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Replaced a starter and still won't start

15 years ago

Good Afternoon,

First let me apologize if this is a dup posting. I'm having trouble with my pc. Just replaced a starter on a 2002 Scott's John Deere with a Kohler 17hp. The starter spins but the gear does not raise to engage the flywheel. Is this just a defective starter or is there a simple fix to this issue.

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Comments (11)

rcbe
15 years ago
Weak/failing batteries can cause such - same with poor electrical connections (battery post to lug, ground wire to chassis, etc.). Also could be either connections at the starter solenoid or a failing solenoid itself.

Have you tried jumping it off from a known good battery (bypassing your tractor's starting circuit) - like one in your vehicle ? If it works OK then, highly likely that one of the above items is the cause.
mowtech
15 years ago
might be a stupid ? but, here goes. did you hook the battery up backwards? the starter will turn both ways. also make sure the battery has a good charge and is turning the starter fast enough to lift the drive up into the flywheel.
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Read through this before you begin. You will do best if the carb is off the engine and on a work bench or other suitable surface. I like to do the work in a large baking pan, less likely for something to roll off and get lost. Refer to the image below. I have added the item # 40.5 for the nut that secures the bowl to the carb. When you remove item 40.5 the bowl should simply pull straight off, you may need to tap the bowl lightly with a plastic screwdriver handle or similar "persuader" to break it loose. Pay attention to what you are doing, my standard advice is use a digital camera and shoot a lot of photos of the carb before you take things loose. And continue to photograph more as you remove items, this will give you something to refer to later WHEN you forget how something was. Have a sheet of paper (or a whole notepad) and write notes, draw sketches, anything to record the details. After the bowl is off, you need to pull out item # 27 to release the float. (you are taking pictures of this aren't you?) The needle valve (item # 30) should lift out of the seat when you pick up the bowl, but it may come loose, so watch it carefully. Pay close attention to the orientation of item # 31 spring clip (more pictures please). Now, I want you to look at items # 17, and 20. # 17 is the IDLE SPEED screw.....do not touch this screw, it sets the low idle RPM only and it's not necessary to mess with it during the cleaning. But # 20, the idle mixture screw, needs to be removed BUT before you remove it, you need to count the number of turns (and fraction of turns) in the CLOCKWISE direction that are required to just barely seat the screw to the bottom of the threaded hole. Write down the number on your note paper, this will be the number of turns CCW you will use as the initial setting when you assemble the carb after cleaning. After the float is off, the needle valve is out, and the idle mixture screw has been "counted" and removed you will proceed to clean the carb. Eye protection is mandatory when using spray carb cleaner, so use the proper safety goggle or face shield. Solvent proof rubber or vinyl gloves are good too. Do the cleaning outdoors or in good ventilation only. No smoking! Using spary carb cleaner (like Carb Medic, example)and the nozzle straw, spray the carb cleaner into every darn hole you see. Using a very fine piece of wire (the bare kind like used on parts tags) and poke it into all the holes to manually dislodge blockage, be careful not to break the wire off in a passage. Spray more cleaner through all the holes. If you have access to compressed air, blow out all the holes and passages. If you don't have compressed air, just let the carb dry thoroughly before reassembling. All the loose parts (bowl, mixture screw, float) need to be cleaned to remove any gunk or varnish film from them. Be careful not to bend any parts of the float where its pin goes or where the needle touches the float. After all is clean and dry, assembly is the reverse of the tear down. And don't forget to change the engine lube oil and filter before you try to run this engine again. Any gas that has appeared in the air cleaner can be mopped out with paper towels, put them outside with a weight on them so the wind won't get them, after the gas evaporates you can toss them into your OUTSIDE trash can. Smoke? Yeah, good possibility. Have the machine outdoors when you restart it. Fire is unlikely (most of the volatiles will be evaporated by then) but you may see some black specks of oil and carbon emerge from the exhaust outlet. That should clear up in 5 minutes or so. May lady luck be holdin' yer hand!
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I would Remove the spark plugs or plug and see if it spins easily and watch for raw gas shooting out in a mist? especially if I smelt raw gas (if so your carb. float maybe sticking flooding the comb. chamber and wetting the spark plugs if it is gravity feed fuel system"? that comment was meant for you the orginal poster! Did you not read it? I think you answered your own questions. I filled the gas tank before storage and now there was not gas in it? Muffler was wet? when I changed the fuel filter odd no fuel in line? I'm too lazy to look up the model you posted, does it have a fuel pump or is the gas tank above the engine? I would quess that the carb. float stuck and leaked all the gas out through the exhaust ( if the exhaust valve was open during storage? I would also check the oil for gas in it. A good sign would be it way over filled or you smell gas in the oil. IF so drain the oil and refill. Now I would go back to the carb. find out why it leaking gas? probably the float needle not seating alowing gas to seep pass. I also think the reason it wouldn't turn over was the cylinder or cylinders was full of gas causing a hydraulic seizure. I would remove the carb. bowl again (if you can reseal it without creating a leak) spray down the float and seat with carb. and any small passages you see. install the bowl, prime it and see if it will run. You may have to prime it several times till the bowl fills up with fuel. Copied and pasted from the orginal post
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johnnyv_scotts
Original Author
15 years ago
OK now I feel stupid. First thing I did was replace the battery with sa fresh one from lowes. even brought in the old one to have them match it. Well looks like the one they gave me has the post positioned differently for positive and negative and they are reversed. Can't believe I never caught that. Thanks for your insight. Unfortunately got to go back to lowes to see if I can get the right battery. There is no wiggle room with the battery cables' lengths. If I flip the battery, the cables wont's reach. Thanks again.
mownie
15 years ago
ATTABOY mowtech!
walt2002
15 years ago
"might be a stupid ? but, here goes. did you hook the battery up backwards? the starter will turn both ways. "

