Coastal northwest is USDA 8 so it's hardly the frigid Northland. It IS dull (cloudy) much of the time, and summers have long been dry. Typical July precipitation in "rainy" Seattle is less than one inch.

Western Oregon has a huge horticultural industry, maybe the same conditions there that have allowed this to develop would also suit you.

If I was chosing somewhere, I'd go for the Klamath or Siskiyou Mts, far north of California or southwesternmost Oregon. Highest conifer species diversity in the USA.

Resin

"I Could probably count the number of times we froze this winter on my hands."

For me, I can't count the number of times I've froze my hands this winter. ;)

I don't know your financial situation, but owning land is, for most people, going to be a huge factor in deciding where to live. I suspect 20 acres of land in northern CA or southern OR is going to cost mega $$, but that's just a guess. I've got just under 60 acres of land that borders roughly 3000 acres of county owned forest land. The land is relatively inexpensive, but I have to put up with rediculously long winters. Sort of the inverse of what you currently have.

I personally prefer the verdant east to the west, although I admit it is beautiful. I lived in AZ for three years, and Sedona/Oak Creek Canyon is about as close to heaven as I've been. One region I've looked at is the Shenandoah Valley of VA, NE TN, and western NC. They still experience four distinct seasons, but none hang around like an obnoxious relative spending time at your house.

Bob

I think you're asking for the impossible. If an area of the country has perfect weather, the price of land will be high, and there will already be a lot of people there. But if you find it, let me know - I want to move there, too, and help overcrowd it! :)
Sherry

My question is where would be a good place to do it? The pacific northwest has a great climate for growing trees and shurbs and plenty of outdoor interests to pursue. But, I know from a friend parts are becoming very expensive the population is growing fast and the climate is, i think, becoming dryer. It also may be too far north for me. I know some people actually get clinically depressed from lack of sunshine.

What american regions would be a compromise between the two? somewhere where the winters aren't severe, but where you actually have a real winter.

It is my experience that places that have "real" winters also have periods, some more than others, were there is a definite lack of sunshine. As you mentioned, there are people that have issues with it - it is called Seasonal affective disorder. There are ways to deal with it if that is a concern. Although through my personal experience, gardeners have less problems with this than most. They spend the worst part of winter browsing plant/seed catalogs, planning their gardens, and looking for signs of the impending spring. They are far too hopeful and excited to succumb to the "winter blues."

I personally think that all the various locations in the US have their own advantages/disadvantages with regards to growing things and outdoor pursuits. But if I was to think of a mild winter location I'd want to move to, I'm with the previous poster in looking at the south-eastern US.

FataMorgana

If I had to do it all over again, I'd choose somewhere in the Willamette River valley south of Portland, Oregon. It has a nice mild climate with dry summers. It is also close to the Pacific Ocean but protected by the low coastal range. The Cascade mountains are a short distance to the east with the drier central and eastern part of Oregon just on the other side of the mountains. Less than a two hr. drive to the ocean or semi-desert and only an hour from the mountain passes. The diversity of plant life that can be grown there is amazing. No hurricanes or tornados and no high humidity, hot summers. Winter snowfall is light. The area around the city of Eugene would be a good starting place.

...and then of course there's climate change. Knoxville, TN was a solid 6b back 15 or 20 years ago when the official USDA Hardiness Zone map was produced. But in the last decade we've been in the low 8a range! Last year we had the warmer temperatures and extreme drought all summer long. If last year's weather occurs again this year, we aren't going to have many large trees left!

"I think the grass is always greener on the other side of the [country]." There are plants that I would like to grow, but can't, that you could grow easily where you are now.

