Hi Jeri, Mind reader that I am, here's my guess as to what Susan is responding to: "I happened to see your canes/thorns picture of White Maman Cochet, Cl. I know that Rose Rosette Disease isn't common in California, and it might well be completely normal behavior for that variety (that I don't have), but my Cornelia did the same thing in the fall enroute to coming down with a full-blown case of RRD the following spring. I'd suggest that you just start paying attention to details if you haven't already: www.rosegeek.com." and "Susan, I was potentially bearing bad news. You are totally forgiven if you didn't want to hear it; it's a perfectly normal reaction. I did go to the Antique Roses Emporium and noticed that they say that their Mamam Cochet (the regular pink one) has few thorns, and I felt a little thud in my stomach for you, but I hope I'm totally wrong here. "If you've lived for long with this rose, you might pay attention to your own instincts. That is, has it rather suddenly _changed_? My Cornelia did, though I'd only lived with it for about six months at that point, and I was a relative newbie to roses than. Still, I have a good bit of gardening experience generally, and my gut told me to worry; I almost took the rose out at the point that, in retrospect, I should have taken it out. If only I had, it might have saved me the grief of eventually losing 46 more roses (no kidding). The thing that dissuaded me: the poo-poohs of those far more experienced than I was who said the rose wasn't (yet) showing (the full-blown kind of) RRD symptoms. By the time it did show unmistakeable symptoms, it was too late, and the disease had spread to another rose in a pot... which my husband managed to take and sit right in the middle of all the new rose arrivals in another section of the yard, from which it spread like wildfire over several months' time. "Other early symptoms I found (from different varieties): unusually wonderfully strong scent on a rose that previously had reasonably good and sometimes almost no scent, luscious-looking abundant growth that was so thick you had trouble finding the cane, black thorns that don't necessarily remain black (by the time Cornelia was showing the full-blown symptoms, the black thorns were no longer black), leaves and leaflets that aren't symmetrical, a propensity to come out with Rose Mosaic Virus symptoms when previously the rose was healthy enough to skip showing the RMV symptoms, stipules that are longer on certain canes than on others, clusters of areas of orange-colored canes and stems, flower petal crowding and lack of symmetry on previously symmetrical flowers, and finally, red thorns on a rose that normally has no red thorns. "I hope you _don't_ have this problem, Susan, but I personally suspect that you do, and I'm just thinking that it might turn out better if you're on the lookout now. The best person to address RRD questions to is Ann Peck (email address), the author of the rosegeek.com website." To be clear here: Jeri, I'm not _certain_ of anything. How could I be? I've never seen this rose and I've never grown this variety. But I personally suspect that yes or no on RRD might well be on the way to becoming more clear, by, say, April. I do hope the luck there is hugely better than my own with my Cornellia showing two of these same fall symptoms. Actually, I didn't see the third symptom Susan's rose appears to already have--red thorns--until the following spring. It's important to note that my experience is with Cornelia, not a Mamam Cochet of any version, and someone who knows about thorniness on Mamam Cochet could offer the best insight. I'm figuring that the low-thorns note at Antique Rose Emporium isn't a good sign, but perhaps the clone Susan has might have come from thornier stock than ARE's? The most important point is probably the length of Susan's own experience with the rose and what she knows as normal for that particular clone over the years. No one else has knowledge of that; Susan is the expert on her own rose. It's hard to see the black thorns in my poorly angled and lit picture (look upper middle-right near some yellowed leaflets), but at Garden Web you can see three pictures of my Cornelia at the point I first began to notice a sudden change (symptom 1) from a low-thorned to a high-thorned rose, and was wondering about (symptom 2) the black thorns that were suddenly visible only on a few canes. (The picture of a growth tip wasn't a worry to me, but in referring others to the condition of my rose at that point, I thought I ought to post a picture of a growth tip too.) Best wishes, Mary Here is a link that might be useful: Cornelia with the very earliest of RRD symptoms

I agree 100% that the name of the vendor should not be revealed on this forum, but I couldn't DISAGREE more with the decision not to contact the vendor regarding this situation. Mr. Gleason states that he 'had a hard time believing it could be RRD because the plant was brand new.' In this instance we've no way of knowing what constitutes 'brand new' -- ie, how much time actually elapsed between the arrival of the plant in his garden and the first sign of RRD. No reputable dealer will ever knowingly ship RRD infected plants, and would certainly be aware that shipping even a few such roses would be the quickest way imaginable to completely destroy what is probably, at best, a struggling business. In fairness to the vendor, I think it is absolutely essential that the matter immediately be discussed with her/him in a concerned, non-confrontational way. One would hope that the vendor and the buyer would have ongoing contact as environmental factors are explored on both ends of the transaction. We're dealing with a scourge that is likely to have a more widespread and devastating impact than any of us care to contemplate. The possibility -- even if it's remote -- that RRD has invaded commercial nurseries and is being transported around the country via the mail is sobering. I'm having difficulty understanding Len511's fear that contacting the vendor privately might result in litigation. I think such a reaction is highly improbable, and, if I may be blunt, it's my personal feeling that not contacting the vendor is irresponsible.

Stephan - I think RRD spread in this area because I was oblivious (for months!) about a badly infected Veichenblau growing over a shed two years ago. The New Dawn on the shed seems fine but a Paul Transon about 20 feet downwind showed witches broom growth this year. I just took it out along with an adjacent Albertine as they both really needed at least 20 feet each - space I don't have. This Prosperity is the next rose downwind. I am just going to go ahead and move it as the new spot is a bit away from other roses. I removed growth similar to that on the Prosperity - laterals larger than the main cane - from an American Pillar growing on an enormous pine nearby. I'd really hate to lose that one. I don't worry too much about red growth as that is normal for so many of my roses. I was trying to find some something I read in Ann Peck's ebook about the mites dropping near fences and hedges? My quarter-acre property is almost completely enclosed. Thanks for all the input.

Hello Desertgarden, I can assure you that you can continue to grow great roses when you move to Dallas, I live there myself . No greenhouse is needed. But tell your husband you’ll need a really big rose garden, because they grow fast here! I have already detailed my RRD experience in Kim’s (Roseseek) ‘great pause’ thread, and I agree with the advice from Patty and Lilyfinch above. Good vigilance and cultural practices are key. Some of my own healthy happy Dallas garden roses below: I’d encourage you to visit the Farmer’s Branch Rose Gardens in suburban NW Dallas once you get here. There are thousands upon thousands of roses grown spray free in an open and very populated part of town, and yet , no symptoms of RRD. It’s an David Austin and Earthkind trial ground, too. The curator Pam Smith has also detailed her experience with RRD in a video, I’ll see if I can find it. The FB Rose garden itself: https://farmersbranchtx.gov/248/Coming-Up-Roses Less than a two hour drive from Dallas is the town of Tyler, TX, one of the biggest rose growing centers in the US. They have a grand municipal rose garden, too. Chamblees is based there, as well as David Austin and Certified Roses’ growing fields...there are tons of healthy roses in North Texas, despite the presence of RRD. Welcome to Dallas, and please don’t hestitate to PM me if you have any questions of rose growing or otherwise.