Well, the website is down at this time, so I cannot post a link.

The specs are: a ClearSpan EZ-Grow portable greenhouse. Slip-together fittings and frames are 17-gauge 1.315 inch OD galvanized structural steel with a rip-stop poly cover. It has a man size door and a large back door which roll up and zipper down. Does this help for a visual?

Hold that thought Ellen, I am working on a term paper until tomorrow. I'm surpirsed no one has piped up yet.

Also check out rebar and poly pipe hoophouses but imagine rows of them using 10 foot lengths and shade cloth or row covering.

You don't need the height of a conventional greenhouse for flats, also the lower profile will mean less problems in high winds.

You could use the plastic snow fence around the things to slow the wind down somewhat.

I have the same problem, it is mild enough to put the flats outside but in a heavy rainstorm the rain washes all the dirt out of the cells and you have flats and flats of plants and bare roots.

As you are looking at FarmTek check out the "shade houses and materials" section

weebus, I wish I was still doing term papers! Then I would have my horticulture degree and would know more than I do now.

Chris, what you are describing is exactly what I orignially had in mind before checking into the kit houses. I envisioned, basically, a dwarf hoop house, only a few feet tall, shaded in parts for new flats brought outside, and gradually shading less for more established ones. However, I am not finding such a unit as a kit. What ones I have found look more like saran wrap wrapped around the flats. I am terrified of losing my plants to frost. Wouldnt such a unit require the flats to be really close to the ground? And wouldnt that run more of a risk of frost damage, being closer to the ground that is?

Also, another issue with this is accessibility to the flats. I envision a long row of this "dwarf hoop house" (what is the correct term?), with openings at both ends. Okay, how do I access my flats for watering and maintenance?

Also, my husband will be building me some much more durable "benches", which will actally be benches on wheels. I want these benches to be double shelved, for shade plants on the bottom, or potted bulbs, whatever I want, and the top shelf for sun plants. I want these benches to be within reach, not having to stoop down to reach for the plants. The type of hoop house I am envisioning, these shelving units will have to be much closer to the ground. Or..........am I wrong? How far off the ground is a safe distance? By "safe" I mean, from off and on April frost, can an unheated unit protect me?

Also, I am a bit confused about something. I grow my plants indoors, then take them out for hardening. Okay, I protect these plants in a unit we devise next spring. Will these plants need to be further hardened off before planting out? I mean, after spending some time in my "glorified cold frame", wouldnt I still need to expose them to the elements out of the cold frame/hoop house for some time before they are ready?

I realize that my complete ignorance on this subject is showing here, and I do thank you for taking me seriously. I know a lot about growing seeds, but have very little actual greenhouse experience or knowledge. I am also lacking building knowledge (so is my husband) and it seems that every buddy he has who is skilled in carpentry is clueless about greenhouse materials. Which.........has led me to the interest in the kit houses.

Sorry to bombard with questions.......I have many......

Chris, FarmTek is shipping me their complete catalog of supplies today. I will look for what you are describing.

I think this is the one you are talking about. In MO the framing will not hold up under strong winds. It does not have any center rafters. It would not be able to handle any snow load at all even though in the picture they show snow. Since you intend to have a greenhouse someday I think you should buy a good frame now and you will have it in later years.
Copy and paste.
http://www.farmtek.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10001&productId=10386&langId=-1&division=FarmTek&parent_category_rn=11706&top_category=&breadcrumb_trail=Greenhouses+%26+Accessories%7CEZ-Grow+Greenhouses&breadcrumb_categoryIds=11701%7C11706&isDoc=

The one in the link below has framing that is 4ft on center rafters. You just buy the plastic and cover it yourself. In the future you add the second layer and fan and blower to insulate it. You use wood framing for the end walls and cover it also. Or you could buy the polycarbonate roll sheeting. Add a heater some exhaust fans and you have a very good greenhouse.
http://www.farmtek.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10001&productId=31340&langId=-1&division=FarmTek&pageId=ItemDetail&parent_category_rn=&top_category=&breadcrumb_trail=Cold+Frames+%26+High+Tunnels&breadcrumb_categoryIds=23202&isDoc=
When you get the catalog you may something else.

Here is a link that might be useful: Greenhouse frame

A really stupid question, how much space do you have?

If you have enough then you can set up temporary structures to do the things you want as you want.

