Fafard - purchased a bale. Pro-mix is not available here, at least, it's not with that name. I asked for Pro-mix at the local garden/feed store and that's what they gave me. $30 for the bale. So far I've used just over half and am up to 127 containers WS'd. I'm giving the gallon milk jugs a generous amount to promote good root growth when the time comes.
I started out with MG moisture control but after reading the negatives about it on this forum, I went looking for Pro-mix. The difference between the two is startling--MG comes out of the bag like you've already added water. I mixed the MG in with the other, fluffier mix just to use it up--6 parts Fafard to 1 part MG.
Can you buy the Black Gold in a bale as opposed to a bag? The Fafard bale was compacted so it holds a lot more than you'd think.

Baccto Professional growers mix. 75% sphagnum and 25% perelite. 3.8 cu.ft. compressed bale. $19.00. It comes from Michigan.

Luke

I got a great deal on this stuff at my local Doller Store.

Think it will be OK??

{{gwi:343923}}

I know that seed starting mix and potting soil are not always the same thing, depending on the supplier and how they label their product. Potting soil is often too heavy and compacted to make good seed sprouting mix, especially for WS. If you can only find "potting soil" for sale, buy some perlite and/or course sand and add a generous amount of it to the "potting mix".

I find just the opposite. I think seed starting mix is too heavy, it's fine textured and compacts down quickly. I've never used it for WSing but did try it for indoors under lights. I don't even like it for that. Seems to be almost all peat and I don't like it at all.

Regular potting mix generally has a mix of indgredients, peat or bark or a mix of those, perlite, vermiculite. I use a regular potting mix and with some of those I even add more perlite.

Karen

I make my own. Mostly because I'm on a really tight budget. also because this way I know there's no weed seeds in there.
I mix peat and perlit. This year I added a tiny bit of bone meal and a tiny bit of slow released fertilizer.
I pretested the mix on some seeds on my window sill and no problems.

Monte, I think that is a bag of sand.lol not a good deal, but thanks for playing. don't worry everyone in the studio audience receives a prize.

:)Laura

In my best oprah voice:

"You get some soil, and you get some soil....etc."

I make my own too, peat, perlite and compost, because the best we can get here is Miracle Grow, none of those other brands you guys all talk about.

I used MG potting mix last year and it worked great for me. I had only a few containers without sprouts.

I guess it is different for everyone.

Karen

clc, you don't need to spend a large amount on a regular seed starting mix to winter sow - I'm not sure you'd even be happy with results in an outdoor application. Pro-Mix isn't available to us here, at least I've never found it. Nothing under the label Farfard either.

"fifty % sprout rate"....do you mean approx 50% of the seeds in each container germinated using MG, or that half of your containers had no sprouts?

I use the Cornell potting/container mix recipe but I don't mix it myself, one of my local nurseries has it made up and bagged. The Black Magic coco blend (has some coir along with the peat) container mix is close to the Cornell in weight and drainage and I've bought that when they were out of my usual. Gardener and Bloome makes a nice potting/container mix (don't confuse it with the soil building mix they sell, that one belongs in the garden), Whitney Farms is another good product but seems to contain more sand.

For Winter Sowing and not long term container plantings, I'm not sure you'd have greatly different results from MG with any of the above though.

"For Winter Sowing and not long term container plantings, I'm not sure you'd have greatly different results from MG with any of the above though."

This is year 7 for me WS. and my belief is "if it ain't broke, don't fix"

Except for my first about 50 containers, in my very first year, that had the cheap top soil in it and those containers turned into "adobe bricks" with little to no seed germination,
I've been using nothing but Miracle Grow Potting mix, just the regular one, not the one with moisture control.

My germination rate is nearly 100% in both number of containers and seeds germinated in the containers and have every year in every container that I have used the miracle grow potting mix in.

Depending on seed size and the actual seed sown in my containers, some of them will only have a few seedlings in them, because the seeds are larger and other containers will be full of seedlings because the seeds are so small.

