I think if using urea makes you a sinner then move over we need more room on this train starting with me. I have a pile that needs some right now. My grass gets mulched and My off-site supply of greens is now "Off Limits". and I only have a few mouths of weather left.

Curt~

I take it you've been doing this for a while. Does the 'aging' compost have earthworm activity? If you grow plants from seeds, have you noticed any germination problems?

As I understand the objections to Urea, since it is water soluble,it can leach into water tables, rivers, lakes, and eventualy the ocean.

Are you pretty sure that the urea you use stays within your compost and doesn't leach into the soil beneath your compost piles?[& from there, who knows?] Is there a reason [besides convenience] for not using other nitrogen-rich materials? Do you have a pretty good handle on how much urea is enough and how much is too much?

I understand the desire to crank out enough compost for your gardens in a short growing/composting season. In my climate, it's pretty much year-round, so not going to sit in judgement. When I'm short on greens, I donate some human urine to my piles with no adverse effects on earthworm activity and seed germination ... so far.

borderbarb - yes, I have earthworm activity, but admittedly only in the oldest pile (being lazy, never checked the hot or aging pile); hey, being honest. Maybe there is an effect in working piles. I have much other activity - voles, june bug grubs, etc. in the interim piles. I have 7 months a year to do effective composting.
I might also add that I don't add tons of urea to my piles. I may add 4-6 pounds of urea to an 8' diameter pile in a year. Doesn't seem like even enough N at a 20:1 ratio, but seems to work quite well with the amount of grass clippings and bean vines and other chanced greens tossed in. I am sincerely wondering if, in my 8' diameter bins, the use of 6 lbs. urea per year (12 lbs. total for two years = less than 6 lbs. actual N) is doing the environment a disservice. I hate to send organic material to the landfill, but this has been my only solution.
hortster

Sounds like you're not running amok, spewing urea by the pounds. I'm such a tightwad that I think I'd be struck by lightning if I bought stuff for my compost pile [generated by small city lot] Sounds like you have a lot of material to compost. Is it chipped into fairly small pieces? Some people are able to make a deal with grocer or restaurant for vegetable/food waste. And of course you know about Starbucks free UCG...other coffee houses might also 'donate to the cause'. Horse owners are usually eager to find someone to take their manure.
BTW ... did you see the article about the Amish farming practices causing polluting run-off? "Their cows generate heaps of manure that easily washes into streams and flows onward into the Chesapeake Bay."

Here is a link that might be useful: Amish farmers pollute?

Unless you are an organic gardener using urea in your compost pile is not cheating.

I expected more response to this post It sounded like a fun one!
Barb; I live in a small town with no coffee shop I will not drive to the next town for coffee grounds. That may be organic but it not green or cheap. I will find a source of green that is close by
kimmsr,bouderbarb; I did not state the form of urea I am using although I see no difference personally He He.

Curt~ P.S I've got worms

"...see no difference" Au contraire .... one is free the other is not.[kaching]

Re: scant response .... maybe fear of self-"incrimination"?
One never knows who or what is lurking in the shadows [evil grin] [except for Lamont Cranston]

Re: town too small for a Starbucks ... sigh... wish I could say as much.[we have 11] The population of my state has tripled in the last 50 years and is projected to triple again in the next 30-40 years. Don't let me get started on the rapid rate at which we are "urbanizing" our agricultural lands. YIKES! I keep threatening to move to a mountain in ID and raise goats .... but hard to pull up stakes, and goat conversation is too "one note"

Best thing to do would be tell all your Friends you started using humanure for your nitrogen and they will stop asking questions about your compost(:

No I don't think its cheating or that you are having a negative impact on anything and it doesn't seem like you are to concerened about spending a few dollars to get many yards of fine compost

Sin? Did I hear my favorite word? ::shoves someone off the bench to make room:::

I have been known to add a couple of scoops of ammonium nitrate to the top of a pile and then water the heck out of it.