As to building something that you need to harden off plants in that you eventually would like to turn into a greenhouse, do both. When you get a greenhouse, then you will need an area to harden off your plants.

A couple of years ago I asked a question on another forum about hardeneng off, and got told professional growers dont do it. If you spend 3 weeks exposing your plants to the real world they spend 3 weeks adapting. When someone buys your plant and sticks it in the ground the plant takes another 3 weeks suffering from transplant shock and adjusting.

Or maybe someone can tell me otherwise.... :)

Well, this professional grower most certainly does do it. You can harden a plant off in many ways, but they must be hardened. Too much to lose to risk not doing it.

I still havent received my new catalog, cactusfreak, your links are great, and yes, your first link is exactly the model I was looking at. I was suspicious of the snow in the background!

Okay, be streight with me. The framing for your recommended model is just under $350. If I purchase that exact model right there, how much will it cost me to cover with plastic? Where should I buy the plastic? How much more expense is involved? I have a budget of $2000 this year, of which $500 is already spent on seeds. I need to reserve another $300 for ProMix and other supplies and about another $300 for more seed. This leaves me with about $900. I do not have expenses such as heating, cooling, and watering, because I do my growing indoors (lucky me, right?). Cactusfreak, I buy the model you are recommending, then what I will actually have for the year 2006 is more like an unfinished greenhouse, correct? This GH will need a permanant location, with gravel floor, and no foundation wall? What will it do for frost protection, an unheated house that is?

We have a very large, very dilapitated shed on our property, with a foundation wall and gravel floor, that will be demolished and my greenhouse will be built. This shed is 30 x 72 feet! I am intimidated by maintaining a greenhouse so large. It is time that I learned how to grow in a GH on a smaller scale, as we plan to have the large house built in about 3 years. It isnt the cost that scares me about building this GH, because we are saving for it already, and because I will always grow my own plants and grow for others as well. I will always need the GH. But there is so much I need to familiarize myself with. You can only read so many books, but without hands on experience, it is just information that gets lost.

In the meanwhile, I have 2 acres of land, about 2/3 of an acre is a gravel parking lot surrounding this old shed. I have the space to build a hoophouse such as the one in Cactusfreak's link.

Chris, I too asked a question not too long ago about hardening off in a greenhouse in the Pro forum, and I was not given too many replies on it. I remember one reply was that they actually needed to provide more shade in the house as the plants were getting too much sunlight. However, I dont remember any answers on the issue of exposure to cold temps, and wind. I asked a local small scale grower about it, and he says he has three different houses, one of which is not heated for hardening off. However, I am confused on how the plants get true exposure to the elements such as wind and direct sun. The greenhouse that I worked at for a short time years ago, we never moved any plants outside, and sold the plants from right inside the houses. Sure wish I could go back in time and ask more questions!

Ellen, you have been given some great advice by these guys. I would have to go with Cactusfreak. You could cover it in plastic early in the season and if you wanted to, in the summer, throw some shade cloth on it. I researched that idea and eventually decided to go ahead and get the greenhouse. I still may buy a frame like this one and use it as a cold frame/shade house.

As far as hardening off plants, there are several ways to do it, and much of it depends on the type of plant, and why you are hardening them off.

This frame will help facilitate the process. You can put a shade cloth on over the plastic to protect the seedlings from the sun. Just throw it up there and remove it for however long you would like until you have extended their sunlight time to a full day. So instead of moving the trays in and out, you would just pull the shade cloth, and then throw it back over when they have had enough.

Also, we always try to start their hardening off (sunlight) on an overcast day or even a rainy day. If you start on a bright sunny day, you will definitely see burn.

You don't have to learn everything at once. If you want to, come everyday asking questions.

Thank you weebus. Can you refresh my memory here, it has been a while since I have gone to a plastic covered hoop house style greenhouse; the only type house I have experience in growing in. We grew our plants from seedling stage on out into the same house. I cannot recall off the top of my head, but would it be safe to assume that those houses had a shade cloth over them from day one of the seedling stage? And if so, would it be a darker shade cloth than for plants at a further growth stage? I will someday grow my plants in a heated house, so this is good information for me to plan for. I mean, please excuse my ignorance on this, would a grower reserve a part of their house for seedlings and have that part covered with more shade than the rest? That would make sense........though it is totally backwards from my grow light set up, where I have the plants almost touching the lights at all times!

