My best performing coneflowers are older: Magnus, White Swan and Kim's Knee High. Of the newer coneflowers, Sunrise has done the best - it's two years old now and is a big bushy clump. I also planted Hope and Fragrant Angel in the spring of 2006 and they were puny last year, but this year Hope looks much better. Fragrant Angel is still pretty small, but also looks better than last year. Little Giant and Kim's Mophead died over the winter a couple years ago.

Juliet

How do and how fast do any of these spread for you? I just bought 3 of the double decker from bluestones sale.

Thanks
Karyn

I've posted about these before. I feel lucky after reading all these posts. I bought 4 on ebay last spring - Sunrise, Sunset, Harvest Moon, and Summer Sky. They were plugs that were repotted into the next size up pot right before I bought them. I could tell that by how the root systems were are in the center of the pot.

They seemed slow to settle in, but did eventually. All bloomed and I was satisfied with what I saw. I held my breath all winter, wondering if they were going to come back. All did and each has already set buds, soon to bloom. I couldn't be more pleased with them, but I know I will worry every winter that may not be there the next spring. The older, pink ones such as Magness, or Bright Star were ones you could always count on.

Linda

It's strange how these things are so unpredictable. One of my After Midnight plants is blooming now and looks so much more colorful than last year. I was able to get 2 basal cuttings off of it yesterday. They both had roots already! The other 4 After Midnight plants are in plant heaven! They all received the same water, etc. in the same flower bed. They all were purchased at the same place. I'm going to experiment with different lighting and locations with these plants and see if I can come up with some advice for others about what works with them.

Linlily, I am curious how you were able to purchase these plants on eBay. The Big Sky Echinacea are all patented plants and unlicensed propogation is prohibited. Do they have licensed distributors on eBay or are they selling them illegally?

I remember reading about people selling a supposedly blue peony called "Blue Lagoon" on Ebay. Auctions were bid up to ridiculous prices. Well, there is no such cultivar and there is no blue peony, and the poor suckers discovered after a year or 2 that the peonies were pink when they bloomed.

Terrene, one of the Ebay sellers (Perfect Plants) is actually Park's/Wayside. They do have a license. There are some licensed nurseries on Ebay as well.

Well -- I have to say that I am very happy so far with my Sundown echinacea. 3 have come back reliably after 2 winters now, and I've just added 2 more. I've got Sunrise going in another spot, and they look really healthy too.
I also have 1 or 2 Twilights -- they are shorter, and I am having a hard time seeing them among the Sundowns, but I am pretty sure they are there.

I think we hear dissatisfied voices more often than satisfied ones, so perhaps that's why it seems that "Too many people have had trouble with these plants." I am pretty certain that Saul Nursery tested them before launch.

ML

My take is that so many perennials are 100% perfect that when one has a little problem it is heard about very loudly.

These plants don't have a "little problem." There are places which no longer sell them because they don't over-winter well. Echinacea plants are usually very reliable perennials. These aren't. I would say that a perennial that isn't reliably perennial is a big problem.

I have to agree with echinaceamaniac. I do not expect any perennial to be 100% perfect. I have lost my share of many plants. However, for the price of these plants, the problems are overwhelming.

Over the past three years, I have lost 4 of 4 Sunrise, 4 of 4 Sunset, 2 of 2 Twilight, 2 of 2 Sundown, 3 of 3 Orange Meadowbrite, 1 of 2 Mango Meadowbright, 2 of 2 After Midnight, 2 of 2 Fatal Attraction. Both my Harvest Moon reappeared this year. However, one is a foot tall, and the other is 2" tall, and they are right next to each other! I also had Razzmatazz for two years, but it never did sprout its 'top hats' and eventually died. My only reliable bloomer is Fragrant Angel. It is now 5 years old and still going strong. And of course the old standby Ruby Star and White Swan.

