A good many years ago it must have been popular to plant gingkos in Vicksburg, MS, because there are quite a few of them in that town. The ones that are planted in front of the old courthouse are wide spreading - each tree has plenty of room. I saw several trees growing in narrow areas between houses that were columnar, so I assume that gingkos, like other trees, spread out in plenty of sun and grow tall and skinny in shaded areas, as they do in the woods. The trees in front of the courthouse are female or mostly female - I visited the museum there one year when their fruit was all over the ground, and it had the most offensive odor I've ever sniffed from a plant! I don't know about the ones growing in tighter places, they could have been male or female. I doubt that the sex of the tree has anything to do with its growth habit, but probably some of the really knowledgeable people that post on this forum will know the answer to that - I also don't know about the roots, never having planted one myself. In the fall, they make the most beautiful, glowingly golden yellow leaves I've ever seen - gingkos are truly unique trees!
Sherry

The princeton sentry is a COLUMNAR cultivar. It will be narrow in habit not wide and spreading like G. biloba species.

I don't know about the roots but it is a large tree, suffice it to say planting it close a sidewalk or pavement and having problems decades down the road is pretty much a guarantee with any large tree.

misssherry,
I'm familiar with that "lovely" ginkgo fruit odor! There's one outside a professional building near me, and that's why I chose the male tree. I've read some people really prize that fruit and make teas and the like from it! Yuck!

I only mentioned the sex of the tree because I was told that in general males grow slightly less spreading and females more spreading. I don't know if that's for fruiting trees, all trees, or just ginkgos.

The leaves in the fall are spectacular but when they fall they really fall quickly! Last year they were beautiful one day and the next morning they were all gone! Song Sparrow has two striped ginkgos in their '07 catalog. I put the link to my favorite one below.

quirkyquercus,
Your post made me choke on my tea! I'M SHOCKED! All this time I thought I planted the wide spreading Ginkgo! I've been patiently waiting for them to start to spread out all this time! I thought they just grew like this when young and would spread with age! I'm so mad because I specifically asked the nursery arborist several times about the growth habit of this tree and was assured it would be a spreading type! This is the most respected nursery in the area too! I feel like I've been robbed!

Deep breath... Ok, well at least they're healthy and nice looking trees anyway, I guess. Nevertheless, I'm incredibly disappointed! Do you happen to know what the spreading types are called? I might look into a few of those, sigh. What about the Maidenhair Ginkgo?

Here is a link that might be useful: Ginkgo Biloba 'Majestic Butterfly'

Those leaves are GORGEOUS!
Sherry

If a tree has more than adequate light and space, it's as likely to spread, rather than 'reach'. And it also depends on the variety - some are genetically spreaders, and others more columnar.

why oh why cant they leave things as they are? ginkgo is a wonderful tree with fantastic leaves,we don't need these awful stripy cultivars! i'm sorry but its a unique tree,a one off,it should be left that way!

If you type in princeton sentry ginkgo into google then click on the images tab at the top of the results page you will see many pics of princeton sentry. They're supposed to get to 16'x50' or so. I'm sorry that you were dealt some bad info. I have one and really had to hunt it down to use in a tight squeeze area.

"why oh why cant they leave things as they are? ginkgo is a wonderful tree with fantastic leaves,we don't need these awful stripy cultivars! i'm sorry but its a unique tree,a one off,it should be left that way!"

Hear, hear! Well said!

Resin

I can't believe that a "well respected" nursery would not know that 'Princeton Sentry' is a columnar form of ginkgo - the term "sentry" in the name should be some clue, plus this is a very widely available and commonly sold cultivar. FWIW, "maidenhair" is a common name applied to any gingko and if you are seeing one with this designation, it is likely just the species and female to boot - males tend to be named forms. For a spreading male, 'Autumn Gold' would have been my recommendation.

