skip to main content

Oldest Roses

11 years ago

I was wondering what are the oldest roses that are still known about?

I know of Autumn Damask and Officinalis or Apothecary's Rose..

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (18)

ogrose_tx
11 years ago
Isn't R. Moschata supposed to be very old, like the 1500's?
JessicaBe
Original Author
11 years ago
HMF doesn't even say how old it is haha but I have been looking and I found the Double Musk and the Hildesheim Rose
Related Discussions
oldest rose you have (successfully) moved
Q
Comments (16)
Campanula, you can certainly do that 2 season thing but in my opinion there's absolutely no need to. Just move it during its dormancy even without any soil on it's roots and no fibrous roots whatsoever. New fibrous roots will start growing immediately after re-plant unless soil is frozen (if it is you shouldn't move the rose in the first place). Remember this was probably the way it was originally sold to you. Any plant that goes into winter dormancy can be moved bare root as long as it can be pruned hard. I tend to think that this can be a better way of moving a rose in its dormancy than carrying a root ball with it since you will avoid issues with rootball soil incompatibility with soil in the new spot drainage wise and you will also avoid the odd chance of the 'pot' syndrome (i.e. the new roots growing all around the rootball as if they were in a pot rather than growing into the new soil). If however you want to do this 2 season exercise, you will have to hard prune the rose twice. Since you mentioned hybiscus have you tried moving one? They have a huge hellical tap root that goes very very deep like a giant corkscrew. They are beasts to uproot and sensitive after that. I have successfully managed to move a 10 year old one almost bare root and with severely cut back root system and this in the beginning of the summer season. It took a drip irrigator and a couple of seasons for it to recover but recovered it has. Since I did that I have no fear to move any rose although this is not something I practice regularly. Nik This post was edited by nikthegreek on Thu, Jan 9, 14 at 13:35
...See More
Trivia...just for fun
Q
Comments (54)
Rose history choices: I still have the monster Alba SemiPlena that I planted next to the Apothecary's Rose, long removed since ASP was trying to eat it alive. I think those are the roses of York/Lancaster War Fame. In which case the victorious white rose is fitting, if I have my Tudor dynastic history right, but it has been a while. Personal history - I have a piece of a rugosa hybrid that survived all the rose cane borer tragedy a few years ago. We all think it is probably Hansa, introduced in the early 1900's. The original for me came from a sucker in my mother's back yard, and hers came from the door yard at my father's parents' farm. Town records first mention the farm in my grandfather's name in 1915, when my dad was 2. My dad's older siblings all describe the rose being there as far back as they could remember. My grandmother had very few ornamentals - her annual effort was to plant petunias in the holes of concrete blocks lining the edge of the sidewalk. There was a mock orange bush, a lilac by the hencoop, and that rose bush. Nothing else "for pretty". She had a good friend, a farmwife up the road, that I remember visiting with her, and that woman had her homemade lawn chairs - benches really - in the middle of a riotous backyard of flowers. I like to think that my grandmother's rose might have been a gift from that neighbor. My grandparents were two of a community of truck gardeners who supplied the Springfield Mass area until post WW II interstates and children who didn't want to farm ended it. So it was a pretty intense plant-focused area, with several of the families now in the fourth generation who are focusing on a few types of produce (vineripened tomatoes, fresh corn, pickyour own berry operations)and mostly ornamental horticulture. Most of them are married to people with "real jobs" that bring benefits and cash flow... Anyway, back to the rose - I was devastated when I thought I had lost it five years ago. My original sucker, planted in 1987, had become a thicket, from which I had moved just one sucker that sprung up in the grass and looked just too confident to mow over. That baby was tucked in by the giant Alba, next to a chunk of granite that marked the edge of the driveway, where it was forgotten. You know where this is going - yup, the giant thicket of rugosa dead and gone. But the year after the Cane Borer Scourge was a memory, and I had cut down and removed all the evidence from the thicket as well as several other rugosa hybrid victims, guess who came peeking up - from the other side of the granite! Yup. It is growing kind of weirdly sideways, but has blossomed for the last two years. So I am waiting for the first strong sucker over there, and I am going to give it a Prime Spot by my back door. Gotta love those rugosas.
...See More
What is a Gallica rose?
Q
Comments (0)
Another of the oldest roses which also goes by the name of The French Rose or rose of Provins. These roses are usually compact with rough leaves , semi-double or double flowers and are practically thornless. They flower in midsummer and do not complain about poorer soils.
...See More
Pics from May 27 Wyck House Rose Festival
Q
Comments (17)
Thanks everyone! Carol, mcnastarana & monarda, glad the pics are helpful in your ID quests. Mcnastarana, if you decide Amelia & Celsiana are different, consider adding Celsiana to your garden if you have room. I really couldn't get enough of that rose...kept going back again & again to admire and sniff it. Monarda, it appeared blooms on their Tuscany showed their stamens soon after opening and blooms were a bit darker in person than what my camera phone captured. And Carol, I'm sorry I didn't get a better picture of La Belle Sultane for you to compare. It really was a lovely rose in person...wish I had taken more pictures of it before my camera died. John, Thank goodness Wyck wasn't offering shipping on the roses they were selling at the festival (gallon pots grown from their cuttings) or I am sure I would now be the proud owner of a bunch of roses that would hate my climate/conditions. I imagine they would be willing to ship to Vintage under the circumstances, though.
...See More
jacqueline9CA
11 years ago
I would presume that some of the species roses have to be millions of years old - you would have to look for info on fossils of roses that have been found...