This year, I got Tiki Torch, which is gorgeous, Raspberry Tart, Coconut Lime and Virgin. I am hoping that at least one of these plants lives to next year.

I do not mind spending a bit more for an unusual or new variety, but I expect that plant to at least live, even if its blooms are not what I expected. I have bought dozens of new varieties of heucheras over the last few years and only lost one. But as for the new echinaceas, maybe they need to start selling them as annuals.

O.K., now I'm nervous about the "Twilight" I just bought. Do any of you think extra mulch over the winter might help it survive? I also bought "Ruby Star" and "White Swan", so It's good to know those two are reliable. I couldn't find "Tiki Torch" locally, so I'll probably order that from an online source. Any recommendations? Kathy

Sorry to hear about your Razmatazz kowalleka. They are actually one of the most reliable plants for me. Both of mine came back this year. Coconut Lime is reliable too. I planted mine late in the fall and it still came back strong and larger than last year. I was able to divide a baby plant from it this afternoon. Now I have 2 of them!

I'm hearing terrible things about the new echinaceas locally, too, though personally I'm not having problems -- yet. I planted three Twilight and three Fatal Attraction last year. They all came through the winter and now are budding normally. They bloomed for a long time last summer; I'll have to see how they look and how long they bloom this year. This spring I added three Merlot. I compost with mushroom manure after the first hard frost, but that's really all they got. I'm sure it's luck, and, of course, they could all disappear in a really tough winter.

But you don't want to get me started on coreopsis either. . . .

My Sunset looked wonderful last summer - I loved it. It started out robustly this year, but in the last 10 days we've had over 5 inches of rain (unusual for us), and it's on its way out. I'm disappointed! I plan to get another one and plant it in a spot that not only doesn't stay as wet, but I'll make a little hill for it.

Deanna

I had problems my first year with Magnus! I lost 1 out of 3 White Swan last year, and one of the 2 survivors was very small, and is just now pushing new growth (but, to be fair, I did move it). So it isn't all about the Big Sky series. I think the problem is the aster yellows, which is caused by leafhoppers, and is not easily contolled.

Here is a link that might be useful: Aster Yellows

Strange. The only ones I have had trouble with is Sunset, with distorted petals and finally lost both. Even the ones that I planted during the drought last summer and I thought had died, have returned. I love the colors. This is just the third year for some and the second for others so I am hoping they get bigger with more blooms. The one that blooms the most is Fragrant Angel. Love it. But I want more Sundown blooms. Love the blooms and perfume of Sunrise. Unfortunately a woodchuck just discovered my garden and this is his favorite plant. He pruned the tops off all my echinacea and barely touched anything else. I just got some Shake-Away and spread it around the bed and each echinacea. I hope it does the job so that they can bloom this year.

The Sundown keep looking better. That's a miscanthus 'Cosmopolitan' providing a backdrop of white/green variegated leaves. This is a slope, so my coneflowers are downhill mid-way between a vitex and the miscanthus. East side of house.

{{gwi:233651}}

Oh Cameron! I love that combination! Beautiful, just beautiful. What is the little yellow bloom next to the coneflower?

That is a hypericum. Mounded shape, loaded with blooms when it gets going. It's a nice St. Johns Wort that behaves itself (unlike some more invasive types). It is deciduous, but it blooms and blooms. The bumble bees go crazy on it, then they just hang out on the blooms in exhaustion! They love it. Mellow yellow for bumbles.

There are 3 Homestead Purple verbena surrounding the hypericum that have been blooming continuously...I need to deadhead now.

I will have to say I agree with you echinaceamaniac my big sky series sucks !The only one I seem to have had any success with is harvest moon!The rest are all deformed looking and I have many of them all!

This is my first season for bright orange 'Big Sky Sundown'. I paired it with daylily 'Hot Toddy'. Even though 'Hot Toddy' is labeled as azalea pink petals w/bright pink ribs & amber throats, it was orange. I was delighted with the beautiful combination until Sundown faded to a washed out pink. However, I will give Sundown another year.