Here is Northwest Arkansas, the climate is rather moderate by most standards. The highest daily high temperature is 90-91 degrees, in late July/early August, and the coldest average daily high temperature is 42-43 degrees in mid-late Jan. Some snow pretty much every year, but may not be more than 2-3 inches, but can and do get occasional snowfalls of 12"+ in a single storm (though it has been a while). Rainfall is around 45-46 inches dispersed throughout the year. Lastly there is usually good (sometimes great) fall color). There are ever native Sugar Maple in the area if you know where to go, even though most range map show them to be in southern Missouri, and not north Arkansas. Of course there are the extremes beyond the averages for all of these. In the years I have lived here I have seen a high temp of about 104-105, and a low of around -12 to -15. Hardiness zone is 6b, but has been more 7a for about the last 4-5 years. Oh, and there are hills as well (Fayetteville, Ar is at about 1300 feet elevation). Lastly population is about 350,000-400,000 over a two county area, but very dispersed so that it does not feel like there is much population. Can you tell that I LIKE it here? :-) People come, but never seem to leave. :-)

I love living in the Great Lakes region. If I had to choose another location, it'd be somewhere like Maine or New Hampshire....or somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. I'd not want to live where it doesn't snow. Lot's of folks are grousing about the long, snowy winter we've been having, but I just love it!

Now, what was the question? ;^)

+oM

It's not as good for horticulture, but I much prefer the sunshine in CO--especially in the winter--to the gloom of the East and PNW. We have 67% of possible sunshine here in Dec/Jan/Feb compared to an average of 28% in Portland and Seattle during those months, and our winter days are around 40 minutes longer.

The aridity here could mean a big problem on country acreage, unless one had water rights.

There is a small area of the state, around Canon City, that seems to be a sort of "banana belt." Great scenery, and it's far enough from the cities that land may not be sky-high yet. It's about two hours drive from Denver. One weird thing there is that the major local "industry" is prisons (Federal and State). That got started way back when Canon City lost out to Boulder as the site of the state's university, and was awarded the penitentiary instead.

For brief profiles covering the whole country...

Here is a link that might be useful: Sunset's Garden Climate Zones

arktrees, come on now, People come, but never seem to leave.. That's just because of all the alien abductions! LOL

Seriously, NE Arkansas is really nice and has lots of great scenery, but I get the distinct feeling I'm unwanted or at least barely tolerated by the locals once you get away from the Bentonville-Fayetteville area. I've had more than a few encounters where I thought things were gonna end up with a banjo and comments about my "purty mouth". he he :-)

No offense, but the locals in general are just very suspicious of outsiders in the Ozarks away from the tourist/populated areas. I do agree it's usually several degree cooler there in the summers than here in nearby Eastern KS and the winters are usually just enough more mild than here to make them more enjoyable(at least to a warm weather person like me). There's also some real floral/taxanomic gems in the hills, especially along the Buffalo River drainage and the land prices are cheap. I love visiting NE Arkansas and if people get to know you they're friendly, but it takes a while.

RE: The aridity here could mean a big problem on country acreage, unless one had water rights.

I hadnt really thought about that. I think the rule here is the old law of capture which means you can just dig a well on your land and use all the water you want. But im no expert, could be wrong. I take it Colorado law is different?

As for Arkansas I actually thought about that. I dont mind suspicious people. Suspect me all you want, just leave me alone. Am I correct that the ozarks are more hill country than mountains?

Virginia is a great state for growing things and although the Shenandoah Valley is absolutely drop dead beautiful, the land is prohibitively expensive. (All the DC bigwigs have bought it up!) If you look in this area of the country, consider southwest VA, closer to Roanoke. The climate is just about what you're looking for, the land is not as expensive, and the people are friendly. You would be close to a great hort university, VA Tech in Blacksburg, and could choose from rolling foot hills to the beauty of the mountains. Just keep in mind that the eastern side of the mountain chain is milder and gets less snow, the western side can be very snowy and cold.

I've lived in VA all my life and love it here and I could go on and on but I'll quit now! LOL

averbisadverbera, Northwest Arkansas is where I would pick, the towns of Bentonville,Rogers,and Eureka Springs are all very beautiful, with Eureka Springs being built right on the mountain side. They consider Eureka Springs the little switzerland of America, and it really does remind you of that. I have a vacation home up there, as I live in Louisiana and can relate to wanting to get away from the heat. It is always at least 10 degrees cooler there and the humidity is not nearly as bad, nights are very cool. Trees that I'm abale to grow at my home are sugar maple, white birch, spruce, etc.. things I would never be able to grow back home. Winters can be cold with lows below zero but usually very short lived, snowfall usually occurs about 5 times a year, sometimes more. Fall color is great! As far as being hilly yes, but the norhtern ozarks are considered mountains just not as high as the rockys, but just as beautiful.

