Just one man's opinion, but I'd pull the bedline out from the trees 6-10' (towards your house). Turn that bit of lawn into "woodland" beds. A quick tangent here...fact of life...trees and lawn grass have very different nutritional/cultural needs and will compete with each other for those needs...one always suffers or loses. Notice how the areas under tress are always mulched to the dripline at better golf courses (Augusta National is a GREAT example). If you pull the bedline in a few feet, remove the lawn, add mulch, the trees will appreciate it...and it'll give you an area to plant with shrubs and groundcovers to visually bridge between the 2 areas (like woodyoak mentions above). I'm down south, so this is a plant palette I'd consider...indica azaleas, oakleaf hydrangea, bottlebrush buckeye, fothergilla, anise, leucothoe (for medium to larger shrubs farther back, behind the tree trunks); hostas, ivy, ferns, maybe some perennials (for front areas near the edge of the lawn)...this is all assuming the areas get a good deal of shade. You'll need to use a palette that works for your zone and microclimatic conditions. Bottom line, you need to soften the egde by visually pushing the trees back and integrating them better into the woods...as it stands, there's no transition - you've got a very stark and hard edge.

If you are still looking....I recommend that you use bigroot geranium. (geranium macrorrhizum) I am in Menasha Wisconsin and had to remove hostas from my front sidewalk garden under and near silver maple trees...which made my hostas diminish over the years. I took my bigroot geranium and planted it in that space and today it is a beautiful and lush. This plant is not invasive, it survives easily in dry shade, normal shade and even full sun. It handles winter salt from our driveway with no problem at all....much of our driveway snow gets shoveled on top of our geranium garden areas. This is a plant that can be mowed down once it's established, and in 2-3 weeks, you'll have nice fresh leaves. Some people do this after it blooms, I do not. It's blooming right now in my yard, the bloom color is fushia. Even though it's very pretty, I actually love the foliage and would be fine if it didn't bloom at all. This plant has fixed this problem area for me and turned it into my entry into a place of beauty with many compliments. Extremely easy to plant/transplant, the roots are pretty much above the soil, so you just grab some, and plant it below the soil wherever you want some more. I started an area in the spring, using little parts of the roots and by fall in my first season it was nearly covered...the next spring, it was pretty much full and I am just grabbing little pieces of it and planting it in other areas as I want it. Did I mention that this is nearly evergreen...it's one's of the first things to start greening up, well before the lawn and the daffodils...maybe about the time of crocus. It has a lovely pine scent when you touch it and often turns a bit red in the fall. It's my favorite, I can't believe more people don't have it...or that it's rarely seen in our local nurseries. Very hardy. If it goes where you want it, just break off those roots and put them somewhere else!

