Sounds like a plan. With your daily temps, you might think about covering the area with plastic to conserve water. As long as you keep the green/brown materials in balance everything should break down within those 6 - 8 months.

Thank you!

Me, I've been planning the trench idea, but for different reasons, and I dearly hope that I'm thinking right about this.

Got a new bed for veggies ready to be planted next week. Have oodles of half-finished compost (still recognizable veggies and peels, and much too wet from the rain, and lots of spud volunteers) from two full piles that I have been planning to put into a trench dug straight down the middle of the bed. (Plan to water with buried clay pots and plastic bottles. Anyone have experience with this or should I ask on the Irrigation forum?). Got huge piles of pulled weeds gone to seed off in a corner - no I won't spread them around. Trench to be about a foot deep in horrible, rocky, no OM ground, but diggable. We get full sun and no more rain till October, and searing temps in summer. Would like to hear about my plans within the week, as I'm having a garden elf party next week with about ten friends who are coming over to help me create it all. Any thoughts?

1."I understand that tilling destroys the soil's precious microbial life and try to avoid that if possible. "

2."I plan to create a new hole every few days and dump in the latest kitchen scraps, cover with soil and mulch, and keep damp. "

3."Does anyone see a problem with this plan? Am I realistic to think that the material in the trench will break down by the end of this year? "

(1) It's possible that undeveloped soil doesn't have the wondrous denizens of which you speak. I wouldn't obsess about tilling.

(2) Anecdotally, doing this to barren sub-soil,(about 1' deep), keeping damp is unnecessary. But I don't have sandy soil.

(3) Nope. The only thing left after 6-7 months, HERE, in the abovementioned barren soil is tomato skins and certain fruit pits.

That's what I've been doing off and on for almost 30 years and it works really well to improve soil. The first garden I used this method in had heavy grey clay soil under the 2" of topsoil. After 3 years the soil was rich and dark.

Once the earthworms find that buried treasure they will be very happy and will multiply and give you lots of castings which are an excellent soil amendment.

In your hot climate mulching will be essential to keep the soil moist - earthworms will not stay in dry soil. Grass clippings make great mulch and even better mixed with chopped leaves. I've found, depending on the type of veggie scraps that are buried, that it often decomposes in a few weeks.

I am working on a trench compost for a asparagus bed.

Here is a link that might be useful: redworm trench composting

Trench composting has been used by people to prepare new gardens for centuries. The only real downside is the wait to plant because the undigested material in the soil could cause the Soil Food Web to work on digesting that and not providing the plants with the nutrients they need to grow.

Kimmsr - Does this mean that you do not advocate the "side dressing" of buried kitchen scraps between rows of veg that many people do? Will it tend to "steal" from the plants that you are trying to grow?

My composting piles are not working well, to much shade, & to close to trees. It takes forever to break down, doesnt get very hot, and I feel like the trees are the only ones that are happy. I had been thinking of just using that area for leaves, and burying my kitchen waste directly in the garden.

IMO the castings the earthworms produce off-set the demand for nutrients by the 'Soil Food Web'. At one time I had a link which showed the amount of castings produced by worms but unfortunately have lost it. It's an impressive amount tho. They really are fantastic producers of very valuable nutrients that are readily available for the plants to use. My plants have always been healthy and do not appear at all lacking in nutrients using this method. I've always buried between the plants and a maximum of a gallon of moist kitchen scraps in each space. There are places in my cottage flower garden where the plants are too close to use this method so I use my compost/mulch there.

I look upon this method as feeding the earthworms and they give back abundantly.

Wait, like the wait for the fruit trees to bear fruit.
Some may not do it because it takes some time.
But we composters are waiting for more compost & better soil.
I work on the trench & the RB & the orchard.
All will bear fruit in it's own season.
"Best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago."
"The second best time is today!" Chinese Proverb

Because putting undigested organic matter into the soil can cause the Soil Food Web to occupy itself with converting that into plant foods and not feed the plants you are growing which would then suffer nutrient deprivation I do not advocate that type of side dressing, mandolls. Now some people, with good soils, have buried vegetative waste in their gardens with no problems, but since most do have I would not advocate doing that.
Composting is not dependant on sunlight for the heat that is generated. That heat is generated by bacterial activity, so if your compost is not heating up the bacteria are not being active enough for some reason. Maybe an improper ratio of C to N, maybe too much moisture which excludes air which they need, maybe too little moisture which they do need to function.

