Kohler 16hp Command Engine Nagging Won't Start on Simplicity
mikulskn
10 years ago
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rcbe
10 years agomikulskn
10 years agoRelated Discussions
Hard to start in cold weather revisited
Comments (46)Air starvation is what I was indicating from your description of starts easier with the air filter off allowing adequate air to fuel mixture. As JL has advised dirty or loaded filter medium will cause this extreme condition. However as JL has requested (orientation) if the hose connects to the venturi area of the carb it will have a direct effect on air entrainment into the fuel air mixture. As we have stated previously , not having you engine at arms length make diagnosis rather difficult (hit & miss) . A torn or cracked or loose impulse line is something any technician inspects and replaces as a matter of fact. This from a former diesel mechanic who has chased numerous vacuum / return to tank fuel line issues causing air entrainment hard or no start diesel applications . Anyhow for what ever reason glad you have solved your hard starting dilemma :)...See MoreKohler Command Single or Briggs Twin Intec
Comments (14)I have an old Sears single cylinder 8 or 10 HP techumsah motor (i know its no prize). But that old Tec motor runs every time i need it and never misbehaves... This unit has a hard life towing huge stones, boat trailers, etc... But I love it because it sips gas ... It is a bit noisey - but I think mostly because of the meager exhaust fitted to it way back when... I have a 10 year old Scotts 2046 with a 20 HP B&S Intek motor... also runs great... nice and quite... and very smooth / little vibration... On the other hand the deck and ride cause enough noise/vibration ... so the point might be moot. A complete pig on gas compared to the little single cylinder Sears. Sometimes I pretend I have money - and I look at the new riders. I would definitely get a single cylinder for the gas consumption. (I dont care about HP too much - my 8 HP sears can drag a loaded boat trailer; a 12-18 HP can certainly cut my lawn) Im sure their much more quite than the old Sears... Having a single cylinder I can say that it vibrates more than the twin - but thats NOT something which should be a deciding factor... I would say that a pressure fed oil system would be a requirement ... Overhead valves would be nice (most new stuff has that). But I would also try to find a unit with a sturdy tranny (for my abusive ways)......See MoreKohler Command 14HP Problems
Comments (12)***"If it was burning oil I'd think I'd get a consistent black smoke?"*** No. Gasoline overfuel (or excessively rich) causes black smoke because of the very "complex" way gasoline burns, or "combusts" in the combustion chamber, because of the "complex chemical make up", of gasoline. Gasoline, Diesel "fuel oil", and engine lube oil, are all in the family of chemical compounds we call Hydrocarbons. Hydro for Hydrogen and carbon for Carbon. Hydrocarbon compounds are made by combining "elemental Hydrogen" and "elemental Carbon" together. Because hydrogen and carbon can "link up" in very complex combinations (compounds), these combinations are called "chains". How many atoms of each element, and the varying ways they alternate and hook up determines the "properties" of the final compound. Some of the resulting combinations are very "stable" and DO NOT want to evaporate (or even "melt") easily. Other combinations will "flash" at low temperatures and remain "a thin liquid" at extremely low temperatures. One thing all hydrocarbon compounds share is "combustibility". The ability to combine with oxygen (or "burn"). Some hydrocarbons are eager to combust and only need to get near a "molecule" of oxygen and they just "throw open their arms" to the oxygen (very "promiscuous"). Other compounds are so reluctant to "mess around" with oxygen that they must first be heated to a high temperature before they'll have anything to do with any oxygen molecules (or oxygen atoms). You can draw your own analogies there, but suffice it to say, these compounds are very "chaste". Ok, lets use this in a practical way now. Starting with "how come "burning oil" makes BLUE smoke. The short "answer" is: Because the oil "ain't actually burning". Some portion of the oil (in an engine that is "consuming oil") does actually burn, but the majority of THOSE hydrocarbon molecules are only "vaporized" by the heat of the combustion chamber environs. The hydrocarbon compounds that make good "lubes", are some of those "chaste", or stable ones that don't enjoy "a good combustion". The color of lube oil "vapor" in an exhaust plume is similar to to what you would see if you poured some oil on a hot exhaust manifold. Starting a Diesel engine in frigid temps will result in