I tried two climbers and one bush, and I gave them time. I have a great deal of patience with roses. I never saw an open bloom. They all balled and rotted. The foliage mildewed horribly. Where it is good, it is GREAT. Where it's bad, it is awful. It is gone, and it will never come back.

Jeri

I really like my SDLM. It bloomed beautifully this spring....I was able to cut a bunch of them and take them to work. They smelled up the small lab where I work. My spray schedule is erratic at best and it has been pretty healthy here is South Carolina.

And I bought it at a local Big Box Store....it was an own root Jackson and Perkins.

Go figure!

Carole

It's our Florida humidity. It can make a mess of our roses sometimes.

It is just about my favorite. I have four of them. Mine are as beautiful as the pictures, and do not have the problems you describe == however, I do spray for thrips and caterpillars. I take off the aphids. Mine are loaded with blooms almost all season, they are truly beautiful. My pictures are not yet into Picture Trail, and I do not think I can post one here without the url.

Sammy

Replace it with the sport rose Souv. de St Anne. a semi double flower that opens well even when wet and drops its petals cleanly. While it is about as stiff looking as its sport parent the flatter flowers tend to take away from the stiff appearence.

Lance

Sounds like it's a mixed bag with this one. I suppose one would consider me as not being extremely patient with roses, but I've found that the really good ones are good right from the beginning. I would have to say in my case that if they are still yucky 6 months after planting them, they seem to remain yucky.

By contrast, Lady Hillingdon has delighted me from day one (as have many of my other roses). She has grown considerably this past year from what she started from, but has been lanky and open in growth. She is now starting to fill in, going into her second year. With this, I am very patient. She has given me the most beautiful roses in the meantime.

I don't enjoy rotted balls. I don't think it's always from thrips. Regardless, I am NOT going to spray fanatically. I spray once in awhile, hate the chore, and worry about the chemicals. Mme Franziska Kruger is starting to do the same thing, but I at least have gotten many good blooms from her. She may go back in a pot, rather than have garden space, but I'll keep her because she does give more lovely blooms than SDLM.

SDLM, the shovel is standing by!

Sandy, Lady Hillingdon has a great deal of China in her blood. These roses do not ball in Florida. Except for maybe Old Blush - she's an enigma. She balled like crazy early on, grew like a maniac, then the next year the balling was just on occassion. Balling is just something us Floridian's have to be mindful of in our climate. I am so jelous of drier areas in this respect.

If you like Lady Hillingdon, you should try Safrano. She is of like bloom and heritage, but mine thrives like a maniac and even surpasses the Lady. The color is a yellow blend, but has a little more salmon in her tone. She is not a worthy cut bloom as she looses her petals. However, she NEVER balls, is always blooming, a lovely shade (sunset), no disease, and the epitome of classic charm.

Basically, you are safe with the China's and most Noisettes in our climate with few exceptions. However, my Blush Noisette is the ball champion of the universe. I dedicated her to my aunt that raised me, so she's a keeper. I may move her to the neighbor's yard though.

{{gwi:270123}}

SAFRANO

Sandy, are you having problems with chilli thrips? Those darn beasts can cause buds on SDLM to turn brown and not open properly. It has been so dry here that I doubt the buds are balling because of too much humidity or moisture! Everyone tells me how wonderful it has been this spring with our low humidity (for here) in southwest FL.

Just like real estate, it's all about location, location, location. Notice that Sammy said her SdlM "is just about my favorite". I live just south of her in NorthCentral Texas, and SdlM is just about my favorite too. There's a reason for that ... SdlM is extremely well-adapted to the climate here in this region of the country. It performs beautifully here, even when the other rose varieties are having a hard time. Few other roses can handle our summer heat like SdlM can and still produce mind-bogglingly perfect, fragrant blooms.

We vacation quite a lot in Florida. If I lived there, I would probably grow mostly chinas & teas that have semi-double blooms. Examples of tea roses with semi-double blooms are Lady Hillingdon, Safrano, Gilbert Nabonnand, & Madame Antoine Mari. These would NOT be inclined to ball in your high humidity. Most all of the chinas should do well, except perhaps Old Blush, as mentioned above.

Lance is right on target to suggest Souvenir de St Annes, for anyone who likes SdlM but has balling problems. However, because you don't seem to like SdlM as all (stiff canes, etc), you may not care for that one either (I personnally love it).