I disagree with those who say you should not till the soil because it will destroy microbial life. Yes, it will knock the mycorrhizal fungus back, but that will recover very quickly if you plant crops that form a relationship. The main ones that do not are brassica, beets, buckwheat, amaranth, and quinoa. Never leave the soil for long without mycorrhizal roots. If you disturb the soil on top first before you till deep, the earth worms will withdraw deep into their burrows. They will explode with growth if you work in organic matter. You are not going to kill off the bacteria, and you will actually encourage more of the good aerobic kind. Most other insects will recover very rapidly in the presence of organic residue. The key is to till in a large amount of organic matter early in winter so the soil has time to recover by spring. Immediately after tilling, plant a cover crop like barley to get mycorrhizal fungus going again. Shallow tilling in spring to prepare the soil for seeding is ok. Deep tilling is only bad in spring just before planting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Building Up Soil

What will encourage earthworms and bacteria (the Soil Food Web) in any soil is organic matter. What will encourage aerobic bacteria to develop is organic matter in the soil. The Soil Food Web does can not exist in soils lacking adequate levels of organic matter.
If your soil is managed properly there is no reason to till it every year.

My head is spinning. %-O

It sounds like rototilling organic amendment into the soil now, then laying a thick layer of mulch on top, and letting it sit through summer will be more effective than burying kitchen scraps between now and November.

GreeneGarden, THANKS.
I till every Fall & till in compost.
In early winter I till in leaves, whole leaves & find NO leaves in the Spring when I plant.
You do not need a lot of things to garden.
You do not need raised beds, if you have rich soil & lots of compost to mulch with. Yes small gardens do better in RBs & the system holds down weeds. But you do not need them to raise organic crops.
So maybe I do not need to till or have raised beds or trench
composting for carrot/parsnip soil beds.
Carrot/parsnip soil is a phrase for deep,at least 12-18 inches,rich soil. This is the best reason for trench composting.

Mycorrhizal fungus must have plant roots in the soil to feed them or they will die. Most plants need mycorrhizal fungus to feed them or they will not thrive. Some types of plants will not grow at all without them. It is a symbiotic relationship. Dumping large amounts of organic matter into or on top of the soil so that you cannot plant for a long period of time will slowly kill the mycorrhizal fungus. It is one of the worst things you can do for soil.

Here is a link that might be useful: Building Up Soil

So greengarden, how does the wheat and corn, and other crops that are planted in soils where heavy amounts of ammonium nitrate are used as fertilizer grow since the ammonium nitrate is a poison that kills off the soil bacteria and fungi?

Dumping large amounts of organic matter into or on top of the soil so that you cannot plant for a long period of time will slowly kill the mycorrhizal fungus. It is one of the worst things you can do for soil.

How long is "a long period of time"? Years, or 6 months? How is that different than the lasagna method of building layers and letting them sit for months, then planting? We used that method once to create a new bed in our lawn; after 6 or so months, the soil was teeming with worms.

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you, just respectfully asking.

Must not have been clear .I turn the whole leaves, grass clipping & compost under nothing on top.
If I do not plant a winter crop, then there are weeds or cover crops, until just before Spring.
What I do is sheet composting according to Rodale Press.

The link below shows that some crops have a higher dependency on mycorrhizal fungus.
Carrot, beans, and leek have a very high dependency.
Grass family (corn) and non-brassica greens have a moderate dependency.
Potato, wheat, tomato, and pepper have a very weak relationship.
Brassica, beets, buckwheat, amaranth, and quinoa have no relationship at all.
Some plants such as certain trees and orchids will not even sprout without the presence of mycorrhizal fungi.

http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/cm/review/2004/amfungi/

On this Rodale site below field trials occasionally produced as much as 50% increase in yield after inoculation.

http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/node/441

I could not find a study of how long mycorrhizal fungi can survive in a starvation environment.
Not a very useful study.
But if you look in the ACRES USA magazine, you can see advertisements for mycorrhizal fungi.
They show about a 25% increase in corn (moderate dependent) yield when fields are inoculated after being knocked back by fertilization.
Rodale saw a 50% increase in yield for the more dependent crops.
Everyone will have to extrapolate for themselves what the exact effect is.
You could always spend money and re-inoculate after killing them back, but that seems awfully inefficient.