Okay, to simplify the hardening off issue.........gradually increasing the sun exposure from the shade cloth is the same thing as exposing plants to full sun? I mean, the intensity of the light coming through a non-shade-covered house is the same as the intensity of the bare sunlight exposure on my plants on benches outside? And there is no need for coldframe/greenhouse grown plants to actually "sit outside" for some time before planting out???

Oh, I do hope I am making sense here......I swear I am not an idiot, just have so many tiny detailed questions.

The picture of the cold frame skeleton is jumping out to me "buy me buy me!", because it just looks soooo easy, and the price is fantastic. I am not finding exact height deminsions of these cold frames, so my next question becomes, what is the difference in these cold frames than the skeleton of a regular greenhouse? Can these cold frames be convereted to a heated house? Where can I get information about what kind of temperature protection I can expect from this type of unit?

Okay, I have exceeded the number of questions I should ask in one post! Sorry to be so eager, I just know to ask lots of questions while you have someones attention.

Have you checked out the large cold frame kit at Gardeners Supply?

http://www.gardeners.com/Shopping/sell.asp?ProdGroupID=11210&DeptPGID=13596&lstCategory=0&RecGroupNum=1

On sale for $479 for the 12 ft x 24 ft

I know what the ending to this story will be!!!

(Twelve months later........)

"Um, well I got the frame, and I covered it and put in end walls, and a small heater and a cheap fan and I sort have got a great greenhouse sort of and now I have started so many seeds in it I need room for 1200 flats that I can put outside to harden off"

Scary but true!!!!!

The reason I asked how much space do you have is because if you have an acreage then probably you live in an area where you can get away with building an "ugly" structure for a month or so in the spring to do just what you want.

Now you add you have a large delapidated shed, GREAT!!! I bet the roof is trashed but the side walls and maybe the rafters are sort of OK. Rip the roofing off and cover it with poly. So what if the wood rots in a year or so, you are planning to demolish it anyway!

I restored an old chicken shed to its former glory, however it sort of had a "transparent" sort of look to it......

This pic is a year old. What happened to it, and what it looks like now will be a subject of another thread in a week or so when it is finally skinned in 4 year poly.

http://www.stormlakeonline.com/user3316/g4.jpg

Just imagine the tatty old chicken shed to the right actually went all the way to the tree on the left, if you get my meaning. ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:306399}}

Chris, you have done a great job with that old shed. However, at this time we are not ready to demolish our old shed. It is still holding up fine for the storage we use it for. When the time comes to tear it down, we will also have to build a new smaller shed for what we do store in it. I doubt the walls that exist are anything worth salvaging.

Chris, in your prediction in your last response, are you saying such a thing could happen with the cold frame/hoophouse that I was describing? Or are you referring to the link posted by slaphead? The unit I am now interested in is the naked coldframe in the bottom of the post from cactusfreak. This isnt one of those flimsy looking setups, this is an actual cold frame skeleton. If you are predicting that I could have serious wind damage, then how do owners of hoophouses prevent such damage? I have seen hoophouses that have been standing for years.

Does anyone agree that such a cold frame would not hold up? And what is the difference in this coldframe sold by FarmTek than other coldframes/hoophouses? Is it something in the hoop construction? I dont understand what would be so unreliable about it and certainly need to know.

I really do appreciate your responses, you are helping me more than you know. Though, I am still bogged with questions........

Laughing,

My prediction was that you will be able to turn that frame into a nice functioning greenhouse and will be using it to start even more seeds than you do already. That will then mean you need even more space to put out the flats!

I can't find where I said that frame would be flimsy, I think it will be a great basis for your structure. If the base is well secured and the poly is on tight and secure they withstand a lot of bad weather. Most of the nurseries around here are those type of buildings. The end walls contain all the fans, doors and vents.

The next one I put up will be a hoophouse.

A real bonus for your project is that shipping from the company we mentioned is very reasonable. Check the "estimate shipping" thingy. for the 10x24 it says $79.29 to Springfield 65806 as an example.

A frame like that is a good start. Then you need a covering and end walls and fasteners.

If nothing else we could start a thread on the design and construction of a, let us say, 10x24 ft hoophouse with minimal climate control and as cost effective as possible.

