I buy from the box stores,it's convenient large selection, on sale or some such thing. I can always return it if not satisfied without answering a lot of questions, most of there junk I can repair or modify it to work better.
Now i can always go buy from a independent shop, more expensive, complicated to repair and shop rates are too high for me, I'm rough on equipment and ruining a $400 dollar tool is as easy as a $100 one. Hopefully not too many people feel like I do, I do believe in buying quality, just NOT OPE !

IMHO people shop by price. A bigbox store gets a volume discount and can pass that along to customers who buy without any regard to future service. Fine, buy a cheap mower, run it until it dies from lack of maintenance, throw it away. That is the modern practice. To offer service adds to your overhead. I dont see how you can get around this unfortunate turn of events.
I thrive on this sad practice, my OPE is mostly castoffs. I have only 2 tools purchased new. One is 30 yrs old. I may by a few parts from you, but I do my own maintenance.
So, between those 2 ends of the spectrum is you, offering a quality line of equipment that you service and stand behind. I wish you the best of luck. You are doing things right, but I dont think you stand a chance against the Big box outlets. I truly hope I'm wrong.

Ah ha!! I saw a similar trend to both of your answers. The fact is I can sell the same equipment, exact same, for the same price as well. The thing is that retail price will always be the same but they may have a higher profit margin than I do. If something happens to go wrong with your new product I can actually fix it and tell you what happened instead of standing there with a dumb look on my face. So, if I was selling the same equipment at the same price and know what I am talking about when you asked me a question; would you still at that point continue to buy from a box store?

Independent dealer's are sometimes cheaper. I just bought a Honda HS520A single stage snow thrower from my local independent dealer for $50 less than the big box store. He took the time to explain the equipment and showed me other competing brands (Toro, Ariens). The Honda snow thrower was correctly assembled and adjusted (I read the owner's manual and checked!). He also stocks parts if / when I need them in the future. I tend to buy quality equipment and keep it for a long time. That's a lesson I've learned the hard way.

Don

For awhile, big box stores had this perceived advantage over other retailers and servicing dealers. It would be an interesting poll to find out if J.Q. Public still has this false perception. Price, selection, quality, knowledge seems to be lacking in the box store (and not just in ope)

Now on to growing your business. You know your customers and the cost of getting them in your door and even having a door for that matter. You can keep doing what your doing and improve along the way. You can also get the BBS customers as well. It sounds like you have a BBS near you? Do you provide service for their customers- warranty or otherwise? Does your store appeal to them draw them back in if they do visit your store?

I ran a large dealership to where we not only courted BBS customers but earned many of them as our customers as well. Get to know the key people in the BBS. IE in Home Depot, you need to know the RTV person and at the very least the manager of lawn and garden. Others in the dept are a big plus. The store manager would love to know you are an avenue to solve his headache with a nightmare customer.
Define the advantages of why someone should be your customer first- and don't keep it a secret. IE Buy here and get free proper setup, delivery, priority service, service reminders, free blade sharpening mid season with a spring PM purchase, etc. Priority service is a huge benefit if your in the snow belt. When there is a foot of new snow on the ground everyone wants to get their equipment going fast. Sure, you'll honor the warranty of the machine bought at HD- but the customer that bought from you gets bumped up a week or? As a customer, it really bites when you hear that the repair list is out 2 weeks or a month when the second snow storm is coming in for the week and he's dead in the water.

A dealership is the best of both worlds. It is a service center and a store and has to be promoted differently to capitalize on the ope market.

I see very little difference in buying from a dealer or the big box stores. Neither knows much about the product beyond a mis-quoted excerpt from a brochure. I know that may inflame some people but the fact is that owners of the "dealerships" may know the products but I get the employee who doesn't know much but thinks he knows everything. Service departments in most dealers are horrible to say the least so there is no advantage there. Parts almost always have to be ordered. There are those few dealers that do everything right and if you are the 1 in a hundred I salute you. You don't live in my town I can tell you that.

