Bayer 3-in-1 is used as a foliar spray and should have no negative impact on earthworms.

Bayer All-in-One, which is applied as a soil drench, probably should NOT be used if you're interested in maintaining a healthy population of earthworms in your rose garden.

The All-in-One label is silent on the subject of earthworms, but under the "environmental hazards" statement (which is concerned exclusively with water contamination), the labeling warns that the product is HIGHLY toxic to aquatic invertebrates. I assume it would be equally toxic to non-aquatic invertebrates like earthworms.

I'm curious. Are you having a problem with insects and mites right now, and that is why you are thinking of using the Bayer 3-in-1? If not, why do you want to use it, since it has potentially dangerous impact on the environment?

If you need a fungicide, why not get the Bayer Advanced Garden Disease Control for Roses . . . Most of the insect problems can be handled separately IF they occur (they may not) and then by methods that are less toxic than the 3-in-1.

Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of the 3-in-1 type products. There are other ways that are just as effective and much less toxic.

Kate

Thanks, jaxondel, for the info.

Hi Kate

I know that 3 in 1 is bad for the enviornment and I haven't commited to using it. My problem is that i'm afraid. I'm afraid that the insects will come into my garden and eat up all my art work and I won't be able to save it. I know of other methods to try to kill off infestations but what i'd really like to do is prevent them in the first place.

What are your thoughts?

Dale

The best way to prevent problems is to let the 'professionals' take care of it. The natural predators of the bugs you are likely to get. They can only do their jobs if they are still alive, and still in your garden to do it. In this part of the world particularly, if somebody starts complaining about an extremely bad infestation, is going to be about spray habits.

The notable exception to this is Japanese beetles. They are so bad specifically because they aren't on the lunch menu.

Hi Dale,

I'm curious what insects you are protecting against. You're in MA and I'm in CT.... I don't spray any pesticide for insects so I'm curious why you think it is necessary. There are natural insect preditors and of course you don't want to kill bees.

In my garden by far the worst pest is the oriental beetle with the Japanese beetle a far distant second. There is no effective way to really get control of these pests with insecticide so why even try to do it? Also they show up only for about six weeks in July and August anyway. When the garden is at its peak in June and September they are not a problem. I also think spraying for thrips is a waste of time and aphids cause no damage and you can spray them off with a hose.

I would suggest you reconsider using any insecticide because it is harmful and you really don't need it.

Henry

Henry you are my hero. Why not let nature take it's course?

Hi folks
As I said, IÂm just nervous. Local folks right and left tell me how hard it is to control diseases and pests on roses.
I know ya'all have a LOT more experience than I have and this is my first year with roses.
OK, even I can see that the 3 in 1 is bad news .
What about insecticidal soap. Can I use that as a preventative measure or is it used primarily as a treatment (should that be a new thread?)
I really just want to enjoy my future beauties. But I want to be prepared for what might come.
Thoughts?

Dale, I bet you will have pretty much the same problems I face. Stop worrying. Until late June you wont have any insects at all except aphids which you can spray off with soapy water if they bother you. They don't do any harm and ladybugs feast on them. You may get rose midge which causes the growing tips to look like they were burned off but don't spray as it will do no good. You need to treat the soil for midge. Nothing else you see flying around like junebugs do any harm.

At the end of June you will begin to see oriental beetles (OB's )which are beige with black dots or can be all black and which burrow into the rose where they eat the base of the petal. They are about 1/3 the size of Japanese beetles (JB's) and bother mainly whites and pinks. A bit later you will encounter JB's which eat everything but have not been numerous here in recent years. A couple of years ago I had by actual count about 50 JB's the whole season compared to several thousand OB's. It is absolutely impossible to control OB's and JB's by spraying and much more efficient to pick them off which is easier than you think because they tend to be on only about a third of the roses.

People here also obsess about thrips which are tiny little flying insects that munch on whites causing petal damage. This is a big problem some places but not here. On a scale of 1-10 it is a 1 so don't worry about it.

By late August the insects will be gone for good except the bees which will be there every day loving your roses. Now doesn't that sound easy. The big problem we face is BS which you have to control by spraying. I have found that BannerMaxx will absolutely control BS in our area. You need to spray thoroughly at least once every 10 days or so.

Henry

Good advice on this thread. You need to spray preventatively for blackspot, starting now, unless you have carefully chosen the most resistant plants (don't trust catalog claims). I recommend the Bayer Disease Control containing only tebuconazole, available at most Lowe's.