The area I'm writing about would be generally from Bentonville, to Siloam Springs, to Fayetteville, over to Eureka Springs, but not so far east as Harrison (though I would no pass Harrison by either, and locations near there. Also Fayetteville has the advantage of being at slightly higher elevations, so serious ice storms are rare, as the very shallow cold air masses that accompany ice storms have a very difficult time reaching the altitude of Fayetteville, and temps usually stay just at or just above freezing, while surrounding areas get hammered with ice accumulations.

As for the comment about people never seeming to leave, 1000+ per month MOVE to Benton/Washington counties. Right now home prices/sales are very depressed due to a great subdivision building frenzy of the last several years. The area has been consistently rated (often in the top five) as one of the places to live for the last 20 years.

As for what you can grow, the climate is a very good middle ground. Some of your local favorites from Texas like Chinese Pistache will do just fine, but then you can add northern plants like Sugar Maples and Blue Spruce into the mix, and all will be very happy.

Lastly, no earthquakes, but drought, severe storms, heavy rain/flooding, and occasional tornado's are the natural hazards. Though our droughts are nothing like in central Texas. I was in DFW last Oct, and was amazed at just how much drier the climate was than when I was back home 6-7 hours later in Arkansas.

I've looked at some mountain property in Tennessee close to Chattanooga, and we nearly bought it year before last. Now I'm glad we didn't - that area is ground zero in the drought area, so who knows what types of problems we would have been dealing with. I can remember a severe drought in the same general part of the southeast (mainly north Alabama) in the mid-70's, I think it was, with people running out of water, so when a drought occurs up there it really seems to be a big one. I'm probably going to be looking at some land in the southwest part of Mississippi close to the river this spring - if we have another hurricane here, I want to have a place to escape to and build on. That's my favorite part of the state, and you can live on the same longitude there, and be much better protected from hurricanes, because of all the Louisiana land south of there. If we have even a short dry spell, it drives me crazy, so I think I'll stay out of the worst drought areas, even if I have to put up with heat and humidity.
Sherry

I'm far from an expert on water rights, and it's a very complicated area. Rights to surface water out here (and in UT, NM, etc.) are usually owned separately from the land. In times of water shortage, the "junior users" have their allocations progressively cut off. I'm less sure about ground water withdrawals; it may depend partly on the depth of the aquifer involved. A few years ago during drought, many shallow wells (used for agriculture) in the South Platte drainage were shut down by the State because that water otherwise went to maintain the river flow and the senior users had prior claims on it. When flows recovered after better snow years, farmers were allowed to again access those shallow wells.

arktrees,

I was just teasing of course. I've got friends in Bentonville(growing like mad!, but still with small town feel) and Fayetteville and Eureka Springs is a long time resort town well known about here in Eastern KS. It's a great place to visit IMO. There are decent numbers of people retiring to NE Arkansas and less populated adjacent SW Missouri from where I live. Mostly because of the lower summer time temperatures, cheap land prices, mountainous(and hilly) forested scenery, rural less congested living, but still being reasonably close to lots of entertainment (Branson, MO, lake of the Ozarks, Lake Table Rock Lake, lots of fishing resorts, Eureka Springs, etc. etc.) and big cities(Kansas City, Tulsa, Saint Louis, Little Rock, etc.). I've always been struck by how many Northern and Southern plants you can grow in NE Arkansas. The only other place I can think of where you can grow such diverse plants in the USA is on the West Coast, but I'm sure parts of Appalachia are similar.

I didn't want to mention Harrison, but since you did I'll just say my "Deliverance" encounters in Arkansas were all within 1 hour of Harrison and not in the areas you talked about.

In 1983 I researched the best place to live in America and ended up in Portland, Oregon. At the time it was wonderful but now it is too hot and dry. It does rain a lot in November and December and January but it's stopped raining enough all the rest of the time. Our rainfall average is running a deficit 2 years now.

The summers are dry and far too hot. I should have moved to the Washington / Canada border area. At least they get more cloud cover which protects plants from the burning relentless sun of summer.

And there's water up there, enough for gardening and kayaking. The winters are not as cold as they used to be and are fine.