This string makes me sad. I really love Summer Sky and was going to plant some this fall, but now!!! My one White Swan didn't make it through last winter. It was rotted when everything else was waking up. Ohh if they were not so pretty I would give up on coneflowers. My Magnus, species and random babies do fine. What to do? What white conflowers have you found hardy? Are there any other coneflowers with that peach-pink color of a fresh Summer Sky flower?

A couple of messages here talk about 'cuttings', or 'basal cuttings', but the descriptions sound as if all you are doing is removing small side shoots??

Am I missing something? Are you really taking cuttings, or just waiting until the plant makes babies?

madtripper,

The easiest way is to remove the side shoots, but you can root cuttings if you try hard enough. I'm experimenting with this chemical called Configure. It forces coneflowers to put up many side shoots. Let's just say after 5 days, I'm very impressed!

I, too, have had bad luck and won't invest any more money in the trendy new colored cone flowers. I'll stick with the tried and true. I had an orange-y one (called Meadowbrite, I think?) It struggled mightly last year and put off a couple flowers this summer, then died while all the Magnus around it thrived and expanded.

Wow. I'm glad I read this thread as I was about to buy a few Big Skys. Any opinions on Merlot, Tomato Soup, Doppelganger?

I have another post above on this thread. My 4 different Big Sky Echinacea are up and growing well. They are doing great here in zone 5/6 and I feel that I can recommend them. This is the beginning of their 3rd full year here. Visitors to my yard always comment on them when they are in bloom.

Linda

I wasn't happy with any of my Big Skys either. I hope that I change my mind this year.

I planted Sunrise, Sunset last year. Only Sunrise survived the winter. Sunset is RIP. I'll never buy another Big Sky series coneflower again.
Also, this is my SECOND try at growing Tiki Torch. I planted it last autumn, and it didn't make it through winter at all. So, this spring I planted another one to see if the long summer would help. We'll see, but I'm not impressed so far. I had high hopes for this one. :(

My Big Sky Sunset has disappointed. Planted in the spring, looked promising for awhile, then the blooms faded quickly, looked sickly and then the foliage developed this bronze cast to it and looks sick. Not sure if now it may have a disease.

Well I can Ditto the subject of this posting. I purchased
After Midnight, and Summer Sunset year before last, and they both died, I got two Kim's Knee High at the the same time, and this is thier second yeart doing marvelous. I found a really healthy nice looking After Midnight today for 6.00. I am going to try it one more time, in a spot which gets a bit more Sun. I really love the color, and hope it survives.

I couldn't agree more. I've spent hundreds of dollars on the Big Sky series and your descriptions are exact to the flower.

On another note, I had some beautiful Tennessee coneflowers for two years. They all died rather suddenly. Any ideas / experience on why or how to avoid this again would be greatly appreciated. THey are one of my favorite coneflowers.

My Aftermidnight is doing great! Also, I'm happy to say my Tiki Torch is doing wonderful finally! Maybe some just need time, and need to survive the winter! lol

Here's some pics:

Tiki Torch

{{gwi:237657}}

After Midnight

{{gwi:237659}}

Summer Sky and Sunrise are the most vigorous of the bunch and other than the fact the Sunrise you buy are almost all now infected with aster yellows (and many other coneflowers, but it seems this series is the worst), they've both been great performers over the years. After Midnight is the worst of the bunch, and considering that Merlot, Vintage Wine, and Fatal Attraction are all darker and more vigorous, it isn't worth the time, effort, and $. (having said that, mine is downright gorgeous this year) NONE of the new hybrids are as vigorous as straight purpurea, and none should be treated as such. When grown properly, all can be successfully grown into z4, maybe even z3 for some of them. I've had success with all of the Big Sky series (there are 2 new ones for 2011) and all of the Terra Nova varieties from 2009 and earlier. I expect that the new varieties for this year and early releases for 2011 that I have will perform as admirably.

