My foray into the Barbier ramblers was Alexandre Girault. Somebody in Texas (I think - it was a while ago) thought we needed it and sent a cutting. Very, very healthy, very, very vigorous, it bloomed well about once every three or four years. It blooms on old wood, and generally didn't have a lot of that.

It really wouldn't surprise me if the thing was crown hardy well into zone 4. It never gave any sign of thinking of giving up the ghost here. The problem was entirely getting it to bloom. The canes were just a bit too stiff to get totally down beneath the snow cover, and they can't handle temperatures much below zero.

Aliska. I love Alberic Barbier. Unfortunately, I have only grown it in zones 8 and 9, so I have no idea how it would cope with a colder climate.
I can tell you however, that for me, it was always completely healthy. It didn't get any diseases at all, and bloomed all summer.
Daisy

I try a lot of marginal zone plants, as you can never tell, the microclimates and drainage issues vary so much. I think the best approach is to try to plant marginals with known entities so that you aren't left depending on the marginals - allowing for experimentation without leaving you with big holes in the landscape. I like to plant roses in small clusters - say three roses on maybe 1-2 ft centers. Not sure how it's going to work long term, but if David Austin recommends planting several of the same rose close together, then the problem of closeness should be more about competition due to differences in eventual size and vigor rather than nutrient uptake. Roses are so easily transplanted that adjustments can be made later if necessary.
If one has serious disease or hardiness issues (a problem when I lived in z5) you aren't left with a big hole if the experimentals fail to thrive.

This isn't a rose nursery, but I love their motto - Your Home for (not just) Zonal Denial!

Last winter was a hard one here, but it was very mixed - some plants that should have been hardy died, and some that should have died are fine - you don't know with the marginals until you try in your own microclimate.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cistus Nursery

mad_gallica, daisyincrete and albertine, thank you so much for your input. I feel better about it now. It's only money. Gulp.

I'll get something out of those beauties even if they won't do what I would want most. If they bloom, fine. If they refuse to bloom, I'll move them once or twice and if that doesn't work, get rid of them. As long as they stay alive, my options are still open.

I agree that the Paul Barden roses are the easiest to care for otherwise, no need to spray the two pairs I already have and another one very similar. Alberic will be another Jap beetle magnet. Some people don't get in a fit over those things and don't do anything, ignore them and let them chomp away. But what they don't realize is that if you don't fight them and they get a foothold in your yard, never mind looking sickening on blossoms esp when they swarm, there will be exponentially more the following year.

Wish me luck. I'm going to need it. Maybe I'm being too impatient. I did get my Barden roses in bands, and it does take longer for those to take hold. I would at least lay the canes on the ground if they aren't too stiff, but I now know from working with some, they do get too stiff and would be ruined trying that.

Aliska- I grow Alberic over a pergola-type trellis in my zone 5 garden. We might be more like 5A, but one year we went to -20. I'm in Schuylkill Co Pa. Mine is a grafted rose from Pickering & I'm guessing I've had it 10 years. It grows 8ft up the trellis and sends canes over another 8 or 10 ft. to make up for what New Dawn hasn't done on the other side. I give it NO winter protection. It gives me a profusion of bloom, with a scattered flower later in the season. Go for it!
I'll try to post a picture later tonight.

Maybe Alberic will be finished blooming before the JBs get bad.

Oh thanks for that! Our conditions sound similar, very rare for -20 and even -10 these last winters. This one we did plummet for some days to around -10 or a little lower. That settles it. He's here and looks really good for bands. I have a couple of choices where to site them.

I will definitely take better care now with these. Wouldn't it be loverly?

Actually a spring flush would be great. Then if it doesn't do much by way of repeat blooms, I won't have to worry so much about beetles.

It says it is shade tolerant but I know what that means, fewer blooms, and I don't have a full sun spot. Where Graham Thomas was taken out, it's southern facing but only about 5 hours, trees on several sides blocking sun, but he does do better in much more sun. My arbor in back might work, too, it faces east and gets a lot of morning sun. If irises are any indication, my yellow ones right there, morning sun only maybe some late afternoon from the west, finally bloomed for me, year 3, and need to be divided. They are loaded with nice blooms finally, and they need sun.

I'll check back for your photo.

Both photos below from today. First are the bands of Alberic and the bigger one is Bleu Magenta.

I could plant two together in front where I took Graham out (no pic handy).

The arbor is the second photo. Jeanne La Joie is on either side of it now and not doing well. The side with the drainpipe gets waterlogged when it rains, and I haven't been able to cope with the problem tried to fill it in with lots of topsoil and built a little higher by the arbor.

The odd thing is that on the right in the photo, it is drier and has to compete with roots from an apple tree close by, but that side does the best. I can pot Jeanne up in 5 gal pots and set in front against the brick wall in the recess there, west side facing east and south, where the new ones are sitting and see if she will do more that way.

My daughter loves Jeanne and might like to take her if I get her going in pots, not quite ready to offer her on Freecycle, got her in bands 3 years ago, came late that year worse than what I got today with Alberic.

The arbor needs to be straightened and secured somehow, one more thing to cope with, but I don't like the way it is starting to lean.

But I'm worried about the water problem. I no longer have the strength to dig a runoff and the gutters are expensive and too much to get into. What does anybody think?

Otherwise I have a spot left out of the photo on the left up by the foundation of the house where the dryer vents, haven't known what to put there. I don't use the dryer that much just for me so don't see where that would necessarily be a huge problem, have the vent turned a little to the south and not going strait out but still . . .

{{gwi:272254}}

{{gwi:272256}}

I really appreciate this advice because it spins around in my head, and roses are difficult here as it is, would like to avoid an obvious mistake again.

They protrude way out of one of the band pots. Blue Magenta has a fat one and one smaller one as well, that's why I have them in the water have them in the shade now on the east side. Shouldn't leave them sitting in water but what am I to do until I can get them planted?

Should I trim the roots off even with the bottom of the pot? They may have dried out too much in shipping anyway, but they came well packed and were only in transit less than 2 full days, Oregon to Iowa!

Paul Barden's description of this rose sold me, too (who is the better enabler-he or Patrick?). I have it since this Spring; we'll see how it does in the partial shade, climbing into a pecan tree.

Climbing a tree in your zone ought to work fine. You won't have as many blooms I doubt. The reason I say this is that a nice lady from RVR called me about my order, and told me they had one growing like that and the blooms were sparser (paraphrasing). I saw a gorgeous photo here last year of Awakening climbing a tree, huge.

I've never seen a rose climbing a tree here, but it must fairly common in more southerly zones. We're lucky to get them to climb anything unless they're the tried and true which are nice like Blaze, even pretty, but not like OGR's. I've noticed other people around here fail with roses on arbors, go halfway up if they are lucky, then they either get fed up and try another rose or something else entirely. Come to think of it, I cannot remember one decent climbing rose here even in the rose garden in one park which is tended by professionals. I'll have to check next time I'm by there.

The one Blaze I spotted and photographed was beautiful on the top of the arbor, looked like a very mature plant that had been there for years, but the sides were leggy, needed more something.