Good information.

The Sears business model regarding their tractors is unique in the market. Sears contracts with a third party, currently Husqvarna, to produce tractor products to Sears' specs. Those specs include, but are not limited to, NO MANUFACTURER's warranty, down featured engine assemblies, Husq. will not make parts and certain tech literature available to the independent repair and service industry channel, and numerous other cost cutting decisions to get the absolute lowest price per unit.

With this arrangement Sears will be the sole source of OEM parts, warranty service, and technical support.

Any L&G or Small Engine shop can work on Sears products. Their competency should be determined by the customer in advance, if they're smart. Some parts are being produced in the aftermarket channel for this independent repair channel but most parts are not.

Here's the rub... an independent shop may be reluctant to work on Sears tractors because the parts they need will have to be bought from Sears, at no markup, and take a while to arrive with a convoluted warranty procedure if the part fails.

That independent shop may opt, and usually does, to provide service and parts for their customers using products they sold and stock parts for and not bother with "off brands".

The question of the quality of a Sears tractor will spark a long and lengthy debate. The Sears business model of service, parts, and warranty works for some and drives others crazy. The customer has to make that choice and live with it.

When you're shopping for a L&G tractor remember that you're shopping for more than just the specifications on the literature.

In all fairness, John Deere doesn't sell parts to other than authorized John Deere dealers either but you have the advantage of more than one JD dealer in most areas.

JMO... YMMV

It is always a bit scary when replacement parts are a major source of revenue for a company (i.e. inkjet printers that cost less then the replacement ink cartridges). I have a Maytag washer that has begun to make some pretty bad noises, but I refuse to pay the $50 fee to find out what it is then pay parts and labor on top of that for a 12 year old washer that only cost $500 to begin with. Same goes with these mowers, have you looked at what a 3-4 year old box store mower is worth? They are pretty much disposable due to the costs of repair.

Injet printers are an example of an entirely different marketing strategy. Use to be known as "razor blade" marketing where they sell you the razor at a loss and make a bundle on the blades.

In contemporary terms it's more like "dope dealer" marketing where they sell you the syringe at a total loss and then you have to buy the dope.

Difference being, the blade that comes with the razor is a standard blade and shaves you for a week but the (short-filled) ink cartridge that comes with the $29 inkjet printer only prints 5 sheets and then back to the store for a $50 ink cartridge for your $29 printer.

The bitterness of poor quality (or service) lingers long after the sweetness of low price is gone.

Sears sucks and so do their mowers. Junk, Junk, Junk. Even the mechanic who works for them told me to buy elsewhere. He said my problems (see New Chraftsman mower wont start, part I, II and III) are not unique. He sees major problems on their new riders all the time and Sears could care less about customer satisfaction.............BG

oh my gosh...don't even get me started! I've had mine 3 yrs and have had nothing but problems with the mower and the service. I should call it NON-service, because it is is pathetic. Since I live 30 miles from town, I have to wait forever for service. Something major has gone wrong with it ever year I've had it. Around here (IL) the service techs come out of a company in Wisc. I have gone as far up the ladder as I can go with complaints and have gotten nowhere. Even their employees have told me good luck trying to find an independant service center who will work on a Craftsman!
Last year the engine blew and I was without it for 4 weeks at the beginning of the season when the grass was growing at a frantic rate. I have 4 acres to mow and, like you, I was doing 2 acres with a push mower just to try to keep on top of it!
The biggest laugh was when they called me afterwards to ask if I wanted to extend my warranty another 3 years for $500!!! Now it just broke again and I am telling anyone who will listen to NEVER buy anything at Sears.

i've had my sears gt5000 since june 2003 and aside from some minor problems....loose ignition wiring harness, flat tire........its been a real champ. mowing 3 acres once to twice a week from april through october each year. of course.....i do my own oil changes, replacing filters, greasing zerks, etc. knock on wood but like i said....this tractor has done just fine.