Unfortunately rdaystrom is mostly right from what I`ve seen.

I think the average homeowner just assumes the dealer caters to commercial quality equipment ( read expensive) and they just want a cheap weed whacker etc. for light duty use. They probably never consider setting foot in your door.

I think the customer wrongfully assumes that the price will be higher at the dealer`s shop. More co-operative advertising with the manufacturers would help dispel that assumption. Then once you get the customer in your shop you have to humbly impress them with your skills and knowledge. helping the customer get the tool best for them rather than selling what is best for you goes a long way toward building trust. Another thing is, don`t ever make a customer feel ignorant, or worse yet, stupid. Another factor is that many of the big boxes offer discounted financing or a retail discount if you use their card, can you find a way to level the playing field?

In most BBS a customer can walk in, grab the box they want, and boogie. Alot of people, myself included, appreciate that expediency so be prepared to offer it when a customer doesn`t act like they want to linger and chat, or pick your brain.

A few more things come to mind.

convenient - This is still a basic 9 to 5 world. Most shops in my area are open 8 to 5. Moat people think, do I take time off from my job (loss income) to buy from a local dealer. Or go to a BBS when I have some free time.

Impluse buy - Some people will be buying light bulbs, see the shiney new lawn mower on an end cap and think. Mines not working right, think I'll get another one.

JMHO

lmy

I will continue to purchase my big ticket items for yard work from a dealer. The difference being the dealers have the higher line/ quality equipment I'm looking for, not just the base line models.

I have experienced an expert staff with the two dealers I frequent. They knew much more than the promo material. Prices were the same as the big box stores.

And I have received quality service, when needed, at a reasonable price.

So, twostroke guy, sounds like your on the right track. Best of luck.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT

I have a great dealer. Entire staff knows the products inside out. Service department is too notch. Pricing competitive with BBS.

BUT they are open from 7:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Mo - Fr and 8:00 a.m - 12:00pm on Sat. Not real convenient for a guy who works 8-5 and has other responsibilities on weekends as well. Just think how much more convenient it would be if they just stayed open until 7:00 pm in the evening twice a week.

I also think the availability of easy credit helps the BBS. Easy to get, interest rates bad but not horrible and quite frequently the customer is given up to an additonal 15% off if they use store credit. This is attractive to many customers. Not the way I purchase but many people do.

I choose to do business with the independent dealer and am fortunate to have a great one with nice product selection and an outstanding service department. But nothing convenient about those business hours.

The consumer has been brainwashed into thinking the BBS's are better value. The BBS's try and hit consumer price points with low end entry level products. (often working with manufacturers to create special SKU's). Once you get past entry level and look at higher end then there's often no advantage but that perception remains paramount in the consumer's mind.

Convienance is another factor. BBS's are everywhere and open almost all the time. Not everyone wants to take time off work to shop at the mom and pop shops.

BBS's are always promoting. Discount coupons, gift card rewards pgm, print ads, etc.

Today's consumer doesn't care about quality or service. (ex: airlines). They just want low price points and they know DOA merchandise can be easily returned.

Now at the other end is the internet. If I want high end I can often save a bundle buying online and do it at my convienance with a couple mouse clicks. Even Stihl's attempt to protect their dealers is full of loopholes. In the case of parts there's an abundance on Ebay and via aftermarket suppliers.

I think the independents OPE shops are being squeezed from both ends.

Thank you for all the responses so far!! I appreciate all the good and bad comments. Keep them coming!

The main advantage the big box stores have is consumers are used to going there. Joe average consumer may goto a big box 2-3 times a month for something. Every time they go in there they must walk past the tractors, lawn mowers, snow blowers, grills. When it comes time to buy one they automatically know where to get one. If they buy a lawn mower at a big box and 30 days later it doesn't start they can just return it. A dealer won't take it back, it will sit in their shop for a couple weeks getting "fixed".