I'm not throwing any rocks, Hortster, and I'm sure you are not alone in using purchased products to accelerate decomp in your compost. However, it's not something many of us want to talk about after having someone jump on us for employing gardening/composting practices that may be different than what they do. IMO there is nothing wrong with using compost accelerators altho I don't use granular urea because I try to be as organic as possible. I welcome donations of the organic variety. :-)

In this zone 3 climate composting really only happens for 5-6 months despite some people saying otherwise. When it's -40C (that's -40F also) keeping a compost hot is something I invite anyone to come and try! I'll provide the hot chocolate and cozy indoor fire you can enjoy when that pick-axe gets too heavy and you've decided you're cold enough! ;-D Also we live in the boonies and it's not always possible to find enough components to compost hot - it means driving miles to find things which isn't ecological or easy. We're retired and sometimes also tired so aren't going to expend the effort in that direction. Have to pick and choose activities. As for using horse or cattle manure, sure there's lots of it around but haven't found anyone to deliver reliably. Most ranchers and horse people here are too busy and have their animals on pasture much of the year. No feedlots here. Those who have manure available expect you to bring your pickup and they'll toss in a bucket load with their front end loader. Since we have a new pickup we don't want to do that. Much easier to buy bags of alfalfa pellets to make tea and add to the compost. Just bot 120kg which should last awhile. Cost $60 which is less than many people spend on fertilizers. I've used blood meal and soya meal in the past but prefer alfalfa pellets. Don't want to attract predators with the blood meal and I don't like GM products much. The alfalfa we're getting is not GM yet.

I picked up about 30lbs of UCG today at a local coffee shop so I do what I can when it works for me. My project this week is to pile up the remnants of my failed lasagna bed along with all the weeds and grass clippings, water it with some alfalfa tea, and cover with a black tarp. No more fooling around trying to keep the compost pile damp enough in this dry windy climate. If I lived on a 60'x100' city lot I could easily make enough compost by 'approved' methods but not here for this large country garden.

I depend on 'feeding' the worms in my garden as well - they love alfalfa tea and my buried kitchen scraps. In turn they are making lots of worm castings which I understand some people actually buy!

I think we all need to remember that there are many ways of improving soil and composting and not everyone has the same conditions to garden in. Making even small attempts at composting are commendable and deserving of encouragement, not criticism.

"BTW ... did you see the article about the Amish farming practices causing polluting run-off? "Their cows generate heaps of manure that easily washes into streams and flows onward into the Chesapeake Bay."

I just read this article and while this may be a problem, I feel that there are far more serious issues in this country for the government to be concerned with than them sticking their noses in to the Amish Farmers. IMO they are model citizens of their communities and excellent stewards of the land.

(Sorry - I didn't mean to hijack the thread but did want to comment on this)

I am turning clay into soil, and wood chips provide the most easily accessible bulk to do this. I don't have time to wait, nor do I have enough greens for the big piles so urea is the ticket. I avoid pesticides as much as possible but don't have a problem using natural gas to make synthetic nitrogen fertilizer or on my stove to cook or can my produce. The urea gets turned into a slow release organic form in the compost for my garden and water tends to run off of wood chip piles so leaching isn't a big concern. The pile is under a big tree that benefits from any that escapes.

..
What's the big deal about urea besides having to pay for it?

I'll pee in my pile but based on my diet I wouldn't call it organic outside of an organic-chemistry class.
..

I certainly have no issue with using fertilizers in the sport of composting. I also have no issue with spending money in the sport of composting. It's my money and I'll spend it as I see fit to. (heck, some people spend money on golfing, now there is a waste of $$) I also burn a bit of diesel fuel whilst composting, it's all good IMO.

Lloyd

No one should think that people that practice 18th century farming are necessarily enviromentally sensitive. Anyone that piles up animal manures so that the runoff pollutes is not an environmentally sensitive person.