I forgot to ask one more question:

About how far will a 50lb. bag of alfalfa go? I need to figure out how many bags I need to provide the green layers in the 4 compost bins at 1 cubic yard (3ft deep) each. Thank you.

Hi John,

I'm just reading this forum and also posted a question. Regarding your post - Used coffee grounds as "greens" worked for my pile. You can go to Starbucks and ask for the grounds. The manager at my local store saves the grounds and I have been going twice a week to pick them up. What's great is that the grounds are free.

I just did a quick search on the web and the coffee grounds sound like a great idea. Just need to figure out how to explain to 2nd graders that brown coffee grounds are a "green"! I will look into obtaining some grounds from local shops. Thank you.

Sincerely,
John

A couple of newbies helping each other out...
that's awesome ;-)

I haven't seen Lloyd around lately, (he is our master composter), he has done experiments with hay as browns before (if I remember correctly,he said hay has too much lignin ??? and so it takes forever to break down, and gardengal (i think) uses Alfalfa and she loves it.

I just use steer manure,lawn clippings,garden refuse,and leaves

works like a charm ;-)

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I commend you for starting this program. Teaching children about gardening and composting at an early age will be very useful for them later.

I've used alfalfa pellets to help with decomposition of the sawdust/fine wood shavings I use as the 'brown' in composting. While I don't measure exactly and I use my finished product as a mulch I do know that alfalfa will cause quick heating when mixed with sawdust. If I were only using alfalfa and sawdust I would try a 2:1 ratio. Since hay has a higher nitrogen value than sawdust you might try a 1:2 hay:alfalfa ratio. Do an experiment, you can always easily add more alfalfa.

Are you planning to chop the hay? Hay can be dusty and could have mold spores (depending on various factors) so it needs to be handled carefully. Dampening with water will reduce dust. Since I use the pelletized alfalfa I don't know if the meal is dusty but careful handling of various materials is also a good thing to learn.

I wonder if you'd have enough veggie waste if every child collected from friends, relatives, and their own homes for a week or so. Might be a project for the entire school to do.

Like Jon I use grass clippings as a green in my compost pile. It's free and plentiful just about everywhere.
Maybe you can get the maintenance workers at your school to bag the grass from your athletic fields or maybe you can get landscapers to drop off a load when needed.
Just make sure that the grass is untreated without any weedkillers or other harmful stuff.

Could you get kitchen scraps from the school lunch garbage?

The brown I use most in my compost is paper! I allow my students to tear their used, unneeded loose leaf paper into strips. I have a paper yard waist bag in my classroom especially for collecting the paper when it is full I bring it home. You can bring it down to the compost pile. The kids love to shred stuff and get a kick out of the fact that I take it home and make compost with it.

PS I know there is controversy about using paper for browns but I use it anyway. I have a flower garden.

"...he has done experiments with hay as browns before..."

I've used wheat straw as an exclusive brown, never used alfalfa or hay per se.

Lloyd

WOO HOO
Lloyd is back.... YEE HAW

I was just about to bring out the "big guns"

My Favorite Lloyd post :

Come on now Jon, you're being unreasonable. Every question or thought posted on this forum can be solved with any of the following answers:
A) You don't need that
B) It costs money, you don't need that.
C) It harms the environment, you don't need that.
D) I don't use that, you don't need that.
E) Studies have shown you don't need that.
F) I've communicated with people all over the world, you don't need that.
G) A good reliable soil test indicates you don't need that.
H) I don't know anything about the subject or your circumstances but you don't need that.
;-)
Lloyd
P.S. Keep your stick on the ice!

Alfalfa pellets, or cubes, usually are not dusty. I have found that if they are they are quite old and stale, and do not smell very good either.
You can use a wide variety of material as your "green", just be sure the kids know that a "green" in compostspeak is a substance that has a high Nitrogen content and animal manures, although brown in color, are just a substance. Most all of the food we eat the green stuff is what has the high Nitrogen, but things such as dried (baked) beans also do.
I've found that adults have a more difficult time grasping that concept then do kids.

You say you are getting bales of hay for your browns. Do you mean bales of straw? At least around here if I go and get a bale of hay it is alfalfa, maybe a grass alfalfa mix. Are hay is a green. You may need to look for browns. I would suggest you find out exactly what you are getting. There is a difference between straw and hay at lest here in my area.

I agree with groem, hay can be much less of an C provider than expected.

"Keep your stick on the ice!"

That reminds me. There is one other way to avoid answering questions...Quando omni flunkus moritati...When all else fails, play dead.

tj

Come on now Jon, you're being unreasonable. Every question or thought posted on this forum can be solved with any of the following answers:
A) You don't need that
B) It costs money, you don't need that.
C) It harms the environment, you don't need that.
D) I don't use that, you don't need that.
E) Studies have shown you don't need that.
F) I've communicated with people all over the world, you don't need that.
G) A good reliable soil test indicates you don't need that.
H) I don't know anything about the subject or your circumstances but you don't need that.
;-)
Lloyd
P.S. Keep your stick on the ice!

The accumulated wisdom of the ages. Beautiful!

If you are allergic to alfalfa, then you might be in trouble.

I would not layer greens and browns. You'll get layers of pure stink doing that.

Alfalfa is a great green. If there is any problem using it in compost is that you are spending money on a perfectly good fertilizer and turning it into a poor fertilizer.

Alfalfa and coffee grounds are green because they contain at least 6% protein. Lettuce leaves are a brown because they have no appreciable amount of protein. The protein count is what makes an organic material green or brown. Color has nothing to do with it. Whoever came up with that distinction should be shot.

Here are some greens:
corn
wheat
soy
flax
coffee grounds
alfalfa
cottonseed
meat
blood
hair
skin
animal dung
most grasses

Here are some browns
most leaves
branches of trees and shrubs
paper
fruit and veggies
skins of fruit and veggies

John, isn't it amazing that so many people are will to voice their opinions on everything except what you asked about.

A little Googling of "C:N ratio alfalfa pellets" yielded a C:N ratio of 15:1, which is almost as potent as grass clippings. It will certainly work as a green.

I agree with other posts that said:

- Hay is also a green, you need straw, paper etc.
- If there's a cafeteria, you have a source of free greens (although that's a whole different project that may need to wait till next season - maybe get the compost operation going first, *then* reach for food waste.
- Lawn clippings from the school grounds is a great idea too.
- Mixing materials is better than layering esp. with something like alfalfa meal or pellets that will get wet and mat down.

You'll have to take a stab at the ratios and observe and adjust. If it smells bad after a couple days, add more browns.

Good luck and keep us posted!

You might have better luck reproducing a successful pile using the same meal and browns each time as different sources of both greens and browns can easily have different characteristics, both physical and chemical that will affect the composting process. A good example is bales of alfalfa, the nitrogen content of the alfalfa can vary widely depending on what stage of growth the alfalfa was in when it was cut and baled. Get a compost thermometer and use it on a daily basis at least. Take lots of records like what went into the pile, starting pile temp., all temp readings, when you turn the pile, if you have to add water to it. Kids can be involved in all of this.