I'm stocked with Miracle grow potting mix now and will be starting my WS soon. Wouldn't use anything else.

Fran

Here is a link that might be useful: seedling pic of some of my containers from last year

Woops, I just noticed I've changed the name of the potting mix from Black Gold to Black Magic....sorry, I really did mean Black Gold.

And now that I've seen that I'll probably be humming Santana all day :(

I'm a stay at home Mommy going back to college full time so I'm flat broke. I use the buck a bag potting soil whenever I can find it. Right now the only place that carries it is Family Dollar. :) I used that and the buck a bag soil from Walmart last year and I would say I had about 80% germination. I know a lot of people preach Promix around here, and when I hit the lottery I might even use it. But for some reason it's just really hard for me to pay four or five bucks for a bag of dirt, no matter what kind of miracles they bag up with it. :)

Miracle Grow soil is my first choice if I can get it in very large bags. The stuff works like a charm and you don't have to worry about feeding seedlings that you may be late to transplant.

T

I have Sunshine Metro Mix this year. Worked well for me in the past, has a lot of perlite.

Karen

I've been using ProMix for a few years and have had good results with it, although it's a bit pricey.

Before that, I used MG. I had good results with that too, but I switched over for two reasons. First, I did want to use something without the chemical fertilizers.

Second, I found that the MG was getting increasingly chunky. Big chunks of bark, etc. It didn't really affect germination, but sometimes it got a bit annoying while trying to sow seeds.

Last week, while out getting MG for a WSing program, I found a new MG, called Nursery Select, which I bought because there was nothing else available. It has coir in it, and I have to admit it had a nice texture - finer than the regular MG.

:)
Dee

Here is a link that might be useful: MG Nursery Select

Only Miracle Grow for me.

Rhonda

I'm a Miracle Grow Seed Starting Mix fan. Wouldn't use anything else - maybe MG Potting soil if I can't get Seed starting mix. This is my 8th year WSing and I get great results.

I have only used MG, some moisture control, some not. One large bag gets me through dozens and dozens of containers so I don't mind paying the $12 for it. I figure, I'm not paying for the seeds, and I'm not paying for the containers, and I'm not paying for the food I grow....except for the dirt so that is okay by me. If I were on a strict budget, I would try something else, but I would definately not get which one? Hyponex?

Hyponex is the one gardenluv.

Unless you want a container of weeds chocking out what ever seeds germinate and trying to survive.

Many, many years ago, hyponex was a gem. My grandma used it when I was kid.

But now it's nothing but a disaster. Soil is full of weed seeds and is not something anyone wants to use, even for their indoor plants. Unless you want to grow pots of weeds.

Fran

I prefer Promix to anything else... Its a nice texture and you can do ALOT of stuff with one bale.

I start all my seeds in it, inside or out.

Silverkelt

I'm trying a bag of ProMix this year since it has such rave reviews. Last year I used MG with great success, and I also used a generic brand from Walmart...I think it was called Expert Gardener or something like that...and that worked fairly well too. It was cheap, that's why I gave it a try. :) Tried one bag of Hyponex and learned my lesson! Never again!

If anyone has a garden nursery near you that carries Michigan Peat/Garden Magic products, see if they have or will bring in Baccto Professional Planting Mix. It is like Pro Mix which I also use when I find it.
Remy

Here is a link that might be useful: Baccto Mix

I have a 1 cu foot bag of Fafard, and just ordered a 3.8 cu ft bale of Pro-mix from the local Ace hardware (about $31). It should be coming in soon that should be plenty of potting mix for this year.

I impulsively ordered the Pro mix but after reading the ingredients, I realized that I could probably make a home-made mix for less money. I could even screen some of the wood chips for bark fines and add those to a home-made mix, but should have done that before the pile of wood chips was frozen solid!

Late to the thread, in a quandry. Not going to spend any more than I have to because I have been and will be going through large bags like crazy (I do window boxes and large containers) as well as WS'ing in jugs and such.