There is no direct relationship that I could find between earthworms and mycorrhizal fungi.

jolj - I think you and I are pretty much on the same page

Here is a link that might be useful: Building Up Soil

I spoke too soon. I found a study on bare soil.
"a 90 day fallow was found to decrease active hyphae by 57%,"

But this is for undisturbed soil. If the soil is disturbed to bury organic matter, I would assume almost 100% destruction of the network, with only slow growing spores remaining. With no roots to feed them, I would assume a very slow recovery.

https://www.certifiedcropadviser.org/files/certifications/certified/education/self-study/exam-pdfs/197.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: Building Up Soil

"My head is spinning."

Jenn, you still there?

Back to square one. You are digging a hole and adding kitchen scraps right? So whatever Microcosm Of Microbial Holiness that MAY be there is getting disturbed.

Sow some smother crop seeds on top. Something that will spring up quickly, choke competition and provide biomass for down the road. Or mulch, as per OP.

Seems you have a conundrum, worrying about disturbing Mike O'Rizey yet wanting to increase OM.

Any "damage" to your soil will be settled long before the arguments in this thread.

Alphonse -- thank you! I was getting confused about the later responses... are they to answer my question or someone else's???

Thanks for bringing this back to square one.

Here's what I'm starting to understand:
1. If I bury kitchen scraps or till/turn in organic materials NOW, and let it sit until November WITHOUT planting any crops NOW, this will disturb the soil food web or microbial holiness or whatever good stuff is down there.
2. Planting crops with deep roots (carrots and parsnips, I read) NOW will loosen the soil and feed the microbes.

Am I correct?

QUESTION: Can I till in lots of good stuff now AND plant the crops in the newly-amended soil?

Thank you for helping me through this!

Wow! I think some people may be getting carried away with protecting the mycorrhizal fungi network. Mother Nature is really not that fragile IMO.

Jenn, if you bury kitchen scraps NOW and let them sit 6 months (until November) I'm fairly certain that those scraps with be decomposed and not be a problem with anything you plant then. Keep the area moist for faster decomposition. I'm thinking you are not burying tons of veggie scraps, only what your family produces. We eat a lot of veggies/fruit and rarely have more than a gallon of scraps per day. Mostly less than that. When these are buried in a hole in the garden with space between them there should be no problem. What does not decompose quickly are things like onion skins, citrus peels, and avocado pits. The first 2 can be chopped up in small pieces for faster decomposition.

I'm not sure about using carrots and parsnips to loosen soil - I always thot they needed loose soil to grow straight. However if you have this from a reputable source it's certainly worth a try.

If you intend to till in uncomposted materials now, you should wait until it's decomposed before planting. If you are tilling in finished compost I think it's still recommended to wait a couple of weeks before planting.

IMO tilling is not necessary - the only time we till is when starting a new bed in our concrete-like clay soil. Then my DH tills once, I pile on whatever amendments I am using, and he tills again. After that it's trench composting between plants and/or using compost/mulch on top.

I'd suggest you try the trench composting as you suggested in your first post to see what happens to the soil. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Not too many here use trench composting so they don't realize the benefits.

"I'm not sure about using carrots and parsnips to loosen soil-"

The Holy Grail for deep "tillage" are the Japanese radishes (sorry, senior moment on the cultivar name). They go deep, then are allowed to rot.

Problems?(I haven't tried this in the OP's conditions);
Rooters need certain soil conditions to even yield-parsnips can be problematic- and to my knowledge none like high N which although not immediately available at depth of trenching, will still persist.

But apart from seed/labor/time, what's to lose? I'm not one to think practices advocated on this board can "destroy" soil.

Jenn

It is a little too hot now for carrots / parsnips / roots.
I would work in kitchen scraps, wait two weeks, and plant something heat loving like inoculated beans, okra, or sunflower. The okra and sunflower are especially deep rooted.

I'm surprised no one sent me to the FAQ page to create a new bed without tilling.

Re: sending you to the FAQ, you had a plan at the outset that struck me as divergent.
Anecdotally, I much prefer trench composting to the referenced FAQ. Such methods apparently produce results, but note how often qualifiers are used; "over time" "gradually" etc. I have seen intact newspaper at the bottom of such constructions with little or no improvement to the native soil after two years. This in a place with ample rain, freeze thaw cycles and abundant insect life.

Though you may have gotten conflicting or confusing responses, the pooling of observation is of benefit to readers such as myself.

Alphonse, thanks. I'm reading up on it. I used the lasagna method to create a new bed in our front yard, and it worked very well. We built it in late spring, and by planting time in late November all the materials were broken down and there were a bazillion worms! That area was under a large shade tree and got watered with the lawn sprinklers. This new area will be in sun all summer and will need supplemental watering to keep it moist.