Another thing to consider is the storms -- wind has become more of a dangerous factor up here. Living near the ocean is now a wind hazard, so going a ways inland is safer.

Choose a waterfront property a little out in the sticks along a water-rights river / creek in upper NW Washington and you'll be happy with the plant-growing opportunities and the magnificent natural beauty if in your lifetime the area is not beset by tree-hating developers.

Put Solatubes in your roof/ceilings for energy-efficient beautiful natural light. Even in the winter here you can putter about the yard. January does tend to be nasty though; a fireplace would be good.

I've spent half my life in coastal CT, and the other half in FL. For my next move, we've bought land in upstate SC, very close to the mountains. It is a mild 4 season climate, but probably too hot in the summer for many. Our reasoning was proximity to family (all east coast) and affordable acreage near a city for work. I prefer the NC mountains, but I need to make a living, and land prices there have soared in recent years. We're done with the heat, crowds, and spiraling cost of living in FL. It's actually tricky gardening, too- too hot in the summer, and very poor soil (pure sand).

The US/Canada border area is blasted by strong winds coming out of the interior and down the Fraser River in winter. It seems it's not unusual for people living there to think they can't overwinter anything. One of the characteristic native trees there is paper birch, an indicator of cool northern climate conditions. (Driving north on interstate 5 noticeable groves of these first appear near Marysville, this is about where a lingering nip in the air also often seems to begin).

The Fraser Outflow corridor is the one area where Sunset has their Zone 4 come right down to the water.

Here is a link that might be useful: Climate Zone Map: Washington, Oregon, British Columbia

Bboy, you are a source of amazing useful info. Thank you!

I'm putting in for Southwest Virginia as well. Although I am actually talking about true Southwest Virginia...well southwest of Roanoke....more like Marion and Abingdon. This area is in zone 6 in the Appalachian Mountains. And while I will admit the past 5 years or so have been lacking a good winter we normally had excellent winters with 2-3 good snowfalls(1-2 feet) a year that lasted about a week each before they melted off. And again while the last 5 years or so have been excessively hot and dry(darn near 90 for most of July and August), our summers normally had temperatures that topped out around 85. So if you are hopeful, like me, I see this area as having the perfect median of temperature with excellent. We are able to grow both southern species and northern species with a little bit of tweaking.

If you think you may start a nursery, I vote for Virginia (west of Charlottesville) including the Shenandoah Valley, North Carolina (west of Charlotte), the Louisville KY area, parts of Tennessee, and western WV.

All have four seasons, hills or mountains, and do not tend to have weather extremes (there are always exceptions).

Virginia has a mild and temperate climate. The sun shines most of the time. It's rare to have more than two days of gray cloudy skies in a row. So if you are sensitive to sunlight, you need to factor that into the equation.

I have a list of native plant nurseries - it seemed that a disproportionate number were in TN, WV, and KY. Before making a decision, you may want to do your own research about where more nurseries are located.

If your plan is to start a specialty nursery, where you'd carry a wide variety of rare and choice woody plants, then I'd like to suggest west central WI (i.e. Eau Claire). In fact, the the Town of Seymour just east of EC would be ideal. :>)

Pam, west of the Blue Ridge in the mid-atlantic states it's a different story. :) We're often locked in overcast skies (stratocumulus), NW winds & spitting snow for days after the passage of a low-pressure system -- more like the Great Lakes areas.

glad so many people responded. Im probably not the only plant nerd thats that thought about a big piece of property in a nice climate to grow tons and tons of plants. My dream is still a few years off so I have plenty of time to think.

It doesnt need to be ideal or perfect there is no such thing, but someplace where you see some snow every once in a while would be nice. I havent seen an accumulation of snow in over a decade. But as much as I would like to, being locked inside for months would drive a south Texan crazy. Id settle for a slightly more consistent cooler winter if I could get rid of the 105 degree days with humidity, and the stretches of several days in row all over 100 I would. In addition to being unbearable for someone 6'2 240 lbs, plants from cool temperate climates hate it. And tropical stuff still isnt completey hardy.

beng: You get the rain! I've spent a terrible amount of time watching the Weather Channel - watching the needed rain travel up from the deep south - from GA to SC to NC (hope in my heart) - then watch those storms veer west, and travel up the western side of the mountains. Rats!