As to why columnar forms of trees are bred or developed, it is because the gardening public has expressed a demand for them with their buying practices. Columnar ginkgos grow into beautiful trees with as much appeal as a fully spreading form and are well suited to the smaller gardens most of us have as well as being excellent street trees and ideal for screening purposes.

Let's not get too snobby about being tree "purists". If that were the case, we would be sorely limited in our selections of countless conifers, not to mention Japanese maples.

Yeah um sorry we can't all live on 10 acres. We need more columnars and dwarfs for the tiny yards of today.

Thank you all for your responses.

lucy5,
They have all the light and room they want to spread so I'm hoping for a miracle!

quirkyquercus,
I have found many different pictures and descriptions of the Princeton Sentry. The nursery professionals (where I got it)told me that nobody is really sure what they'll look like because none have been around long enough to reach maturity yet. I thought that was strange but they assured me it's true. My trees are the irregular type, their shapes are just like the fall yellow ginkgo at the bottom of the page found at the link below. I was told they grow like this when young and would spread wide with age. I also remember being told they were slow growers, which they seem to be.

greenlarry and pineresin,
I hear what you're saying, yet for some reason, with all due respect, I still like the stripy ones! The only way I can see them being "awful" is if they're planted with something that clashes or if there are too many of them. I was thinking they might look nice with a background of green spruces. At least it would be different than the red twig dogwood/spruce combinations we have so much of in my area. :)

gardengal48,
I purchased them when this nursery had just opened their new expanded location. They were closed for most of the season because of the move and were looking to move some merchandise before fall, so their prices for nice trees and shrubs were fantastic. That's why I feel robbed! I feel like they were telling me what I wanted to hear to sell as much as possible so they would have less to store for winter or less loss. Trouble is I'm sure I would have spent just as much but perhaps on something else. I knew very little of ginkgos when I purchased them other than what a leaf looked like. They are highly regarded in my area.

Thanks so much for the 'Autumn Gold' tip, I'm going to find one this summer and plant it elsewhere in my yard. I really wanted the spreading type!

What does FWIW mean?

Funny you mentioned Japanese maples, I'm going to post a question I have on that at some point but I'm trying to read up on it first.

On another note, something interesting I noticed... A Ginkgo our friends planted under their mature Black Walnuts, over 20 years ago, has hardly put on any growth. Nobody knows the variety but the tree is planted on the sunny edge of the grove. It is alive and seems to put on about 1" of growth per year. It is about 6' tall and about 2" in trunk girth. When purchased it was in a one gallon pot, about 4' tall with a 3/4" trunk. I have read that Ginkgos are tough and I think this is a good example of how tough they are. We were offered the tree but I think I will make sure I know what I'm getting this time. I don't have enough room to make many more mistakes like this! :)

Here is a link that might be useful: My trees look like the yellow one at the bottom of this page

FWIW= for what its worth

The nursery professionals (where I got it)told me that nobody is really sure what they'll look like because none have been around long enough to reach maturity yet.

While it's true that ginkgos can be very long-lived, this statement is a bit silly at best. 'Princeton Sentry' has been around plenty long enough for well-established trees to have developed a mature form and growth habit. Yes, growth will continue as long as the trees remain alive but at a slow rate and not to the extent that the form will change significantly - a tree with a columnar habit doesn't just become widely spreading with advanced age. And I think it's rather telling that countless sources will quote similar mature size, spread and habit for this cultivar while your nursery "professionals" remain pretty much in the dark. Would lead one to wonder exactly how professional they truly are.

I'd consider ginkgos to be quite slow growing so your young trees may not look those in the attached link for some time, but they'll get there eventually.

Here is a link that might be useful: ginkgo 'Princeton Sentry'

Mine is about 2" in diamter and yet has only 3 lateral branches. It looks like a scarecrow with two arms sticking out at the side. The picture inthe link posted by gardengal is what I'm hoping it will look like some day.

