Greg, you have been TREMENDOUSLY helpful. I read Home Deport's Water Gardens 1-2-3 which helped a bit, but the size feature that I am going for enters a weird zone... 330 gallons is bigger than a small pre-formed one, but isn't as big as the big things. Here is my question, I assume that my pump should be over 350 GPH, but not more than 1000 GPH? I assume that you can't pump through the entire water supply more than a few times an hour or you'll start to create suction for anything in there. Assuming I want my arches of water to be 1.6 ft (0.5m), I need a velocity of 3 m/s. Given a 1/4" stream, that's 90 GPH/stream, given a 1/8" stream, that's 22.5 GPH. 1/4" valves seems reality, and if I want 8 of them, that's 720 GPH, so a 700 or 750 GPH pump seems like the right call (a little smaller means a little tighter of water, seems better than overshooting which will drain the water). I found a Pondmaster 700 GPH pump with a filter from Pondmaster for $130. Will that work, or am I going to regret not adding a skimmer? The wood frame to give the pond a rigid shape looks to be $100, the pump $100, and the liner/underlayment another $50 or so?!? Adding a skimmer increases the construction work and doubles the budget... doesn't mean that I shouldn't do it, just want to know if I should. My gut says I'll regret NOT having the skimmer. If I add the skimmer, I assume I replace my single GFCI outlet with a bigger box with two outlets before adding light. I assume that I just drop the UV light in the skimmer? I should be able to run 1/2" tubing into my edge support, then angle some 1/4" barbs @ 45 degrees with a compression T-connection to get my streams. When I replace the driveway, I'll bring a pipe of water connected to a Garden spitter so I can fill the pond if it drops (planning to run a pipe for the irrigation system anyways). The Atlantic Water Gardens PS4000 Skimmer with a 6" door seems to run $150 and looks like it won't dominate my water garden, is that sufficient to capture leaves? Do I need something fancier? Should I go with a skimmer AND the PondMaster Filter (with a T-connect like my pool has for a skimmer + bottom drain) to get crap off the top AND bottom? Thank you so much! Regarding lighting, my plan was to run a low voltage system in the area, including some pond lights, all LED Not only do I not need to replace bulbs, but the LED is energy efficient, and with lower wattage should allow a smaller transformer, making up for any cost premium on the lights. Looks like 2010 is the year of LED lights, given the changeover in the big box stores for Christmas lights and now garden lights. Thank you for all your help. Here is a link that might be useful: Sears Entry for 700 GPH Pondmaster with Filter

QUOTE;"I don't want any chlorine in my water at all. The chlorine is there to kill bacteria, but once it gets to my house the bacteria is not going to become zombie" WRONG- Once the water enters your structure it not only can, it almost certainly will become what you call "zombie Bacteria". If you don't believe it run a search on "Bio Film" In its worst case scenario Bio-film is visible as a clear gelatinous mass that forms inside pipes where the water remains static for periods of 20 to 390 days or more, such as line to outside hose bibbs during winter months, lines to seldom used 1/2 bath or guest room bath facilities, or automatic feed lines to HVAC equipment. Under laboratory test conditions biofilm forms the quickest in virgin copper pipes, followed quickly by PEX tubing and last by CPVC, however as copper pipes age they form a greenish layer on the interior of the pipe which is copper sulfate. Copper Sulphate is one of the best anti-bacterial agents known to man so generally by the time bio-film would begin developing in a copper system, the copper itself has created a small level of anti-bacterial protection. In fact, per ASTM standard PEX and CPVC systems should be sanitized once a year and in any structure that has stood un-occupied for a period of 90 days or more they should have the entire potable waster supply sanitized before use. Taking this discussion to the next level, bio-film is the exact reason why the FDA requires all bottled water to have a shelf life date printed on the container. Now in regards to your question, is a reduction to 8gpm too much? Absolutely too much. The codes give us a table of all fixtures in the house and what the minimum allowable flow rate to the fixture is. Without having a complete list of all fixtures in your house it is impossible to say what your load demand is, but just for the sake of argument a Tub or shower is 3gpm (even though code requires us to install shower heads rated at 2.5gpm) and an outside hose bib is 5gpm so just a tub and an outside hose bibb would consume the entire 8gpm.

I figure this is a topic that I would like to chime in on. Salt pools in the US started becoming popular like Kelly said about 10 years ago. I as a pool builder am leary of any new technology that has not ben thouroghly tested. Even though I do install the systems when asked to I still give the pros and cons of using these systems. This all being said I have seen a trend over the past few years. For every salt system that I install I am removing 2 of the systems on other pools. Why is this you ask. In most cases it in the stone around the pool being washed away. And others are from equipment failures caused by the salt. Many will argue on here that salt is not corrosive and that bonding of a pool will solve these problems. I disagree. I build my pools properly and when I continue to have the same problems on salt pools that I do not have on Regular erosion feeder systems. I have to question what is the problem. And the common factor is the salt systems. Nothing else. As far as Ozone systems. this is another system that I do not believe in. I think it is a big waste of money. Just another gimic for you to buy to put on your pool. Now even though I do not see the problems with this system that you see with salt I do not see the benefit of using them. This all leads back to my personal opinion that they have been using chlorine for well over 100 years on pools and never have seen the service issues that we see today with all the different type of chorination and augmentations sytems that are installed now days. So if it ain't broke don't fix it. Good luck on the pool build.

If the chlorine is adequate, sure. This sounds like a system that isn't controlled very well though, so hard to tell. The "rusty" staining could be from the upset conditions or it could also be something else entirely. sabol68 - Have you had a water test done? Do you have the quarterly reports from your city water system? They may be available online.