My thought exactly.

"Well looks like the one they gave me has the post positioned differently for positive and negative and they are reversed. Can't believe I never caught that."

Don't know about Kohler but if you do a B&S that way, it will either blow a fuse (if there is one) OR burn out the diode in the charging system. I had a guy buy an engine from me years ago and come back all worked up because charging system would not work. Turned out he had done exactly what you did, bought a new batter and "put it in just like the old one" problem was poles were reversed. I guess he thought he would put one over on me as his starter would not have worked either and he must have seen the problem.

Walt Conner
johnnyv_scotts
Original Author
15 years ago
Any chance I damaged the charging system with this error? I am still kicking myself and wondering if I really needed a new starter. The only comforting thought is that even with the old starter and the new battery, it wouldn't turn over like the new one (even if in reverse). Going out this morning for the new battery. Thanks again. You guys are the best!
davidandkasie
15 years ago
you could have hosed the charging system. hopefully it just got a fuse, but you could have fried a diode or voltage rectifier/regulator. you can ohm it out if you have a meter.
Greg Goyeneche
15 years ago
Starter should still be OK. However as Walt says, charging circuit could be damaged. BTW, lawn tractor battery is a U-1 and the reverse polarity is a U-1R.

Once you replace battery, engine should start OK. If you have (or can borrow) a decent digital multimeter, you should read about 12.5 volts across the battery non-running, and 13.5 to 14 volts with engine running (meaning battery is charging). If you don't see any difference in voltage (running or not) means charging system is damaged, and you have work in front of you.

Although I use a Beckman DMM, Harbor Freight has these cheapies which do a suprisingly good job.

Here is a link that might be useful: Harbor Freight DMM
domano68
15 years ago
hello,
I am having starting problems with my Scotts S2046. I have 12.9V at the battery but the engine is barely cranking. Sounds like a weak battery but again, I'm getting 12V at the battery. This is a continuous problem so I am wondering if I have damaged my charging circuit and if someone could tell me how to find the diode, I would certainly appreciate it.

Also, rcbe, can you describe how to do this in what you mentioned above "Have you tried jumping it off from a known good battery (bypassing your tractor's starting circuit) - like one in your vehicle?"
Thanks in advance!!!
rcbe
15 years ago
domano68 -
Set the tractor park brake. Have someone sit in the tractor's seat.Set dash controls for normal engine start, except do not turn ignition key all the way to "start".

Confirm that your tractor's battery circuit has the positive (+) lead supplying power to the starter and the negative (-) going to the frame.

Using a set of jumper cables:
Â Connect positive (+) cable to positive post (+) of
your tractorÂs starter.
Â Connect the other end of the cable to the (positive
+) post of the jumper battery.
Â Connect the second cable (negative Â) to the other
post of the jumper battery.
Â Momentarily, make the final connection on the engine block of your tractor. Touch to an unpainted part to assure a good connection. Do not keep contact for more than 3 seconds.

The starter should energize and attempt to crank the engine.
walt2002
15 years ago
"I am having starting problems with my Scotts S2046."

That may mean something to some people here but to get help with an engine problem, you should post the engine make and model number.

Walt Conner

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