Most people don't even know the small dealer exists. If I were to ask my neighbor where to get a John Deere he would probably say HD or Lowes rather than "jack's lawn mower".

Part of the problem is, besides the phone book, I never see a small shop do any kind of advertising. Yet a I get a flyer in the mail every week from HD and Lowes. All summer long those flyers have JD tractors on the cover.

My disclaimer, I have bought a Stihl blower and a Simplicity tractor from dealers. Love them both. Stihl dealer now out of business.
I have bought an Echo string trimmer, Ariens snow thrower, and a Vermont Castings grill from HD. Love them too.

Most all of my OPE and tools are not bought from big box stores. I do my research on the internet and on OPE forums such as this one. I buy the best commercial equipment I can afford even though it will be used for residential purposes. I am in a low income tax bracket but will bite the bullet and buy quality American products when possible. I created a "Made in USA" folder which contains the finest American products in all categories from Inova flashlights to Carolina boots to commercial snowblowers from Simplicity, Ariens etc. If I want a food mixer, I know it is going to be a Hobart, a gas can will be from Justrite and a chainsaw from Stihl.

What I do NOT like from mom and pop dealerships (or big box) is the employment of cheap illegal help. It is also politically not popular at the moment and politics such as this do affect my buying behavior. So, when I see anything of this sort in a business, I stay clear. I am prejudice against people who break the law.

I recently moved to a small town in PA and can see the pressure that these newly built box stores are having. As a few posters noted, the convenience of long business hours are a priority. In my small town, most small businesses close after 5PM and the city rolls up the sidewalks. They open for a couple of hours on Saturday and close on Sunday. Unfortunately life continues after 5 PM so the new big box stores are starting to take a big bite out of mom and pop's cash flow. These businesses are going to have to re-evaluate or risk going out of business.

Back where I moved from (in NJ) there was a mom and pop hardware store competing against Home Depot. Even though their prices were higher, I still shopped there because finding an item was much faster, I did not have to wait in a long line. I did not have to press 1 for English when I called their store. When I was very busy in the middle of a job the owner's son would drop off supplies where I was working so I would not have to leave the job site. If you bought OPE (such as Toro) from them, they gave you service priority.

In summary, the major appeal of big box for most people is a cheap product when you want cheap. Long business hours. Returning things immediately when there is no product satisfaction with NO arguments. Plenty of promotions. Price protection when there are sales.

I agree strongly with the poster who suggests networking with big box stores in order to provide service solutions where none exist.

Here's another consideration I just thought of. The consumer is conditioned to never buy anything at MSRP. Everyone wants a deal and nearly everything a consumer buys is discounted below MSRP. Just go to amazon.com to see all the examples.

However the OPE dealers seem to always price at MSRP. (ex Stihl's a perfect example). That leaves the consumer with the perception they're getting screwed at the dealers. Maybe offering instant rebates or sale prices would help even if the net price is what the dealer/manufacturer wants to get in the end.

Here's another example. When I go to an auto parts store the invoice shows "my price" and "retail price". I feel like I got a deal which I'm conditioned to expect. Now if I go to a Stihl dealer and pay MSRP with no discount I feel I'm getting screwed.

It's all about creating the perception to the consumer that they got a deal. It's up to the manufacturer and dealer to create this consumer perception while getting what they need to stay in business.

Hope this helps.

Heres a couple of more ideas.

Do you sell an affordable line of consumables like bars, chains, and sprockets for saws? I can afford oregon but not stihl. Its surprising to me how many dealers only sell OEM consumables.

One dealer here sells chain loops made from bulk oregon chain every September. They're about 40% cheaper than off the shelf chains. He gets a tremendous amount of business from loggers and tree trimmers, and they also get their professional grade saws from him.

How about pickup and delivery service for lawn tractors? Lots of people have lawn tractors but no way to get them in for repair. I know several elderly people who would rather pay a fair price for pickup and delivery rather than "bother" a relative or neighbor.