This was a very expensive lesson we learned the hard way. We'll also never go to that nursery again. Even so, I'm not sure how sucessful we'll be in actually getting what we want because I think all nurseries in our area operate like this at least to some degree. Perhaps some of it is unintentional, just a lack of knowledge or something but yet it happens. We purchased a beautiful large Scarlett Oak at another nursery (it was tagged but all the trees had handwritten plastic tags) and now we think it's a Red Oak instead. Nice tree but not what we wanted, sigh...

gardengal48, the ginkgos in the link are beautiful and I look forward to their maturity, even if columnar.

quirkyquercus, I know what you mean. When I look at my trees they look like they're having a bad hair day too. Lol!

Hello all -
Check out Whitman farms. I purchased 2 Princeton Sentrys, 1 Magyar, 1 Fairmount and a female cultivar. They are reasonable and have a nice selection of trees. I bought a Turkey Oak (Quercus cerris)from Arborday - Are they closed? I got no response from them as of this month.
I lost a lot of trees in the October Massacre Storm that hit Buffalo, NY.
I have two Ginkgo trees that I planted in 1995 as bonsi starters about 10" tall.I bought them at a local nursery - Galleys. I fertilized, watered well and they are around 20' tall. One appears to be a wide spreading form similar to Autumn Gold - no label/pedigree!!!The other was labeled as Fastigatia. It was forming an unusual shape, but the October Massacre Storm took the entire top off it so I have to wait for it to grow a new leader. In my observations, Ginkgos seem to grow new leaders without a problem.

I have ordered 1 Bracken' Brown Beauty and 1 Edith Bogue Southern Magnolia (Forest Farms) along with seeds for Albizia julibrissin 'Summer Chocolate' Mimosa from 2 sources. I have 4 small A. julibrissin from Treeguy last spring (Thank you)plus 1 seed sprouted from the tree he posted detailed directions to in the Buffalo, NY area.

Thats all for now - KA

If you stop going to any nursery that gives you bad information, you're not going to have too many trees in your yard!

Look for quality and look for tags. Never buy on your first visit. Write down what they have, then come home and google what you found and do your homework. The retail garden center associates typically aren't that knowledgable about what they're selling. At least that's been my finding.

QQ - thanks for that ringing endorsement :-) LOL!!

IMO, that's a bit of a broad generality but could very well be rather regional in its appropriateness. Here, retail nurseries pride themselves on having sales staff that include Certified Professional Horticulturists, which requires a rather intensive testing process under the sponsorship of the Washington State Nursery and Landscape Association and that covers all manner of plant ID, design, plant pathology and general horticultural information. Additionally, my nursery has a dozen permanent staff members that hold horticultural degrees - what they in combination don't know about the plants we sell ain't worth knowing!!

btw, I'd have to say growers tags are one of the least reliable sources of plant information. They consistently have mislabeled (not quite the same as misidentified) plants, or those that still carry outdated names, incorrect sizing and much more often than one should find, inappropriate siting and cultural information.

But the recommendation to do your research before you visit or before you buy is well-advised.

How do order from Whitman farms? Do they send trees in decent shape, not all pruned to heck? There is a website, but no ordering info.

I knew I was going to offend someone. I need to learn to keep my big mouth shut. *I'm sorry*

If I'm wrong, you'd think there'd be more such workers on this or the other tree forums, reading up and learning about trees and helping people but no there's what??? 100 regulars across the tree boards? Not too many people seem to be fascinated with trees to the point of discussing them online. Then again, what's there to know... Would you like a crepe myrtle? How about a leyland cypress? These euonymous are lovely. Or how about a silver maple? Tree not growing fast enough? Try some miracle grow.

Oh how can I forget this one...

"We don't carry those. They don't grow here."

In defense of nurseries thou, not that I disagree about all the stupid things that some employees do say...

...but do you ever listen to the things that half the customers ask the store? The customers either want a tree that grows extremely fast and easy with no work whatsoever or a bush/ small tree that is just like a plastic plant, never grows tall or ever needs to be pruned, needs no care whasover, grows anywhere and flowers all the time. It's like picking out a piece of art because it matches the sofa, not buying a living, growing thing.