Well, there is a reference--of sorts, Leslie! It's about 60 years worth of "stuff"--in my head! Been doing this for a long, long time! When I was only 10 or 11 years old I was out--barefoot--waiting on my parents' perennial customers and digging up field-grown plants for them! Have always loved green growin' things! Also helped in my Uncle's greenhouses, right next door, when they got busy and the "grown ups" needed help! My brother in Illinois--even older than me!--still grows/sells bedding plants and veggies for a couple months in spring! The first actual gardening "experience" I remember was when I was three years old and sat down on the grass next to our huge veggie garden to eat some peas, which were what was next to the grass---and I SAT on a bee! My first bee sting!!! But I was already helping plant the "big seeds" by then, so "gardening" goes back pretty much as far as I can remember! Glad to answer any groundcover questions you may have, but if you have specific questions you'll get more answers, from more people, if you start a separate thread about "whatever." Since everybody tends to recommend the things they like the best, you get more variety when more people respond. It's not unusual for variegated perennials to be less vigorous than "plain" ones, but that's not at all always true. Just depends on the plant and the variety. If you're looking at something specific, google for it online and look for comments from "real people." Obviously if you just look at the info from the places that sell it, they're only gonna tell you the "good" things about it! For instance! They will almost never use the word "invasive!" They'll sometimes say something about a plant "spreading," or "covers quickly," but they'll seldom "warn" you that it's going to Eat Your Yard! Same thing's true for plants that are less vigorous or questionably hardy! All they want to do is sell it--and after that it's your problem! So for things you don't really know about, I recommend posting here or searching other forums and such for "user" information. About the Euonymus! That's a woody plant that's usually sold in the nursery rather than the perennial department, so I don't know a whole lot about it! BUT, I do know this! There was one in here when I bought this house. This'll tell you what I think of it! I just looked thru all my albums for a pic of it--and I never took any! The best one I can find is this--which is really a pic of my yellow columbine! The Euonymus is the thing behind the columbine that's going up the wall and up the gutter in the background! When I moved in here, "that thing" was sprawling all the way out, half way in front of the steps in the pic! It was going ALL the way up the wall---and it grows UNDER the siding, wrecking it! I cut down most of it, but left a little bit so there'd be something there till I was able to plant what I wanted in that area. I had NO idea how obnoxious it would be! It roots absolutely anywhere the woody stems come into contact with the soil. And it grows FAST, especially in spring! It will grow thru, around, and "under" just about anything! I still have those "little" pieces" of it in there--which I hack back multiple times each year, but I MUST get new siding, and when I do--it's GONE! As a groundcover? Guess it depends on what you're looking for. When I moved in this stuff was a good two feet high, and the best way I could describe what it looked like would be" Sprawly! It IS evergreen, tho even with limited sun, mine tends to sunburn quite easily in winter when it's dormant. I don't know what variety it is, but it is definitely Euonymus fortunei, and since it's variegated it might very well be 'Emerald Gaiety". Based on my experience I wouldn't recommend it unless someone wanted "something" somewhere like on the edge of a rather large yard to just fill in space--and even then I think it would take considerable effort to keep it from spreading all over the place--unless that's what the person wanted. Also, I had no idea about this, but when I was looking up the variety you mentioned I ran into this. Apparently it's considered to be an invasive species in the Midwest and East. With the drier climate I doubt that it would ever get that bad out here, but I really don't know anymore about it! Have I talked you out of Euonymus yet" LOL! Not really trying to if it happens to fit the situation where you were thinking of using it! For cracks in paths/patios, the easiest to grow and most-likely-to-succeed plant is woolly thyme, Thymus pseudolanuginosis (tho it's been reclassified as other species every now and then, over the years!) Easily identifiable because it has leaves that look more grayish than the other green-leafed thymes, and is slightly "fuzzy" compared to the other thymes. It is definitely the most drought tolerant of the thymes, which is a main factor in its being the easiest to grow in cracks. Tolerates foot traffic very well when it's established. Besides that any of the other creeping thymes would work and take foot traffic well, and while Turkish Veronica, Veronica liwanensis, would work, it's usually considerably less "dense" than the thymes, and it seems to me it wouldn't "fill in" as well, or at least would take a lot longer to do it! The leaves on Turkish Veronica are spaced much further apart on the stems than thyme! Depending on how big the cracks are, you could even put something like the 'Chocolate Chip" Ajuga in them! It will definitely tolerate some foot traffic, but would get ratty looking if it was walked on a LOT. There are lots of other things people recommend, and a separate thread I'm quite sure would get you other recommendations. One important thing when you're planting in cracks is to be sure you have some "decent" soil in the cracks that will hold moisture and nutrients. If your cracks were filled by brushing sand into them, you're gonna have a really, really hard time getting something started in there! With the deadheading/cutting back I recommend with the ground covers, it depends on what it is--and what you want it to look like. I have a small yard, so I'm not really trying to "cover ground" so the "groundcovers" I have are kept in fairly small patches here and there--I have them because I like the way they look! I love to walk around my yard just to LOOK, I do it a LOT, and I like it when things look neat without a lot of dead foliage/flowers or sprawly stems, so I do what I need to do to keep things neat. (I also love sitting out there "doing things" so I enjoy doing it! And--it gives me things to give away at the swaps!!!) If someone had a large area that they just wanted "covered" and wasn't too concerned about the up-close-and-personal appearance of the plants, most of the ground covers can just be left on their own to do their own thing! All the pics I posted above are of plants that have grown out after being cut back. Here are some samples of some of those things when they're blooming, showing how floppy looking they can get! First here are some "before" pics of the one area showing the different "winter evolving to summer" color of some of the sedums. 02.23.08 04.08.08 04.25.08 The sedums in those pics were cut back in late summer or early fall. Now here's what the Sedum hybridum against the fence in the second pic looks like when it's just starting to bloom, and as it blooms more, the flowering stems keep getting longer and longer--and when it's done flowering, the dead, brown flowers stay on the stems unless they're cut off. And here's what the 'Dragon's Blood' looks like when it's just starting to bloom. And here's the other little "succulent garden"--the first thing I planted when I moved in here--because EVERYTHING else was covered by either ROCK or sod! This is when everything still pretty much had its "winter" color! I think this is the only pic I have that shows how PINK the 'Tricolor' sedum gets in winter! And here are a couple with the 'Tricolor' blooming. You can see how they're flopping all over everything, and if left that way they would pretty quickly EAT the things growing near them! If the floppy, sprawling look works for you, you don't mind the brown "leftover" flowers--and there's nothing in the area for them to eat, I say let 'em go au naturale! But I don't have the space, and definitely don't like the "left overs" when they're done blooming. So, like everything else, it just comes down to personal preferences! Boulder people are very definitely welcome at the swap--EVERYBODY is welcome at the swap [except for axe murderers! Inside joke from the first swap!], but if you haven't checked in on the swap thread yet, post to let us know you're planning to come--and you MUST PM Bonnie so she has your address and can send you her address and directions to her place. Darthr, if you have questions about ANYTHING I've posted above, please let me know. Skybird

Cleveland select pear - Noooo o o o o . . . For many reasons it really isn't a great tree. It's invasive in native woodlands in much of the country (something you said wanted to avoid), the blossoms smell dreadful, and the wood is prone to winter damage. Here are some pears near me after a wet autumn snow. I had a few broken lilac branches, but none of my trees other than some of the scrappier white pines had broken branches, and I saw no other trees that were severely enough damaged to need to be removed as these needed to be. If you search these trees on the tree forum you will only get a very few positives vs. many many negative comments. The dogwoods I mentioned in the post yesterday would be much better choices. My Kousa dogwoods have color that rivals the pear and mine has been healthy until last winter's -22 (at least) killed the buds, though it is still working on leafing out now. That shouldn't be an issue for you. If you do go for the crabapple, do a web search to be sure it is a disease resistant variety. As far as the holly - I much prefer holly over yew. I can't grow it here without winter damage, but at least some varieties are hardy in your area. Be sure you get an appropriate boy holly to pollenate your females to get berries. China Boy is supposed to be appropriate for China Doll, but I couldn't find specific hardiness info on China Doll. I think the combination of holly and Hydrangea will be handsome, with the Hydrangea providing summer bloom and the holly providing winter green along with berries for the first part of the winter (before the birds eat them.) I don't know what you mean by barn stone, so I can't answer that part. Where ever you plant the hedges, be sure they are set back far enough so you can see oncoming traffic as you pull out of your driveway.