The Plant Geek
www.confessionsofaplantgeek.blogspot.com

Here is a link that might be useful: part 3 of my coneflowers blog posts- hybrid echinacea

You know I am glad I found this thread. I have 5 echinaceas and while I am happy with some I am unhappy with my Summer sky and Tomato soup. I don't know the names to 3 of them-two look like black eyed susan and the third has creamy off white petals, I love these cone flowers. That is why I got the others. This year is the first year for both summer sky and tomato soup to bloom but I am disappointed in color and size. Summer sky seems really washed out and tomato soup is TINY. I was also expecting more of a deep red from tomato soup and what I got is a reddish orange color. Should I give them another year or just get rid of them now? I was really expecting bold colors and nice sized flowers like that of my "black eyed susan" look-a-likes(size wise).
I do have to speak of their vigor though they over wintered in pots in zone 4 and they are doing pretty well on the growing front. They have been in pots all summer with this strange heatwave with no extra water lately, very forgiving and hardy. You know maybe on second thought I will keep them just because of that......hmmmmmmmmmmm................

Dud's for me too,
I'm in zone 6, i see that in zones 7 they are surviving
tried the sunset series a few years back the first year out, lost a whole bed 189.00, I just picked up a sundown at a local shop (clearance) and had the discussion about this plant he said they are going to have to market it as an annual in the north, plants start out as perennial and when they don't make the winters they re-market them as annuals, this ones color looks awfully faded. it sure isn't the prettiest one

Well, 3 years after this thread started, my Sunrise and Summer Sky are still alive. But the flowers on the Sunrise are almost always deformed, and I don't like the color on the Summer Sky - too orange for my taste, which then fades out to anemic pink. The other annoying thing about these hybrids is that they cross-pollinate with the E. purpurea and I get a hodge podge of mostly ugly seedlings that are tall and rangey with washed out pink blooms. They got shovel pruned this year.

I am sticking to the straight species E. purpurea, and its cultivars. I love White Swan, am starting others from seed - Pow wow wild berry, Primadonna White, etc., and bought some 'Prairie Splendor' from Bluestone this year.

Also I have one small bloom on the E. paradoxa this year, started from seed (your seeds E-maniac).

Awesome! I like paradoxa. I've been experimenting with it this year. I have some that I planted close to a rose bush. The blooms looked nice peaking out from them!

I posted here in May of '09. I have to disagree. So far, all my Big Sky Echinaceas are still going strong. And they've given me a few interesting seedlings. This year is the first year I've ones that are pink. Most have looked like the the parent, excetp for Sunrise, which has never gave me any volunteers.

I posted this on a previous thread a couple of weeks ago:
{{gwi:237661}}

This is a volunteer from Sundown. The only other Echincea anywhere near it on this side of the house is Paradoxa. I suspect that it is a cross between Paradoxa and Sundown. The color has held well in these last couple of weeks, and there are tons of flowers that have opened on this 43 inch tall plant. The cone smells like paradoxa and has the same hard feel.

So, I have to disagree - I love the Big Sky Series Echies.

Linda

My Big Sky sundown was fantastic for 3 years then didn't come back this year. After Midnight, a dud. Summer Sky is doing wonderfully, as is the morning one. Pow Wow Berry, bought this year, is thriving. No luck on Green Envy. Irresistable, bought this year, is weird but doing okay. So many of those that you all mention are ones I've never ever seen in any of my travels in search of new plants.

capecodder, you just reminded me...I lost a Pow Wow Wild Berry that was given to me last fall by a gardening friend. It was put in the same time as four others - Bright Star, Ruby Star, Milk Shake, and another one that I need to check the tag on. PWWB was the only one that did not come back. And all of these were planted in the same general area, with the same soil.