It would drive me nuts. You would have to placate and patronize many people. And almost nobody knows everything about every plant at the nursery.

QQ, I was pulling your leg - I wasn't offended so no need to apologize :-)

You do make some valid points. I certainly can't speak to the knowledge base of nursery sales staff across the country and no doubt there are nurseries everywhere that have their share of less-than-well-informed employees. The nursery that is referred to in the original post of this thread is a case in point. One thing to consider is that to the customer, anyone working at a nursery is considered by them to be a "plant person" - this includes even the temporary seasonal staff, often high school kids hired to water, stock or run errands and load cars. And I can't tell you how many times I've encountered frustrated customers trying to ask plant questions of our Guatemalan production crew, who barely speak English.

As to why don't more nursery employees participate on these forums, I can't answer that question. Maybe they don't care to admit to it, as iVillage does have restrictions regarding business interests and they think that revealing their occupation somehow violates this restriction. Or perhaps it is a time factor. Personally, I am a self-admitted plant geek and reading about, growing and discussing plants absorbs me more than it probably should. I am a bit obsessive about learning about plants and the forums are a constant learning experience for me as well as place to share the modest amount I do know.

And the "We don't carry those. They don't grow here." statement is more relevant than you might think. Customers ask for the strangest things and at the oddest times of year (I had someone in looking for basil last week - last frost is not until early May). I might modify that to read "We don't carry those, they tend not to do well in our area", or won't survive the winter, or they're considered invasive or too disease-prone, etc., etc.

Noki-
I emailed Lucille, the owner. She was prompt in answering. I asked if she had what I was interested in, she said yes and put them aside.I ordered small trees as I can train them as they grow. They arrived in a timely manner and not pruned at all. They were small, but that is what I wanted.
Hope this helps.
Gerry

I have a "spring grove" Ginkgo and the leaves have become brittle and are falling off the small 2 foot tree. What can I do to save the tree?

I've noticed that while young they stay columnar like a willow oak or pin oak but will eventually spread out. I saw some older specimens looking at historic neighborhoods in Charleston, SC and they were beautiful with their fall color and with a wide canopy.

Madgoose - what are they planted (soil, container, etc.) and how good is the drainage? How much sun do they get and how often are they watered?

Lucy, the Ginkgo is planted in a clay soil which doesn't get the best drainage. It is planted in full sun. But this year has been somewhat dry but because of the clay soil I think it has remained moist. Should I dig it out and plant it in better drainage soil now or wait until it gets a bit colder. I have been looking forward to seeing this grow and would hate to loose it.

While clay soil does stay wetter for longer than sandy soil, when it dries out, it gets VERY hard, and is slow to re-wet, as any rain tends to run off at first. Mine are growing fine in clay soil with irregular watering (long, slow, deep waterings) their first year. I did mulch mine well, and have watered as irregularly for the past 2 years, but kept the mulch up.

Madgoose, if your tree was properly planted, as far as planting practices and depth goes, and as long as you can give it the equivalent of an inch of rain per week, first digging down into the soil to see if the top few inches is wet - if dry, water, if damp, wait and check again another day - then I can only strongly suggest that if you haven't already done so, you should mulch around the tree.

Mulch helps keep the soil moist, and a bit cooler, and, as the mulch breaks down, it improves the soil. Use an aged hardwood mulch or pinestraw, for my preferences, but if all you can get is pine bark or grass/lawn clippings, then use them. The bark will be much slower to break down and won't add as much to the soil. Lawn clippings are good as long as you don't pile them on deeply while they are still green and wet - they then tend to mat, go anaerobic, get slimy and shed water - they also stink. Let the clippings dry out a bit before you pile them up, and they will be fine. Apply any mulch as widely as you can (at least 3' in diameter, more is better, up to 10'), no more than 4" deep, and put no mulch in the 2-4" right next to the trunk, so you don't encourage rot down the road - a very light sprinkle, to blend in, is OK. Good luck.