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How to tell a Winter King from a Washington Hawthorne

14 years ago

I bought a Winter King from a local nusery but I think I really have a Washington Hawthorn instead. The Winter King is supposed to be more desirable since it has almost has non-existant thorns and is more disease resistant. The tree I have has already has had cedar rust on it, it has a lot of long 1 1/2 thorns and it smells bad during bloom. Does this sound like a Winter King to you?

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Comments (8)

stimpy926
14 years ago
Crataegus phaenopyrum have strong triangular shaped leaves, 1-3" long with 3-5 serrated lobes. W.King has elliptic shaped, with 0-3 lobes. Washington's leaves are reddish purple when unfolding, then dark green, King's are medium green.

Both get thorns... 1 to 3" long on Washington, 3/4 to 1-1/2 on King, not as many. Both malodorous.

King blooms mid May,,, Washington blooms later - late May to June.

Any suckering at the base? King is usually grafted.
wouldman
Original Author
14 years ago
There were some suckers down there this year so does that mean its part washington and part winter king?
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The reason it was replanted at this time is because his friend is moving, and his friend dug it up from his yard for him. It was in perfect condition when it arrived here. The root ball was approx 1 ft in diameter. While I was helping him, my neighbor did express the concern that it had not been dug up carefully enough.... It was well watered, and mulched, immediately after transplanting. As for your remarks about soil moisture, I believe that he has not been very careful about this, and how he has watered it in respect to soil dryness or wetness. I will tell him to shade it immediately. Since it has been transplanted, it has been in bright sunlight for most of the day. Luckily the little guy is having a break from the sun today, as we are having a good soaking rain. Can a part of this plant be propagated, given it's unstable condition?
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Victor and Arbordave, thanks for the replies. Next time I'm over at that shopping center I will try take a photo of the trees in question. That might help solve the mystery! I do recall that last year these hawthorns were literally covered in orange/reddish fruits, roughly 3/8" to 1/2" in size. There were so many fruits that the branches looked to be drooping. These trees did have thorns for sure, but not very many thorns. Some branches had none at all while others had several in the 2" to 3" range. I've read online that there are literally a thousand different hawthorn species due to crossbreeding, and that many arborists or local DNR workers can't tell them apart. Having said that, I'm sure I couldnt tell them apart! Winter King does seem to be one of the most popular hawthorns here in Michigan and probably one of the easiest to find as well. We have fairly tough conditions here (wind, summer droughts, cold snowy winters, etc.) so we'd want a hawthorn that did well in those conditions. It will be mulched and watered, but low maintenance is key. Also we have lots of deer so hopefully they don't like harthorns for breakfast! We'll take a look athe local garden centers in the next few weeks and see what we can find. Thanks everyone. Regards, Dave
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Yes Ken, the rose was stressed. No rain except for one week in July where 5.25" came in one night, along with high temps near or exceeding 100 for of months, and overnight low temps of 75, and a sun angle of as little as 13 degrees due to being south (very intense sun) will do that to a new spring planting even if taken care of closely (which it was). It's not as bad yet, but pretty close (96 today and 0.3" since May 24). I have no ideal about Hawthorn resistance, but anytime you transplant something, especially a big something (15' tall says it pretty big), it's going to be very stressed for a while, and weather conditions can make that much worse. Arktrees
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Comments (11)
You did say you intended to"trim them as hedges", but with new info, let us proceed; You can roughly speaking maintain such a plant at such and such a height via pruning. But the reasons you cite for wishing to do so don't strike me as particularly compelling. Wind? If I've ever seen a hawthorn blown over by the wind, I surely don't recall it. These are simply not the kind of trees where that is a concern. I mean, anything can happen, but in this and most other areas of human endeavor, we look at probabilities. When I had a 90 ft. silver maple in my back yard, which tree's crown extended over the houses of the neighbors on both sides of our house....that was a concern for damage. A 15 ft. hawthorn having wind "ripping it out of the ground" just doesn't compute in my world.
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Embothrium
14 years ago
Named selection of Washington hawthorn will also be grafted. What a rootstock might be - if one is present - would be determined by the morphology of the suckers, same as with the scion (part grafted on top).

'Winter King' is a selection from Crategus viridis, with shorter, scattered thorns and other special characteristics. But comparting descriptions (and photos) of C. phaenopyrum and C. viridis should point you in the right direction - if your tree is either of those. Washington hawthorn is probably about the most distinctive of the bunch, starting with the maple-like leaves.
wouldman
Original Author
14 years ago
If i posted a picture of a couple of leaves could you tell me what you think i might have?
stimpy926
14 years ago
Probably

here's W.King

{{gwi:344970}}

and Washington..more triangular, maple-like, as bboy said

{{gwi:344971}}
wouldman
Original Author
14 years ago
I really cant tell which leaf it is, it seems that i have both these types of leaves on the tree. Also on the new growth I have longer thorns than on the inner older parts of the tree.

It's like I have both of these tree in one...Did the grafting do this..Which one will win out?
stimpy926
14 years ago
Rootstock would be sprouting from the base of the trunk, showing a different leaf than the top growth of the tree.

We need pictures...close ups, whole tree...you can email pics if you can't figure out how to post... I'll do it
Embothrium
14 years ago
'Winter King' is a Crataegus viridis cultivar, you could use descriptions and pictures of C. viridis other than 'Winter King' to tell if your tree is one species or the other.

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