If we are lucky, we get half an inch.

Tonight, we are getting rain and winds gusting in the 40s.

But, as you say, we get sunshine and I do love the sun. A sunny day makes the hardest work enjoyable.

Hope those of you in the drought areas got rain. I've been keeping watch as to how much rain is falling there. WE got flooding rain in much of NW Arkansas, 3.75 inches at my house, and then a couple inches of snow. The heavy snow that we were supposed to get went SE about 120 miles. Too bad, I would have liked to have gotten the 11 inches of snow they got there. Instead a little snow, and allot of ice on the roads. NOT fun! :-)

Anyway, hope you got rain.

Pam, Tidewater VA gets 4-8" more annual rain than me (just east of the Alleghany plateau) on average, but the drought is still hanging on around your area.

Rather severe flooding here this morning after 2.5"+ rain overnight & the ground was already saturated. My border-stream is on a rampage & standing water in the lowest areas & even part of my basement.

beng - You're right about the average annual rainfall. As you say, we've been in a drought for a couple of years - we forget about the extremely wet weather a short time ago, when the ground was so saturated that trees fell in minor storms.

The "rather severe" flooding you had yesterday sounds more than "rather severe" if you had water in your basement! The idea of flash floods make this Tidewater rat uneasy.

Wanting to be outdoors in all 4 seasons doesn't mean you need to live where it stays warm all year. People in New England just learn how to dress for the weather. We're in zone 7, the southern edge of NE, so we don't get the intense cold that other regions do. I've been working in my garden every weekend through the winter.

There are 2 things that would limit my choices if I were looking for a new place. First, tornadoes. I can deal with hurricanes, since you have a nice long warning before they strike; the way tornadoes swoop down on a town just makes me wonder why anyone would be willing to live there. Second, hot/humid summers. I'd rather bundle up and put up with winter cold than have to deal with heat and humidity in summer - you can't do anything but stay indoors, and what fun is that?

Unless you're planning to set up a strictly mail order business, you'll need to select an area where there's a market for interesting plants. That usually means being near a city.

The difference between a tornado and a hurricane is not just the warning time you get, but the area that's affected. A hurricane can devastate a large part of a state, maybe affecting as much as 50% or more of a state, while a tornado only affects a tiny minutia of an area, much less a state, affecting a tiny fraction of one 1/1000 of 1% of a state. Even the monster tornado that hit Oklahoma City a few years ago only affected a tiny portion of that city, maybe 1% of the city's total land area. So, the tornado threat is really much less than the hurricane threat year in and year out, even here in the heart of tornado ally in Kansas.

As someone who's suffered from frost bite before, I'm just the opposite. If you're out in the cold with a stiff North wind, you can't do much other than try to take shelter or freeze to death!, whilst if you're out in the hot humidity, you can always sit in the shade and drink some water. To each their own, right? hehe :-)

I just thought of another near perfect climate and thats in the mountains of Costa Rica. They get snow on a more or less regular basis(a couple times a year often), but it's never very cold for very long(someone I know living their has experienced the single digits in F on a few occasions), they get 4 distinct seasons, although mostly 2(summer and winter), and summers are a joy with it being warm and never hot and plenty of rainfall. Then again this isn't in the USA or cultural North America, but it is in geographic North America!

You don't need to go as far as you might think, from central Texas to get four seasons.

C'mon up to the High Plains. Amarillo usually gets a lot of snow, compared to central Texas. But, it is almost always gone in a few days.

Our summers are a true delight compared to down state Texas. High, dry, low humidity. If you get in the shade here, you are comfortable here almost any day in the summer. Also, more sunshine, for a nursery, than just about anywhere in the country.

We have an underground aquifer, so there is no real lack of water, though we try to conserve in dry years when the lakes can't supply as much.

Of course, if you want to be surrounded by a lot of trees, this isn't the place for you.

Your comments about population and crowding shouldn't be a problem here in the foreseeable future.

Its like buying a new car nowdays. Its just a matter of what you really want the most. The options are out there, which ones you prioritize are up to you.

Amarillo averages 15 inches of snow a year and its record set in 2000 was 55 inches.