So the joke is on me. I thought I was using MG regular potting soil, my daughter picked me some up at HD oh when? Late summer. So I've been thru one bag, read the posts, went and looked. Scott's Premium Potting Soil. Awful stuff. Will have to make do with it. Wet, lumpy, clods, twiggy stuff, I've been mixing some of my expensive seed starter in with it so that might help, don't have much perlite left and have two huge bags of peat outside, not dealing with those 'til spring.

Luckily I brought in a fresh bag of it B4 it froze because I asked my daughter to go out and bring in the off-brand potting soil she picked up instead of topsoil, 2 bags of that. Frozen solid out there.

I'll go get some MG and ask her to carry it in or she might go for me.

I hope I haven't ruined everything, never noticed it was Scott's. They make MG, don't they? I did sow some dill from the drier first bag of the stuff under my lights, and it's germinating nicely now.

My main worry is that this fresh bag is so wet and has been sitting near the front hall since I brought it in early Dec, finally bounced it into the kitchen yesterday. I'm worried my good seeds I sowed will get mold out there or some other unexpected consequences. I added a little water because of the dry seed starting mix, but by itself it doesn't need any water, not dripping wet, just wetter than I usually use.

I'm watching that dill like a hawk for damping off, only have H2O2 solution and no capstan or whatever I used years ago.

Those 2 bags outside came loose with the warmup, see they are Scott's Potting Soil, not off brand. They are frozen solid but I got them in the house to thaw. That was hard. They are HEAVY!

Will mix in some seed starter that has perlite and use this up before I buy more.

The one that's been in the house since fall smells a little rancid but not moldy. I'm guessing that shouldn't hurt anything. I'm using the last of that bag today.

The miricle grow I used last year was a seed mix and had vermiculite in it rather than perlite. It packed down and 50% of my milk jugs did not sprout. I would have been thrilled if I had gotten 50% seed sprout from each jug. I planted over 300 milk jugs so I lost alot of seeds. The black Gold is a seed starting mix as well. It sounds like alot of you use reg. potting mix rather than a seed starting mix. Is that right? I have an Ace hardware next door from where I work. I will go check out their supply for some Pro mix. I'm open to checking out other brands. I can afford to pay for good stuff. I'd rather do that than go to all that work and be disapointed with a poor sprout rate with something cheaper. However, if there is something out there just as good but at a better price-well that's a no brainer. I've looked for pro mix before. I found something called Professional Mix, but wondered if that was the same stuff. Anyone know?

I suppose it makes sense to use the best you can afford. I'm not sure regular potting soil is the way to go, just would rather use it to give the sprouts nutrients rather than seed starter in case they sit in the jugs for awhile which they surely will.

The only ones I'm a little concerned about are the ones where I sprinkled vermiculate on top, seems like have had more failures with that in the past.

Experienced posters say the soil should be light. I think adding perlite if you don't see any in it would be a good thing.

But I know seeds will sprout in pure compost, and I have many bags of that plus it's only $1.50 or so per bag. So if I run out, maybe I'll add a little seed starter and/or perlite to some of that. I should sterilize it with boiling water but probably won't bother. I've got some of my own though that I know I threw bunches of seedy stuff in, so I will pour boiling water over that in a 5 gal bucket and use it up to get rid of it.

Another year what I decide to use will depend on how it goes this year. For all my potted plants MG potting soil has been great, later add some Osmocote of Mir something depending on the ph it needs.

Yes, we use potting mixes/container mixes (may also be called potting soil - almost all of those are soilless mixes these days)....whatever is formulated for growing mature plants in containers, not seed starting mixes.

If Black Gold is what you are finding, the product packaged for growing container plants will be what you want.