Jackie
odinthor
11 years ago
What about Damask 'Sancta'? "Evidence of this rose was found in the Egyptian tombs of the Second to Fifth Centuries A.D.," according to a l'Hay publication of 1910.
rosefolly
11 years ago
The species roses are the oldest around. R moschata is a species rose, so it would be one of them.

I read recently that the Romans grew gallicas, though what specific sorts I have no idea. With their keen interest in agriculture and their growing of roses for production, I would imagine they selected for quality. Who knows if any of their varieties survived the chaos of the collapse of the empire.

Rosefolly
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
11 years ago
I believe Old Blush is thought to be very, very old, perhaps even close to a thousand years, although it didn't reach Europe until the 1700's.

Ingrid
odinthor
11 years ago
The accompanying link brings you to a picture of roses on an ancient Roman mural in the House of Livia, Rome, dating to 30 - 20 BC. Has anyone gathered images of roses as represented in Roman, or other ancient, art? It would be interesting to compare and contrast them, and try to figure out what they represent.

Here is a link that might be useful: Roses on the Mural in the House of Livia, Rome
JessicaBe
Original Author
11 years ago
Odinthor that photo is beautiful! I think I am gonna have to get the Cabbage rose.. I have been looking at it for a few months now :)... The only thing I found on Sancta what this http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.2347.5

Jackie fossils of roses... I never heard of that!

Rosefolly that would be something to look into so see if any of them did survive. Maybe they did and the people who made the empire fall took them and renamed them...
cramoisi
11 years ago
Jessica,

What an interesting question. I can supply dates from my database, if that would help. This may be a bit sketchy, but it should be fun. I welcome corrections.

The earliest dated rose in my database from the 15th century:

Cuisse de Nymphe.

Late 16th century and early 17th century:

Conditorum, circa 1588 and Four Seasons Rose of Paestum at 1633.

18th century:

Mutabilis before 1732 and Charles de Mills at 1790 and Old Blush 1793.

Discovered in the 19th century but presumably older:

Fortune's Double Yellow, discovered by Robert Fortune in 1845.

Best,

Larry

Rosefolly -- Fascinating about the Romans and their Gallicas.
JessicaBe
Original Author
11 years ago
Ingrid old blush is beautiful and if it did only reach Europe until then it must be old.
cath41
11 years ago
Rosa Mundi, the variegated sport of the Apothecary rose is very old too although not as old as the Apothecary rose itself. The old Pickering catalogs used to state year of introduction perhaps they still do. I used to scan down the list of old roses to get this information. It was quick to find.