I was in Amarillo I think it was in January of 2002 where they had 2' of snow on the ground and I couldn't see above the drifts and snow piles plowed along the roads and parking lots. I had trouble finding my way out of a couple of parking lots, because it was like a white snow maze. It was quite the site! So, you all can have some significant snows from time to time.

I'd also add that Amarillo is within relatively easy driving of some very cool nurseries(Sunshine Nursery in nearby Clinton, OK; High Country Gardens in Albuquerque and Santa Fe, NM; Trees That Please in Los Lunas, NM; Wichita Valley Nursery in Wichita Falls, TX to name a few). Even in the winter when they do get cold it usually doesn't feel as cold because of the dry atmosphere and strong sunlight (both because of the higher elevation, usual lack of clouds, and more Southerly latitude). Also, the spectacular scenery that's not too far off in places like Palo Duro(also full of botanical gems!), the Wichita and Quartz Mountains of nearby SW Oklahoma, the Rita Blanca National Grasslands, Alibates Flint Quarries National Monument, the awesome multicolored deserts of nearby NM, and the National Forests in the same area. Lots of native plants in the area that are still somewhat underutilized in the nursery industry growing in surrounding areas near to Amarillo to select from, if you're interested in the nursery aspect. Like rcnaylor said, I don't think you have to worry about population crowding being a problem in the area for probably about say...200 years or so at least? he he
I also think land can be bought for reasonably cheap prices as well. I would also agree that if you're an Easterner (most seem to see this area as stark and lifeless, which it isn't!) or someone who prefers forested or heavily treed areas, you might not like it, but there are trees, native and cultivated, and you can grow lots of trees in the area.

I'd also say that many spots in New Mexico have many of these same things going for them as Amarillo, except usually more mountains and more forests at different elevations on the mountains, although the lower altitude areas are more similar to Amarillo.

Ha. And, heck of a post for the Amarillo area Kman!

You are right about the perils of an occaisional white out and sometimes matching monster drifts around here in the winter... but not TOO often. We've hardly had any snow this year (but, low visibility from blowing snow twice, go figure).

All in all, much to offer over the heat and humidity of alot of the lower moister climes of Texas, if you don't mind some cold in the winter.

If its some snow and "seasons" you want, we got'em.

Can you tell I've spent some time in the Amarillo area? lol
I still remember the Harvey House Hotel, now a Sheraton or something, eating great home made meals at a friend's grandmother's house on Sundays, and eating at the Big Texan. Had a buddy try to eat the 44oz or some other ungodly proportioned steak for a "free" meal. Needless to say, it didn't work out too well for him, either time he tried! LOL!

Palo Duro aka the little grand canyon, is still one of the best kept secrets around I think. I've always thought the scenery in and around Amarillo was quite interesting and beautiful, but if you just stuck to I-40 and passed on through you would miss a lot of it.

For desired purchases of large land plots for beginning a nursery, there are also nice areas along the Southern border of Missouri. Start your research journey from I 44 in western, southern Missouri, around Springfield, Missouri and go eastward toward and through Poplar Bluff and on toward Sikeston, Missouri. This is a part of Missouri sandwiched between I44 near the western border and I55 near Missouri's eastern border.

If you wind through the parts of southern Missouri which are more South than Springfield, you encounter more wooded and hilly areas, but taking the track across to Sikeston and a track just slightly south of that track you will encounter more gentle rolling stretches of land that are fertile, and very beautiful.

The area more toward the center of the southern border which is just north of Golden Missouri and a fair ways eastward is a good area to research, just make sure to stay far enough away from the New Madrid fault, which seems to run near this lattitude along the Mississippi river. That is, if you want to greatly decrease your exposure to the catastrophic risk from any destructive potential that fault threatens.

The area is a USDA 6 zone, with considerably more moderate summers than the Texas or even Northeast OK summer heat. The beautiful rolling land in this Missouri region is afforable, and is only higher priced near the resort towns found in the more mountainous type, hilly and wooded areas like around Branson, Mo.

I seldom, if ever, see reports of tornadoes tracking though this area of Missouri. At least nothing like I see reported so often occuring in parts of Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas and some parts of Arkansas.