Compost over whole yard?

10 years ago

(Crosspost from Xeriscape/Southwest Board)
We are fairly new to gardening and very new to xeriscape and are now converting our Albuquerque, NM lawn to xeriscape. The grass is 99% dead after stopping watering last year and moving earth to reshape the area. We had originally planned to put down newspaper/cardboard, then compost and then mulch to kill the grass before moving forward but now that the grass is already dead, we are wondering if we should still cover the entire 55x45 area with compost or simply mix in compost at each planting site. We are planning to plant about 50% of the space and will be using mostly native plants that will eventually (theoretically) survive on only rainwater after 3-4 yrs. Given our drought, we know we will likely need to still supplement with some watering. We are converting our sprinkler to drip. The soil is very hard (we have to use a pick ax to even dig down a few inches) and the grass was definitely not thriving before we killed it. We added 10 cu yrds of sandy fill dirt doing the hardscape but that has not been mixed in everywhere yet.

We want to start off on the right foot but don't want to over do it either.

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Comments (11)

greenthumbzdude
10 years ago
I would not add any compost....xeric plants survive in areas with poor soil....adding compost will mess with drainage and provide excess nutrients xeric plants can do without.
tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM
10 years ago
I disagree. I would absolutely add compost but there is concern for overdoing it. Honestly, I would spread it over the whole area and work it in. My xeric plants still like some organic matter, just not as much as my roses. The compost will help with the soil food web which is still necessary in a desert environment and will help the plants deal with the stresses of drought better.

The problem with putting compost in just the holes is that will create a bathtub effect which is even more dangerous to xeric plants, that do not like excess moisture. It would be a definite problem as when it rains here in NM, it often comes done all at once, fast and hard. If there is OM in all of the soil, it will help store the water.

You have great bones started, good luck. I can tell you one thing I have learned about xeric plants, they like water while they are getting established so do not skimp too much in the early stages (cannot tell you how many plants died on me because I underwatered them the first season).
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Being that you are in the PNW, you might try one of the improved varieties of Velvet bentgrass or colonial bent. I don't know much about either but that would be a unique choice and I think your climate could comfortably support it. This of course would be if you enjoy working on your lawn and want to mow it short for a look similar to a putting green. You asked about what to level the ground. If you've got extreme problems you would want to hire a tractor service to use a box blade. You might be able to rent this equipment. Otherwise you can do it manually by bringing in soil and shoveling and screeding and smoothing and packing it into place. This is a very time consuming task. So much so that *I*, as a very determined person, didn't even have it in me to completely do my back yard. You asked about ammending your soil and claim to have "poor clay soil". I am of the belief that clay soil is not poor soil. Jam packed with nutrients and retains water in case you are in eastern washington somewhere that is very dry, this clay soil will help with drought and establishment. The only reason I would suggest doing it is to improve drainage if that is even necessary such as if you were constructing a home putting green or were using some grass that really needed well drained soil. I also would not till your existing grass into the soil since you probably don't want this existing grass to come back. Even if you ignore all the advice not to till, you still need to rake out the dead grass and this will be back-breaking work, I assure you. You would want to contact your local prison and see if you can get a chain gang out there to do that!!! Now if you want to add organic matter to the soil, you simply topdress the lawn with it. You don't blend it into the soil. It will find it's way down there eventually. One more thing. Having dead grass there (mowed very short) when you reseed is very helpful to hold the seed in place in the event you plan to use seed. A heavy rain shower can ruin the entire project if you're unlucky.
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I think the SL Trib article I originally read addressed the issue of CWD (I don't think BSE would be an issue with deer, would it?). Since both CWD and BSE are caused by prions, they wouldn't be destroyed by composting. I don't remember what they were doing about it, but I seem to recall that they felt there was more danger in disease transmission if the deer were left to rot in the open than if they were composted. They may also have been limiting how they used the compost. I thought BSE was transmitted by cattle feed with ground up meat and bones, not uncomposted manure. Here is a link to an FDA fact sheet. Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on BSE. Both mention feed containing meat and bone meal. The Wikipedia article mentions blood and fecal matter, but only as a theoretical source of BSE. If the prions responsible for BSE are present in the manure, composting it won't destroy them, since prions survive much higher temperatures than even the hottest compost piles produce.
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Until last year, I used to garden for my mother-in-law when I visited (2-3 times a year) and you could go to a pick-up place in one of the county parks (?) and take all the compost you wanted for free. I think you were supposed to be a resident, but no one was there to check. While I wasn't a resident, she was, so I felt ok about it. Over the years, I did it many times. I never had a truck, just my m-i-l's very fancy car, but I just saved the bags from when I bought other amendments or potting soil for her, and reused those and other assorted containers. Anyhow, I am not suggesting that you go to a different county to scam free compost, but that you look at other sources if you aren't happy with the compost from WF. BTW, compost from yard waste is perfectly fine to use. It heats to a much, much higher temp than home-made compost and is very, very unlikely to contain any weed seeds or pathogens. Aphids won't survive even home composting. Heck, they won't survive a blast of water from the hose. You can compost them yourself quite safely. "Some kind of mulch" is a whole 'nother story. Whatever that is, could, indeed, have brought in oak root fungus or some other disease. This would be especially true if the mulch was un-composted oak bark chips or something like that. But oak root fungus is so widespread in your region, your friend could have gotten in any number of ways. It often is dormant for many years before it starts showing symtoms, so it would be impossible to say it was "brought" in by any one item. If you can't get compost in your county for free, go to the nearest nursery or Home Depot and buy it. I would bet you nearly anything it would be cheaper than WF.
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User
10 years ago
Definitely add a moderate amount of compost, or use it as mulch to retain moisture.