You have to realise that this board is a little like one of the the BMW motorcycle boards that I visit. They need to bash inorder to make themselves feel good about buying their over priced brand. Everything and I mean everything made by man screws up. I had a sears mower for over 20 years that ran just fine, it just tossed a rod after who knows how many thousnds of hours of work. Neighbors brand new 455 had a loose fuel line (thats what is thouht) that burned the thing to the ground.

Most machines do the job they are built for just fine, it is when you start trying to use them for jobs too large, or poor maint. is when problems arise.

The vast majority of the posts I see bashing Craftsman are from the owners of Craftsman, not from high-and-mighty owners of other brands (see above posts as an example). I have seen many more threads complaining about Sears service as of late, I don't know if it is a trend or if it just means more people with Craftsman are on the board now? It seems service is the big problem and not so much quality of the product.

I sure there are many who will agree that Sears worked very hard for many, many years to earn a solid reputation as a business that gave customers a dollar's worth for a dollar and stood behind what it sold.

Seems that since K-Mart took over Sears they're working hard to make customers forget how good they were.

As for BMW motorcycle owners... they do seem to have an inferiority complex and it's well earned.

A good friend, who lives near me, has had a Craftsman lawn tractor for some years. Last summer, it gave him some problems, so i repaired it for him, and he finished the summer with it. Ran fine! Last week, i stopped in to see him, as he was not feeling so good. I asked him if he got his tractor running this spring. His wife blurted out:"Oh, we had Sears come out and do the Spring thing!"
I asked her what all they did. She said:"Oh, they said the carburetor was bad, and the fuel pump was, too, so the guy installed new ones!" Said the repairs came to over $300! OOOFF!! But, it runs ok, she said! Well, i said it should, for that money, especially when it didn't really need anything, except some fresh gasoline, and maybe recharge the battery. The battery was new last year.
You have to know those folks! Dumber than a box of rocks, they are! When their cars need a battery, or maybe a tire or two, they buy 4 new ones, even if most of the tires have 3/4 of their tread left!
Oh well, thats what makes the world turn!
And then, there's their next door neighbor, with one of the older green Craftsman tractors, and he uses it for mowing and snow plowing!
And me? Oh, my really old Snapper riding mower just keeps going and going!

Uh oh... My neighbor across the street just bought a used Craftsman lawn tractor (green one) don't remember the model. He bought it for $50 and all he had to do was fix the starter and put in a new battery. If it lasts him this season, it will be worth it. He seems happy for now.

emucom said: "He bought it for $50 and all he had to do was fix the starter and put in a new battery. If it lasts him this season, it will be worth it. He seems happy for now."

That's for sure. Especially when you consider professional lawn mowing services charge $30 to $50 for ONE mowing, depending on lot size of course. More for bagging and trimming.

dl3251,
If you are in N. Il, S Wi, you have many Deere dealers around, most if not all with RTM service vans will take care of the Craftsman for you, buy thier service contract and they will stock common parts for that Craftsman also (blades, bearings & belts). Just my findings - I own both a 1996 Deere(GT275) and 2002 Craftsman (DLT2000).
I personally don't have that much trouble with either tractor. I pay deere to service(twice/year) the GT275 and I service the DLT2000. (these mowers are located on 2 properies approx. 12 miles apart).
Next week I may get a 3rd property (it has a 24 x 30 bldg. a nice place to store my 2040 deere) its adjacent to one of my present properties.
My retirement plans seem to be working well - retirement! I seem to be working all the time - but I like most of it.
Oh the cost of deere service, I paid $376.18 for some minor repairs and early bird spring service on the GT275. I paid approx $30 for filters(oil, air & fuel) and spent about 2 hrs on servicing the DLT2000.
This morning gotta get a hair cut (just a trim) polish the top, and at 10:30am meet with some folks on a contract I have, hope to continue that one.
Ain't life grand.

You see the digs just had to come.

Most of the problems I have seen with anything have not been due to a manufacture defect, but due to the machine not taken care of. JD design was not to blame for burned up tractor, but the putz at the factory not putting on a clamp, and perhaps the owner not checking his equipment. I fully think if you take care of a machine and use it in the way it was intended you will not have problems.