Some of the local shops around here have sidelines - like a sharpening service. If you're going to offer blade or chain sharpening, why stop there?

To me it all depends on how often you will use it and how important it is that it will work.Examples

John Deere LX277 because of the better quality you can not get at a Box Store when I need to Mow I need a mower that will work and will hold up and dealer support if needed.

Simplicity Pro series snow blower.I do not use it much but when I do I need it to work well.Again not available at a box store.I expect it to out last me and parts will always be available.Dealer support if needed.

Stihl FS-80 trimmer.I use it alot and was glad to pay 3 times for a trimmer that will last 6 times longer then a box store throw away.I could not afford another cheap trimmer every few years.This one is 5 years old and like new.Parts will be available when needed not discontined in a few years.Again dealer support if needed.

Craftsman 16'' chainsaw.I needed it when I bought it for a little over $100.00.I might never need it again for many years.If it fails I will spend another $100.00.Its cheap and no dealer support will be needed.

Troybilt pressure washer It was less then $300.00 at the Box store.I use it a few times a year.I just could not make my self spend $1000.00 for quality and dealer support.

Troybilt pole saw.Cheap box store but I use it to trim a few limbs a few times a year.I could not make my self spend the differance for a Stihl.

What I purchased from the Box Store to me is considered throw away.I do not expect dealer support.I would not be a horses rear end and expect a dealer to fix.

What I purchased from a dealer I expect to last for years and to recieve good dealer support if needed.

I can not under stand why anyone would buy a bottom feeder John Deere from a Box store when the dealer has it for the same price and offers service if needed.I realise he will service the box store sold units.But I would feel better asking for help from who sold it to me.

I was out at my friendly Toro, and many other name brand models, dealer the other day.

The sign that they do not work on.......and a list of BBS junk was listed, has been there for quite some time.

A new sign appeared about 6 months ago stating that they do not perform warranty work on anything that wasn't bought there.

Last week I nudged him for some info. "Have you gotten any flack from B&S about not working on their equipment" After a pregnant pause he said: "Not yet".

And so it goes with them. You buy it somewhere else, don't expect them to do any warranty work on it. And so far, they haven't.

I use to only buy my equipment from my local dealer, but not any more. Simply put, in most cases, the cost of parts and labor surpases the cost of an entire new unit! Foer example, I can now buy a new cheap chain saw every 2-3 years at less cost than repairing my 'brand name' saw every few years. Additionaly, rather then shop at the BBS, I now shop online. I usually can find what I'm looking for at a lower price then the BBS and there is NO sales tax and free delivery!

The primary appeal of the big box retailer, for me, is that I can buy things there at 7am, 9pm, on Saturday evening, or on Sunday. Otherwise I'd prefer to have nothing to do with them unless I have to. There are times when, whether for reasons of necessity or impulse, that I want to buy *something* now. Home Depot has gotten some business from me for that reason.

However, I prefer dealing with the local shop that knows what it is doing. I spend thousands per year at my saw shop, and a fair bit at the lawnmower/snowblower/generator shop, too. It took a number of years to find shops I was comfortable dealing with, though. Reasons follow:

1. I want a shop to actually have stuff in stock when I show up to buy. New units, parts, etc., should be ready to go.

1a. If you have to order something, let me place my "order" over the phone. I will NOT drive to you to tell you to order something that I have to drive back to pick up later, because that adds no value for me. It is, instead, a waste of my time.

2. Have hours beyond 5pm. Even 5:30 can help, but a night or two per week of 7pm would be appreciated.

3. Make sure your sales staff really knows their stuff and recognizes that some customers actually know more than they do. Quoting brochures is useless, and if you've never put any time in on the machines you're selling, well, maybe you should.

4. Service machines brought to you promptly. Nothing should sit in the shop for more than a week. My saw shop in particular is good about getting stuff back up and running within a day or two, since their commercial clients require it.