As to ones that you never see at local garden centers, box stores, etc, there are new varieties of Echinacea coming out every year now, and I've gotten to the point that I can no longer keep up with them and keep them all straight as to which is which color. Maybe old age....

I still would like to find E. Pink Poodle, but I've read so many posts about it sometimes not looking at all like the picture. Still, I'd love to give it a try!

Linda

Linlily, that pic is very pretty, if my seedlings looked like that they sure wouldn't have gotten shovel pruned! Perhaps you get more interesting plants when crossing the Big Sky plants with E. paradoxa than with E. purpurea.

I did actually get one seedling I liked, it looked as though Sunrise had crossed with the Echinacea Rocky Tops, which I believe is Tennessee Coneflower? It had the same flower shape as E. tennesseensis but was much taller. Flowers were great for cutting! Unfortunately the rampaging voles ate that one this past winter. :(

In the same bed, terrene, are two regular looking pink ones. They are nice and tall but look like the regular E. purpurea. I'm going to ask neighbors if they would like to have them. They are growing right up next to my Sundown and I need to move them.

I think you might be right about crossing the Big Sky plants with E. Paradoxa. You might get something really special and different. I have a friend who has offered to grow out some of the seeds from my tangerine orange seedling just to see what we get. I'm definitely taking her up on it. Since Paradoxa has been blooming about the same time as this seedling, maybe more crossing has taken place by the bees. You just never know.

It's really awful that the voles ate your tall cross. It sounds like a really nice plant and I love the idea of the tall flowers.

Linda

fully agree - rubbish, all of them. Several nurseries and our university botanics no longer bother with these (expensive) primadonnas

I don't understand, campanula. If they are rubbish, why do some of us have so much success growing them? I've had other perennials, such as numerous delphiniums, through the years, that have lasted 2 or three years and disappeared? My Big Sky Echies are now 5 years old and look as good now as they did in year 2. And mine where purchased on-line as replanted plugs in 3 inch pots. I just don't think you can make a generalization like that and it be a valid point.

Linda

I wish I'd found this forum before I invested in several Summer Sky plants. I posted over on the Far North forum originally but didn't get a lot of feedback. I have to agree with the first poster: these plants suck. All of the foliage except for one leaf died back after planting and that one surviving leaf is now also dead. Over the years, I've been growing species and its cultivars with no problem. The 'Milkshake' and 'White Swan' are doing great, all planted at the same time with the same care as the Big Sky. An expensive experiment and a lesson well-learned.

I'm from Denmark , theoretically zone 6-7. Not only Big Sky Series, but nearly all the other fancy ones were a total failure here. The plants die just because you look at them. Sometimes they survive the winter just to shrink to nothing during the spring. If they survive their flowers are distorted. The list of total rubbish include: The whole Big Sky series, Tiki Torch, Fragrant Angel, Art's pride. Meringue is a very weak grower here, as well as Double Pink Delight and Fatal Attraction. Of the newer ones, only one returned bigger than last year: Hot Summer.

Plants that thrive: Razzamatazz, Coconut Lime, Champagne Bubbles, Hope, Avalanche, White Swan. Hot Papaya looks to be vigorous.

Well what was left of the 1 Sunrise has been eaten by voles. 2 of the 3 original Summer Sky are hanging on, but I am again dismayed at how quickly they fade out.

It is true Linlily, that these plants have done okay for a few people, and that there is a long list of other species' fancy cultivars that have failed for me too. IMO, the rate of failure of the new Echinaceas is too high to justify the expense. I don't plan on buying any more of them until (maybe) they have proven their staying power.

In the meantime, my seedlings of Echinacea Pow Wow Wild Berry, Primadonna White, and Bravado are overall doing very well. We'll see how they do - it's kind of an experiment, but a lot less expensive one than buying plants.

What I really hate about this flower is the razor sharp needle-like seeds! Now THAT SUCKS! Add to that I was spreading this demon seed while my hands were very sensitive. Not Fun.