But some people do not seem to grasp you pay for a name, be it John Deere or BMW. Is a Deere a better tractor then a Sears? is a BMW a better motorcycle then a Honda? The answer is no. If you look you will find people that have had problems with all of them, but to make sweeping statements that all are junk or all are snobs is just wrong all the way around.

justalurker said:

----SNIP----
"The Sears business model regarding their tractors is unique in the market. Sears contracts with a third party, currently Husqvarna, to produce tractor products to Sears' specs. Those specs include, but are not limited to, NO MANUFACTURER's warranty, down featured engine assemblies, Husq. will not make parts and certain tech literature available to the independent repair and service industry channel, and numerous other cost cutting decisions to get the absolute lowest price per unit.

With this arrangement Sears will be the sole source of OEM parts, warranty service, and technical support.

Any L&G or Small Engine shop can work on Sears products. Their competency should be determined by the customer in advance, if they're smart. Some parts are being produced in the aftermarket channel for this independent repair channel but most parts are not.

Here's the rub... an independent shop may be reluctant to work on Sears tractors because the parts they need will have to be bought from Sears, at no markup, and take a while to arrive with a convoluted warranty procedure if the part fails."

----SNIP----

This is just flat wrong (at least from the parts perspective). I have several pieces of Sears OPE, purchased over the last 7-10 years or so. In every case, I can search for the part number at any number of internet sites (jacks, outdoor distributors) and find my part from the listings the OEM. Every. Single. Time.

You are correct in that Sears does custom spec major assemblies from the manufacturers (just like every other major company). For example, the difference between the Kohler Courage on my YS-4500 and any other 20-hp Kohler Courage is that Sears deleted the Air Cleaner pre-filter. When I did my first service at 50 hours, I bought the Kohler Maintenance Kit and popped the pre-filter into the air cleaner into the housing. All other service, maintenance and adjustments are exactly identical as any other Courage.

Frankly, any competent small engine mechanic should be happy to work on a Craftsman at $50/hr (or whatever going rate a mechanic gets).

oh...and in case any of you were wondering......my craftsman gt5000 isn't used just to mow the grass.......it also spreads fertilizer, pulls a plug aerator and just recently hauled over 32 tons of washed gravel (one wagon load at a time) around a newly constructed pool area.

I'm not going to argue in favor of Sears' business model. Yes, service is a hassle, but the prices can't be beat. I mowed for four years with a Poulan Pro I bought at Sears. Thing was meant for suburbia and I mowed pasture and hills. My total cost of ownership after I sold due to divorce was well under $250 a year. That included any repairs (minor) made. As noted above, that's a lot cheaper than hiring it out at the very least.

As for Sears' service, the best way around it is to avoid it. I am lucky to have a shop nearby that carries just about every single lawn mower part ever manufactured. I have never failed to find anything I or a friend needed there.

I hear a lot of back and forth on the subject of manufacture, but truth be told most all tractors are similar for price range and made in a small handful of factories. My next door neighbor bought a new cub cadet last year and it breaks EVERY time he mows. The list is long, but suffice to say that the hood fell off on second mowing and the blades have come of MULTIPLE times causing him to replace several spindles. Last week a piece of the deck came loose near the discharge and hammered the blade to pieces.

Neighbor across the street has mowed with a murray since I've lived here and put it on the curb with a for sale sign couple weeks back. He too was seen proudly riding a new cub. He was also seen broken down and under the hood THREE times on the first day. Murray went off sale and cub was out of action till just recently.

I'm not picking on cub. I could go on about my recent piece of crap JD and the similar JD issues my friend had before buying a new craftsman like mine. Every brand is represented on this forum. Point is, you get a range of tractor for the price you pay and hope that you land on the high end of it.

$50 for a service call and a couple hundo to fix is tough, but I don't know of any friends getting their JDs serviced for any less.

I got my craftsman pro with 25hp kohler and 46" deck for $1800 (retail $2500). Had to buy wheel weights due to terrain for $100, but had a free $169 cart thrown in on original purchase. If the thing lasts me five years with minimal maintenance. I'll sleep soundly on the deal. If I could have hammered the Lowes kid into a similar deal on an equivelant JD or Husq, I may have bought one of them.