Cath
palustris
11 years ago
For those interested in rose history, Brent Dickerson has written a nice synopsis.

Here is a link that might be useful: OLD ROSE HISTORY AND SYNOPSIS by Brent C. Dickerson
seil zone 6b MI
11 years ago
The oldest one I've ever found is the alba, Great Maiden's Blush, which HMF dates as "before 1400". It's also the one with the most names I've ever found at 32 aliases.
catsrose
11 years ago
The age of discovery/introduction into written [Western] literature is not the same as the age of the rose. Roses like R. Moschata, Old Blush, the Apothecary are older than our records of them. And undoubtedly the Romans--and probably the Greeks, Persians, Chinese--had cultivars that have died out.
cath41
11 years ago
Catspa,

Of necessity, every rose exists before its date of introduction. The date of introduction is the earliest recorded date found to date. It is possible that another culture, for example, the Chinese had cultivars named before the western date of introduction and we have not yet connected them with the western name. However, the Chinese were much more enchanted with the peony than with the rose. It is the westerners who were enchanted with the rose.

Cath
jacqueline9CA
11 years ago
I just googled "fossils of roses", and found several articles - bottom line, they have found fossils of roses (species, of course) all over the world, oldest date from 35 - 50 MILLION years ago.

Jackie
cath41
11 years ago
Uh oh! I meant "Catsrose" not "Catspa" sorry I confused you two. I only figured it out when the hardiness zones seemed to conflict.

Cath
JessicaBe
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks everyone sorry I haven't posted sooner but I was reading articles and researching all of those and then some :)

Related Stories

BOOKS 11 Great Children’s Books About Home (and 2 Honorable Mentions)

By Caela McKeever

Homes come in many different shapes and sizes, and these kids’ books highlight the tallest, the smallest, the oldest and the silliest

GARDENING GUIDES Great Design Plant: Rosa Banksiae a Low-Maintenance Beauty

By Noelle Johnson Landscape Consulting

This thornless, disease- and insect-resistant rose brings showers of white or yellow flowers to the spring garden

PLANTING IDEAS Modern Planting Ideas From a Historic English Garden

Low-maintenance, climate-fitting plants are just the beginning of the good things in this bishop’s updated garden

INSPIRING GARDENS Spring Garden Ideas From Colonial Williamsburg

By Paintbox Garden

Discover old-time resourcefulness — how gardeners worked the land, used local materials and more — to apply to your landscape today

HOUZZ TOURS My Houzz: Beautifully Tucked Away in Somerset

By Victoria Harrison

This traditional country home gets a sympathetic restoration under its owner's careful eye

VALENTINE’S DAY The Real Importance of Valentine’s Day

By Alison Hodgson

Even small traditions celebrating love can carry through an entire life

LIFE 10 Ways to Work Through Grief Triggers During the Holidays

By Shelly Miller Leer

A year after losing her sister, she was facing another holiday. Here’s how one woman learned to find joy again

HOLIDAYS Houzz Call: Share Your Personal Holiday Traditions

By Becky Harris

What winter rituals mean the most to you and yours? Post your stories and pictures

PETS Houzz Call: Send in the Design Cats

By Sheila Schmitz

Post your best photo of your cat at home, in the garden or with you in your studio. It could be published in a featured ideabook

FURNITURE Abraham Lincoln Sat (and Flirted) Here

By Mary Jo Bowling

A restored sofa in Illinois gives us a front seat to history

Sponsored

KP Designs Group

50 Reviews

Franklin County's Unique and Creative Residential Interior Design Firm

More Discussions

OGRs and rose shows

18

'International Herald Tribune'

4

Just a bit of amusement to make you smile...

6

Pax, hybrid musk, Pemberton, 1918

2

I like when buds have this quality

4