If rose midge develops in your garden (they are not everywhere), you will need to start preventative treatment for that after you have a firm diagnosis.

There is no effective prevention for summer beetle damage.

Other pests are easy. Just scout regularly and bring your concerns to the Forum. Meanwhile, follow Henry's advice about aphids.

Dear Henry

OK, now i'm really scared:)
What can i do to protect my lovelies?
What do you think about my insecticidal soap thought?
What is Midge (it sounds awful) Can I prevent it?
My problem with picking off the beetles is that my rose shrubs are at the back of the border and not reachable
Yikes!
Sorry about all my negatives...

Dale. You are making too much of a big deal out of this. Put a teaspoon of dishwashing detergent in a spray bottle of water and keep it handy to spray aphids when you are walking around admiring your roses. As for midge, you probably wont get it because for some reason it usually takes them years to find your garden. Beetles are a pain but you only get them in July and August when roses are really more trouble than they are worth anyway so just accept it. In the summer roses suffer or shut down in the heat and you can't do much about it so you might as well take a break and get ready for September when they will be beautiful again. Also it takes one to three years here for roses to get established and start to do well so don't expect miracles. And some of the ones you plant wont survive and your ideas about what you want will change. It's a learning process. Henry

Reread the responses you've gotten.

You need to prevent blackspot. If you spend all spring fretting about insects and fail to prevent blackspot, your plants will inevitably defoliate.

You do not need to prevent insects. If a problem arises, we'll be glad to tell you what to do about it, or maybe that you don't need to do anything. There are a few insect pests that recur widely, and these are discussed ad nauseum on the board. If you read the board, you will learn how to diagnose and treat them.

Local folks right and left tell me how hard it is to control diseases and pests on roses.

*** You know what Henry said, about your ideas changing?
That is absolutely true.
So, consider these first roses as "trainer roses," and learn on them.
It IS absolutely true that, with SOME roses, it is difficult-to-impossible to prevent disease.
Happily, there are other roses almost never GET diseases. Or, anyhow, they don't get the diseases
you will deal with.
Over time you will learn which roses are care-free, and which are simply impossible.

You will plant more of the former, and remove the latter, and your garden will prosper.
Diseases will be a rare phenomenon, and you'll be happy when you are in the garden.
Which is to say that having a garden free of both disease and spray free is more a matter of
selection, than of spray.
One way to learn quickly what roses will prosper for you is to see what roses grow well in
public gardens near you.
Or what roses grow well for your nearby neighbors.

Jeri

Thank you all for your patience and kind and knowledgeable advice. As Henry said, correctly, i am making too big a deal about this. I have the Bayer Disease prevention and will use that to battle the Black Spot.
As for the insects...time will tell.

Thank you all again!

Dale

Hi All,
Dale, thanks for asking these questions, because I am in a similar situation, and the answers are very helpful.

I'm hoping you all can help me too.
I live just South of Boston, and 20 miles inland. Zone 6

I planted 20 roses last year, and have chosen to keep a natural (chemicle free) garden.

That being said, I was out admiring (inspecting) all the new leaf growth when I saw that somebody has been eating it all. I found many a little green worm, that looks and acts like an inch worm. He lives in new leaves and creates a make shift cocoon looking thing inbetween a folded leaf.
I would love to know exactly how to kill him! hee hee

My beautiful rose bushes are very bare right now, because they have been almost completely eaten. Any idea of who this bug is and how to get rid of him? Please advise.

Also, just to confirm, the Bayer Disease Prevention you mention above, is a natural product and not a harmful chemicle? I haven't done any BS prevention and just learned here that I should be doing so!

Thanks for your help.

tulipsmiles, Bayer Advanced Disease Control is a synthetic fungicide. It is not organic. To really keep an organic garden, you have to start with roses that are disease resistant in your area, or those that have a moderate amount of defoliation when an outbreak of blackspot occurs.

The work is probably a rose slug, which is being discussed in the thread Dislike insecticides, but....

Tulipsmiles, do a web search for winter moth caterpillars. If that looks like what you have, look in the New England Forum for advice. At this point, it seems to be a very specifically regional pest.

The standard organic control for caterpillars such as you describe isbacillus Thuringensis or bT. It is sold at good garden centers under various brand names such as Thuricide. However, with only a few roses, I would just squish the worms in their nests.