5. Stay abreast of what "enthusiasts" are doing with the equipment you are selling. I once purchased a lawnmower from a shop that also sells Stihl. The owner was nice enough to bring the mower out to my car, and he started checking out my Stihl 066 and turned critical as he launched into a critique of my improper chain filing technique, carrying on about how nobody knows how to sharpen chain anymore, how my cutters were all beat up, etc. In point of fact the chain was square-filed race chain with the back of the cutter removed, the top of the tie straps relieved for chip flow, etc. His ignorance was excusable, but his attitude was not. I don't shop there anymore.

My wife has a 6hp CubCadet that we got at Lowes. No big deal.
I use a 50" Gravely walk behind. I bought that at the local dealer (who is now out of bus.). Box stores don't sell stuff of that grade, so, if I replace it, I will have to go to another Gravely dealer.

I also have a Lastec gang mower (96"). That one gets serviced at the Deere place (they are the fact. auth. dealer).

As far as indoor shop tools (woodworking), I rarely buy from box stores, but get that stuff from woodworker.com or direct, from Grizzly.com

For me, Lowes is OK, but I almost never buy anything in the orange store. Actually, I went to the orange store yesterday to get a propane refill. What a hastle. Never again.

Thank you to all of you!! We do alot of the positives you all had mentioned and it's great to know that were on the right track. One thing that struck me though were store hours. Mon-Fri 8-5 and Sat 8-3 thats us. Something I will have to work on. Family time is important but I think I could pull off staying open until 6.

Staying open until 3pm on Saturday is a plus although opening at 8 is actually a little on the late side. Too often something needs to be picked up on the way to the job and if the shop opens at 8 someone has to wait around for you. Is there any way that you could stagger your workforce hours? It`s unlikely that you would need sales staff early in the morning but if you have a service guy who can handle small orders and what not you can cover both ends of the shop with one or two people until the shoppers come out.

My favorite shop closes at 5 sharp M-F and noon on Saturday. Start time is 7am and it`s unusual to have to order a part or come back for smaller repairs that can be done on the spot but if you didn`t buy it there you might wait awhile. ;)

There biggest draw is impeccable customer service.

Being a dealer sales rep, I have found this discussion very interesting. We try very hard to provide the best service we can, something the big boys do not do.We are open 7:30-5:30 during the week and 8-5 on Saturday during the peak season. We do not have staff available to be open longer hours or on Sunday without paying over time and burning people out.
We cannot always compete on price with the big boys and do not waste time trying. We buy 50 mowers of one brand from a central distributor and they buy truckloads factory direct to serve their stores across the country. Who gets the better discounts? They are also willing to work on lower margins and work volume although some are starting to back away from OPE. It is no longer profitable enough.
Long waits in the service department are an on going problem. There are few service dealers in our area and the population is growing. Some shops only take in equipment they sold to keep their customers happy. We try to maintain a two week lead time but last spring it was three. It is either that or look after our regular customers first and turn the rest away. Then we suffer during the off season.The customer chooses whether to wait or not. We have three kinds of service, cheap, fast and good. Pick any two. LOL You the consumer can help us serve you better by bringing your mower or tiller in for service in February/early March rather than the first nice Saturday in April.
We have considered dropping the service work from H-D, the only BBS account we have, but it is lucrative and brings new customers into the store. The volume does get overwhelming and our customers suffer.
It would be very nice to move into a car dealership sized building, hire a dozen more knowledgeable staff and be everything to everyone. With the tight labour market and high real estate prices we are experiencing, that is not an option.
Just my 2 cents

Thats why people should support the little guy.Find a retired person that does small engine work.Most of them have ANY hours,weekends and some make house calls.

That is great if he knows what he is doing. We get those guys in the store all the time. They spend a lot of time looking for parts that are NLA or want to rebuild a component or tool that is more economical to replace.