That's $270 a year assuming I sell it for $400. Can't beat that. Yes, I would love to buy a $6000 tractor with all the bells and whistles, but can you tell me with any certainty that the thing is gonna last 25 years without any additional investment? That's what it would take to match up with the deal I have now. Both tractors can mow my lawn. I'll take the $250 deal every time.

My advice, if you own a set of wrenches and screwdrivers, buy what you can afford that is advertised to cover your needs. Yes, like any machine, you MAY come across something or two that you can't fix yourself. If you can't do any basic maintenance at all, do what it takes to find a reputable dealer and save, scrape or steal enough money to buy a tractor off them.

PS. The shop I'm refering to is Glenn's Surplus in Shelby, Ohio. They have a web site, but it is new and only lists a few items. Give them a call if you get in a jam for parts on any machine. 419.347.1212 (or email) mailto:Sales@GlensSurplus.com

BTW - Home Depot isn't much better. Buddy got a JD two years ago and had all kinds of problems. Home Depot kept trying to schedule service with local JD shop. Each break down was a nightmare. Third or fourth time around they just gave him a new JD and it has been fine.

Well said ikenlob. BTW, we have a contingent of 3 or 4 guys that travel to Shelby once each year to do flaw inspection of RR freight car wheels in a RR car maintenance shop there. I might have to give those guys a list of parts I'd like to have on hand for my old MTD (Mont. Wards) tractor that keeps on going.

Larso1, you're in luck as Glenn's is in an old factory right on the tracks. Prices have always been best I could find. For example, neighbor got his cub spindles for less than 1/2 retail and $20 less than he found on ebay. There is also a big outdoor store around the corner to check out.

I'm actually about an hour and half south now, but my neighbor was glad we made the trip and now his wife wants to go to check out homewares and other junk Glenn's has on hand. Enjoy your summer!

Craftsman Tractors have been cutting my grass for 13 years virtually trouble free. The first one cut an acre for 9 years, I put on a belt, a few sets of blades and a battery. I bought it for $900, and I sold it for $500. Then I bought a new one for $900, and sold it with the house. I've been cutting 2 acres with a 17hp Craftsman that I got used. I've only put gas and blades on it. It's due for an oil change. I couldn't think of a better mower. I'd gladly pay $50 plus parts to get it working again, and I'm sure a Deere couldn't work for me for less. Could a Deere cut grass better? Maybe, but it's cut every week with the Craftsman. Does the grass know?

Been a bit busy with the yard to respond before now. It's now due for another trimming with the Toro self-propelled I ended up with (a 2hr plus task last time that is bound to take a bit longer this time since I skipped one side yard and the front yard the first time round). As for the Craftsman...I've drained the fuel on it (the fuel had stabilizer in it but better safe than sorry) and will be taking the battery out to place it on a trickle charger until I can get it over to the one place that will service it since it doesn't look like they will be picking it up for me after all.

Perhaps I was just plain unlucky but the problem I've been having was NOT due to lack of maintenance on my part. I've been very careful to do the recommended maintenance and have had no problems with the engine, etc. A defective safety switch is not a maintenance issue. I just wish the problem hadn't been intermittent for so long or I would have considered coughing up the $50 service charge when it was still under warranty. I was concerned that the problem wouldn't show up and I'd be out the $50 with nothing to show for it (okay and I -was- irked it cost that much when the lawnmower was still under warranty). With just one mower to base this problem on I can't say whether it's a common one or not...just that other people I've talked to seem to have had similar headaches with service and it's something well worth considering when purchasing a new lawnmower. I've also found standard air filters, etc. to be far more expensive than other brands so that's another thing to consider as well. Fortunately the most expensive part, the air filter which runs $25 at Sears, appears to be a standard Briggs and Stratton part that can be obtained elsewhere for less than half that (quite the discount, eh?).

Now...to get back to that lawn. I don't suppose anyone has some sheep I can borrow for a bit...say the rest of the summer? Actually now that I think about it...anyone know if replacing a safety switch on one of these things is a DIY project? So far I've heard...it depends... From the way it's acting I've been told it may be the clutch safety. Perhaps I can work on it after fixing the trailer lights...or before since I then wouldn't need it so desperately...