the following observances in the exhaust plume: First, you will see the fuel oil "vapor plume" as a white or blue/white color, because the initial heat of compression, is only hot enough to vaporize a portion of the Diesel fuel oil, but not hot enough to "ignite" (flashpoint temperature) the fuel. The next color change will be the addition of black as the combustion chamber temperature begins to reach "ignition" flashpoint. But, even though ignition has been achieved, the temperatures in the combustion chamber have not risen enough to support "complete ignition and combustion" of all the available hydrocarbon molecules. This "incomplete combustion" means that some of the hydrocarbon chains are combusting "partially" or incompletely. In this stage, some of the HYDROGEN atoms break out of the compound and unite with oxygen atoms. Some of the CARBON atoms get liberated and quickly "recombine" to form both "new hydrocarbons" and "plain carbon compounds" (soot.....black). It is the resulting carbon and new carbon compounds that give the black color to the plume. This black color only last briefly in this scenario, because the temperatures inside the engine rise rapidly now, and the combustion of the fuel is near enough to complete, that the exhaust plume will become almost clear in a "good engine". But that was in a Diesel engine having combustion chamber compression pressures of more than 500 PSI. Fuel oil can be processed (combusted) very well under those conditions, but engine lube oil would require even a greater magnitude of pressures and temperatures to "burn clean". As a result, a worn out Diesel engine throws out "blue oil smoke" too (though some of that is actually "uncombusted fuel" too, when the engine is in bad condition!). In a gasoline fueled engine, the gas is highly volatile (evaporates readily). Highly volatile compounds are also "highly combustible", and will therefore "burn" in the lower compression environs of a "gasoline engine" (though not without a well timed spark to "incite ignition and propagation"). Gasoline is a complex blend of different "complex hydrocarbons". The more volatile compounds are very eager to burn and create a fast moving flame front, or "propagation wave" that moves through the combustion chamber from the spark plug "spark gap" when the plug "fires". This combustion process is not a "homogeneous" or "simultaneous" process. The highly volatiles burn and consume oxygen first, followed by the "lesser volatile compounds" as the temperatures rise (remember it takes some heat before some of these "chaste" compounds will join in). The least volatile compounds (both of the "original hydrocarbons", the "new hydrocarbons", and the resultant carbon compounds) are faced with a problem. Most of the good looking oxygen atoms have already paired up with the more promiscuous hydrogen atoms and early carbon atoms, so there "are not enough" oxygen atoms around for everybody to find a partner. Not "everybody" will locate an oxygen partner and there will be "some wallflowers" at the end. If you make the fuel/air mix too rich with fuel, there will be even more leftover wallflowers "after the dance". These "wallflowers" end up going out the exhaust in various quantities (depending on specific criteria of fuel, air, spark, temperatures, compression, and a few etceteras). It is the carbon compound "wallflowers" (soot) that give the exhaust its black color when too much fuel is present. Lube oil, (in the same analogy) does not get heated up enough to burn, but does get hot enough to vaporize and so lends the characteristic "blue oil smoke" color to the exhaust. A term that has come up in recent years (in technical speak) is "stoichiometric combustion". That term essentially means that there are "just enough" molecules (atoms) of Oxygen to combine with the Hydrogen and Carbon atoms in the hydrocarbon fuel during combustion so that there are no atoms of any of the "original" elements remaining after combustion stops. As far as one can see into the "near future" stoichiometric combustion is unlikely to be attained in commercially available power plants (engines I mean). CLASS, DISMISSED! PS, check the "choke wizard" per tomplum's suggestion....See MoreIs this used Simplicity a good deal?
Comments (3)If you believe the hours, I'd have already moved it into my garage at that price. Seems like a give-away, and they are real sometimes. Howver, any further mechanical checking for clues would be added insurance. Looks and records do tell a lot, however, if it actually runs well now and has no tell-tale smoke, noises, etc. It's a quality machine that you can easily resell if you don't like it after the rest of this season, possibly for a profit :)...See Morercbe
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