Again, Pro Mix seems to be a popular choice for many but we are in a gardeners mecca in the PNW and I've never seen it. Using the product locater function on the Pro Mix website shows none within 100 miles of Olympia, 3 sources in British Columbia when using within 100 miles of Seattle, and one in Canby Oregon when using Portlands zip code. I don't need it that badly, my things are germinating and growing fine without it :)

I do use hyponex and as a matter of fact have a bag of it in the other room. It isn't my favorite choice as it does clump up and it is a bit like black clay, but I haven't had the disastrous results that I've read others have had on this forum. I would imagine it is as much the soil you use in combination with what other practices you have. So far knock on wood, it's worked out for me. That's not to say I'll ever switch but for now I'm too broke to use anything else...unless all my plants up and croak on me! :)

I always ask Santa for 10 bags of MG Potting Mix. He knows I like to play in the dirt all winter. He brings it before Christmas so the reindeer don't have to pull the extra weight Christmas Eve.

{{gwi:343925}}

Don (dem_pa)

Dem pa,
That's my idea of a great Christmas gift! I also like to play in the dirt.
Tina

Don, thanks for posting the photo. That's what I want when I need more. Over time, I'd use 10 but don't want to buy more than 4 at a time. I hurt my back hauling 2 bags frozen soil in the house yesterday, could barely lift it, hope it goes away soon. I wonder how much it weighs. I don't like to depend on others if I don't absolutely have to.

Seems like I used to be able to carry MG like yours easily enough a couple years back IF it wasn't too wet. But lifting 25# bag of cat litter, dry, was even a bit much today.

In better weather, I can unload from the trunk into the wheelbarrow, one bag at a time, and get it to the side of the house and stack. But I then have to bounce it around and up 5 steps and then way back to the kitchen, but that route is the best overall rather than coming from the back.

There are ways around things, have had to do it. I can work out of my trunk and put into smaller containers if it's just one bag of something but like to pick up at least 2 MG when I go.

Here's something interesting from the Colorado State extension site:

Choose a true potting media and not something labeled compost. Composts are best used as organic amendments for outdoor soils. The two composts trialed, Great Plains Compost and Mushroom Compost, produced poor results.

Second, Hyponex All Purpose Potting Soil and Green Charm resulted in poor plant growth. Both of these media contain sedge peat, a fine particle material that tests to a low porosity. There simply isn't enough space within these media for the water and air that plant roots need to grow successfully. Black Gold All Organic Potting Mix resulted in significantly less plant growth in one out of two years.

There are definite benefits to growing annual plants in media that may be more costly but result in better plant growth. Chose a media from any of the following. The study showed no significant differences in plant growth among these products:

* Home & Garden Showplace Professional Mix
* Fertilome Potting Mix
* Nature's Yield Potting Soil
* Southland Potting & Plant Mix
* Black Gold All Purpose Mix
* Permagreen General Purpose Potting Soil
* Schultz's Instant Potting Soil Plus
* Sunshine All Purpose

Here is a link that might be useful: Consumers Beware Potting Mix Choices

I used one bag of MG last year for winter sowing and I didn't like it at all. It had so many large pieces of wood in it that I had to toss a lot of them out that were too big to put in a small container. Even after taking out the big pieces, the action of the rain would make the other pieces of wood float to the top and get in the way of germination. It only took me one bag to learn my lesson. I think MG works fine for transplanting a plant to a large container, but not for seed sowing. In fact, mine had so much wood on top it was almost like it formed it's own mulch around the plant when I used it for transplanting. I used three different mixes last year and I would rate MG at the bottom of the list. Maybe they package it in more than one location and some of you get a better product, but I won't waste my money on it again.

I brought home some Proffesional Blend and mixed it with some of my Black Gold seed mix. It has some wood chips in it but not bad. It was 3.99 for a larger bag. Someone pointed out that seed starter mixes may not be the best choice for winter sowing. Never thought about that. I guess most seed mixes are used in the greenhouses. I planted another 26 milk jugs today, (that makes 78) then the mail came and I got a bunch more seed. And to top it off, I'm in on 3 round robin seed exchanges yet to arrive. Damn, I swore I wasn't going to plant so many this year, but I'm so obsessive/compulsive.