Just as an additional point...sometimes the inconvenience of having something like this out of service for so long can more than make up for a couple hundred dollar price difference. Now if one's talking about several hundred dollars...I'd go for the sheep myself...;-)

If your problem is pretty likely to be one of a couple of safety switches, I would expect that you could bypass one at a time to see which it was, or just bypass the easiest first and give it a try. That would let you keep mowing until the repair could be done conveniently (ie: with new part in hand, and little time lost from cutting). I don't know anything about Craftsman wiring specifics, but I bet someone here can tell exactly which wires to connect or disconnect to do a temporary by-pass. Once you see where the bad switch is, you can very likely see how to swap it yourself also.

For some of us that can fix'em and identify unusual noises before they become big problems any brand will last us for ever. I will amit the higher priced models usually have better made steering, frames and ect..., But majority of them use the same engines.

For thoses that can't find the dipstick or figure out the battery is dead, then you going to pay. It's not a dealers fault or manufacture because you can't take care of your equipment. But, don't expect them to do it for nothing with todays prices.

Your experience sounds very much like the one we are just embarking upon with Sears. The similarities are scary! And we have been loyal Sears customers for 40 years, all types of items. We have just bought a new Craftsman lawn tractor 26 HP, 54" - runs great, but leaves 2 strips of grass uncut. We put on new blades, made no difference, then tried to adjust the blades and deck, still doing it. Since it's under warranty, we called service. They immediately assumed we had put the blades on wrong or something and said if they sent service out and there was nothing wrong, it would cost us $75 for the call, in a very intimidating tone. No customer service there - they just assume it's us. Upon delivery, they should have made sure they had it set up properly. I've tried everything. Any suggestions???

I don't know.......you say you just put on new blades, and then tried to adjust the deck???? on your own time and dime?? If your answer to that is "yes", then you have possibly contaminated the chances of getting Sears to "admit responsibility" for the uncut strip. My opinion, Sears should have been addressing the uncut strip, not you. Then, if Sears was unable to correct the "obviously" unacceptable performance of their product, you could have made overtures toward getting your money refunded, or replacement for a different tractor that "would cut well".
As with most warranty policies for machinery/vehicles..... if you make any changes to the OEM configuration, that are not "explicitly permitted", you risk voiding the warranty for the entire machine. State laws may prevent the OEM from voiding the warranty "arbitrarily", but that still requires you to get the state involved (and that means: you will do most of the "leg work" for the state, if your case is even considered). If you feel you have a "lemon" and that you have done nothing wrong, you might check the websites of TV stations in your area to see if they have a "consumer help line" or feature they televise as part of their newscast. Beware, if you don't have all your ducks lined up in tight rows, Sears certainly will.

Mine is 8 years old now and its been nothing but problems since new. Original problem was a weak battery that the Sears techs could not isolate. One moron even installed a carb kit for that issue. I finally put a new battery in it from Walmart and it ran ok until last week. Safety switch (somewhere) on it looks like the culprit. If I could afford it, I'd go by a JD! As of 2002, I stopped buying anything with Craftsman on it that had moving parts!

***"Mine is 8 years old now and its been nothing but problems since new."***
"Mine" what?? Is this a rant or a plea for help??
***"I finally put a new battery in it from Walmart and it ran ok until last week."***
And just WHEN did you put that battery in? And what might be the nature of your problem now and what are the symptoms??
***"Safety switch (somewhere) on it looks like the culprit."***
So, who are you calling a moron?

Think about how much people make per hour today, $10-$20 per hour. Imagine now that a tech spends an hour to get to you and an hour to go back to his home base. He also spends an hour working on your machine. You have to reward him for the knowledge he brings to the table , like they reward you at your job. Then on top of all that , Sears has to turn a profit, i.e. make a certain percent over their expenses to be able to pay a dividend to their stockholders. Do you still think $50-$80 is too much for all that. Sounds like a steal to me.