sale. Wheel horse also has a 3 point hitch and a clevis hitch that are still avaible but I have no use for them. If anyone can tell me where I can either get a used or NOS please feel free to leave a message. The hitch in question attaches to the transmission case via a large pin that also holds the standard hitch that comes with all modles. the slot hitch goes on the pin where (on most tractors) there are spacers on the outside of the orignal hitch and the slot hitch has a small arm protruding up aprox. 3" and is attached to the pickup cable to the attachment lift arm. Thanks for your time.

Shadow -- continue to watch eBay. A WH Slot Hitch sold on eBay on October 20, 2006 for $59.95. I've seen several of them on eBay over the past year. Be patient.

-Deerslayer

Agreed, they come up quite often. I had the luxury to wait till I found one at a deal.

What is cooler and rarer is the Clevis hitch adapter that fits in the slot hitch. I have only seen two. The one I bought was not listed as a WH thing, but I knew it would work. More recently I saw another. What a beautiful idea. I might have a friend make some to sell.

With such a volume of info here, I wonder if anyone might be familiar with the 'WorkHorse 700' made by Toro a long time ago. Unit has a 'drop-off' type mower deck..(pull a pin,flip the lever and it falls down), and seems like a "floating" type of hitch on the back. We think it has an 11 hp Tecumseh motor. We'd like to rig some kind of 3 point or hydraulic hitch for a rake, back-blade, as well as a ball hitch. Any ideas?

Hi all, I need some of your expert opinions. I purchased a Toro Wheelhorse 312 about 1989 or 90 (not sure I can check the records). I moved a number of years ago and do not have enough lawn to justify the tractor. It only has about 260 hours. It has a 42" side discharge deck. I also have a single stage snow thrower that I bought used (not sure of the age), wheel weights and chains. How do I go about setting a sale price for the tractor and equipment?