I have my xeriscape plants heavily mulched and they seem to like it, as do the birds. Mostly it's natural leaf drop, so I'm saving water and work. :)

And ditto to what TishTosh said .,.. drought tolerant plants need good supplemental watering until they are established, then you can taper off the following years.
glib
10 years ago
I am not expert in desert gardening, but in my tough clay I get miserable crops if I do not amend. and the way to amend is to turn the whole place over, turning bags and bags of leaves (or kitchen scraps) under. The earthworms will then do the rest, and in the process continue to break the dirt. I can not do it in every bed every year (I only do it in beds which will receive transplants), direct seeding beds have to be left undisturbed. If I were to start a new place, I would certainly do a major working in at the beginning, probably a foot of OM. Note I do not use compost, the earthworms need to eat. I use partially decomposed leaves, and patience.
toxcrusadr
10 years ago
I was going to make some suggestions, having spent some time gardening in Albq. The advice above from NM and AZ posters is way better than any that I could offer.

I am not even sure there are earthworms in that kitty litter that passes for soil in Albuquerque. :-]
Kimmsr
10 years ago
Prior to the coming of the know it all Europeans the Zunis, in your area of the world, practiced what is today called waffle gardening, small plots with amended soil that could easily be watered with the available water.
In these small plots the Zunis apparently (I was not there) could raise enough food to feed themselves, and have enough left to provide seeds for next year. Back then, I am told, there were no garden supply shops around the corner.

Here is a link that might be useful: waffle gardening
User
10 years ago
The problem with "waffle gardening" is that it also requires high stone walls around the plots for wind protection, and daily watering of the plants in the gardens. Or did you miss that part of the explanation?

And, what works on the Colorado Plateau doesn't always work in the Rio Grande Valley. Weather patterns are different, soil composition is different.

And, altitude counts heavily in a state with a range of 2800 feet to 13,000+ feet. What grows in the "east mountains" often struggles in the ABQ valley, and vice versa. And what grows well in the Rio Abajo usually dies in Taos.
Mackel-in-DFW
10 years ago
Hey-ay, hey-ay (Kimmy)-

What's the matter with your feel right ?

Here is a link that might be useful: Tribute
User
10 years ago
Michelle -
There's a guy named jason roback with a native plant nursery east of ABQ. He raises his own from seed and sells at the big Saturday swap meet most of the late spring and summer. (If he's still growing)

And the Pueblo of Santa Anna (by Bernalillo) has a native plant nursery
http://www.santaana.org/plants.htm
Mackel-in-DFW
10 years ago
Cool! M

This post was edited by Mackel-in-DFW on Thu, May 8, 14 at 11:28
Laurel Zito
10 years ago
From the photo, I can't see you over doing it for many years, that soil will take all the compost you can make and add, maybe if you hired a company to rip it up and add tons and tons of compost, it could be too much, but what you can make will not be too much. I have been compost for years and I never have too much compost. As long as the soil is mixed in, don't plant in straight compost.

Compost over whole yard?

Comments (11)

greenthumbzdude

tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM

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