Best of luck with what you decide. Above you said, "I would have to say in my case that if they are still yucky 6 months after planting them, they seem to remain yucky." I tend to agree with you on that. I normally give the rose two or three years to see if I change my mind, but you shouldn't keep a rose that you know you will not enjoy. You seem to like a more relaxed plant habit, like Lady Hillingdon ... SdlM's canes are always going to be rigidly still. And with your climate, she's probably always going to ball during spring, and maybe other times of the year as well. You need not feel guilty, if you decide it's shovel-pruning time.

Randy

Thanks everyone so much! I have been seriously thinking about getting Souv. de St. Anne's. I can live with a bit of stiffness in the bush as long as the basic form and foliage are nice. I have a few hybrid teas I just love.

Safrano ia arriving this week sometime from Ashdown. Thanks for the lovely pictures.

I have been trying to get Madame Antoine Marie and G Nabonnand, but everyone seems to be out of them for the season. If you know of a source that has high quality bushes of them please let me know.

I guess I like a mixed bag. I enjoy most types of roses. I tend to favor the full cabbagey flowers such as Mrs. BR Cant, but I also love the charm of some of the simpler roses like Lady Hillingdon. I think they all look pretty growing near each other. The simple ones balance the big fat ones.

I have had a terrible thrips problem for 2 years. This year is not quite so bd as last year, but still not great. I have "regular" thrips and chili thrips. Some roses have both, some only have one or the other. I have sprayed a couple of times, but do not want to use insecticide very often. When I find dead bees inside a flower that had been treated with systemics it makes me sick. It makes the plants too toxic for them even days after treated.

One bush I absolutely love is Bermuda's Anna Olivier. She has the most gorgeous full blooms, and they last well when cut. I had a few thrips problems early on with her, sprayed her once about 5 weeks ago, and she hasn't had thrips since, unlike many of my other roses. I think she can deal with them on her own.

So....it seems it is not always the fact that the rose is a full bloom making it a problem here, because I have a few that usually have little problem, such as Anna and Mrs. BR Cant. There must be some other factors with genetics involved.

Mrs. Dudley Cross has been a mess lately, probably thrips, but I haven't had the urge to get rid of her.....yet.

For G Nabonnand, try Rogue Valley roses. They have very healthy bands, and last time I checked ( a few days ago) they had it in stock. Also, their customer service is excellent. I recieved a mislabeled SGMC last fall--when it bloomed pink and double, they immediately sent out a replacement. It was at my front door in about three days!

Oh! They have it!

Here is a link that might be useful: Rogue Valley

Thanks for the tip on Rogue Valley. I'm too tired tonight, but I'll get on their site in the morning. I'm hanging it up for the day!

Well, I'm sure jealous of you Texans. I love SDLM, have it and Mystic Beauty as well. They were lovely in the fall but have been miserable this spring and look so awful I'm considering the shovel. No doubt I'll relent because I'm so enamored of the blooms whenever I actually get one.

Colleen

Thrips are bad this year! I finally had to spray most everything one time good and then my roses began to bloom as they should again. However, as mentioned, SDM will ball in Florida to some extent due to our climate. Sometimes I get perfect blooms, and other times I get a balled up mess. It is unpredictable except that rain, which has forgotten Florida, will make it worse.

You will love Safrano! You may want to try Devoniensis, a cream climber. It's bloom is a little simular to SDM, except no disease or balling. The actual bloom is petal packed. It is a great Florida rose.

I feel the same way about my SDLM. I've had the climber for going on four years (yes, patience), and it has yet to impress me. Oh, the blooms are lovely, WHEN it blooms and it can grow up and over and back down an arch. Last year it didn't bloom at all. The year before I think I had maybe 5-6 blooms, though it grew like a monster. This year it died back to the ground and is knee high but has a few (like, 2) buds on it. They're heartbreakingly beautiful when they open, but for a climber that mildews constantly all year, it's been very tempting to replace it.

I did, in fact, order the bush variety this spring. We'll see if it makes me any happier.

One look at the open blooms (without thrips or balling), though, and I can't bring myself to dig it. I'm such a wimp.

Souvenir de la St. Anne's is a much better rose for the southeast, IMHO. I cannot shovel prune SDLM or any of her offspring, because one bloom is worth the travails I go through, but I would recommend SDL St. Anne's as a much better rose. It also has a translucency about it that is just different from any other rose I grow as well.