I have never built one but I have been reading about them for years.

Slightly off topic, depending on what type of poly film you use it is sent either normal carrier (Fedex, UPS etc) or it is shipped by truck (expensive) Some film is fan folded so the roll is a reasonable dimension for UPS, some stuff is just folded in half so the package is oversized for UPS.

If you do by a frame consider buying the film at the same time so you pay less total freight.

Hey Chris! Now I see why I misunderstood your response! When I read "I sort of got a great greenhouse......." I guess I was thinking that you were thinking the suggested GH/coldframe would not hold up well for me. Though, rereading it now, I feel stupid for misunderstanding that! I think what you meant was that I would be so impressed with such a unit that I would actually use it as a greenhouse, and then will need another whole entire set up for hardening off! Do I understand you better now? Okay, I change what I said earlier.......I am an idiot! :) It isnt the first time that I misinterpreted a response!

Chris, this very basic information you are giving is priceless for me, as I have lots of very basic questions that simply are not answered in books. I have several books about building/managing GH's and GH management, yet none of them answer the individual questions that I have, and they are a bit advanced for a building illiterate like me! I think I need a "Greenhouses For Dummies" book.

Thanks for the big tip on buying polyfilm. Now, I thought I read before that this film would be available at places such as Lowes or Home Depot. Am I wrong about that?

Chris, everyone, I think I have made a decision about what I would like to do. I think I want to make a two-year project out of this, and build two GH's, side by side, one functioning as a greenhouse and one as a cold frame. One house will be equipped with heating, fans, and the other not. So now, more questions arise. I do hope I get some responses, because it is all I can think about these past few days!

New questions:

1. If I am wanting to have two houses side by side, connected, will they actually be connected or will the just be right next to each other?

2. I desire to have the round style hoophouses, yet, if I want connected houses, shouldnt I consider purchasing the streight sided, rounded top hoop house?

3. Is there are certain height recommendation for heating a greenhouse? The cold frames are 8 feet tall........could they still be set up to function as a greenhouse? I desire my "side by side" houses to be identical in appearance.

4. Does a cold frame need a foundation?

5. If I spend $350 for the cold frame skeleton, what other immediate expenses will I have (remember, this is for a cold frame, not a greenhouse)?

6. Does a cold frame require any heating at all?

7. Does a cold frame require fans? I have seen GHs before that have several regular box fans hanging from the rafters!

8. Can I get a list of the most basic building materials that will be required for my cold frame, such as attatching the poly, attatching the end walls to the skeleton, etc. I mean, talk to me though as if you were talking to a 10 year old. I need to understand what everything is, where to find it, and what to do with it. I wish to take this list to the hardware store, Lowes, Home Depot,whereever, and familiarize myself with these items. I also have this master catalog from FarmTek to help me.

I am really tired of putting off not making the decision to build a greehouse simply because I am overwhelmed with the equipment involved. Gotta start somewhere, right?

OK, My prediction came true, a year early!!!

Yeah, I looked at the weather stats for Southen MO and you guys get a really easy life down there, Sure you get frost at nights in march, but not the stupid stuff we have here. Example for here, March 1st Normal High 36, Normal Low 18, Normal average 27.

Springfield (as an example of MO weather) March 1st, Normal High 52, Normal Low 31, Normal Average 42.

You have to fight frost in your coldframe, but it is not impossible.

Now you are going to build a greenhouse AND a cold frame, I knew it!
Give us all a couple of days to discuss a master plan, it is not every day that we get to design a project like this from the very start.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/strucs/msg1017315418343.html?4
This is a thread on exactly the same subject, "Advice for Building Quonset Greenhouse?"

To answer some of the non-numbered questions.

"I thought I read before that this film would be available at places such as Lowes or Home Depot" It may be in your area as a greenhouse there is not a stupid idea and is common. Make sure it is UV resistant stuff, the construction poly lasts about 6 months then it turns into a papery substance you can poke your finger through.Greenhouse grade 4 year stuff costs at least 9 cents a sqft and up.

Numbered questions.....
1. If I am wanting to have two houses side by side, connected, will they actually be connected or will the just be right next to each other?
*If you put them in an "M" shape next to each other watch out for where the snow and rain and dead leaves will go in the "V" of the "M" You could connect them lengthways and have a 48 foot house with a solid wall in the middle. as you look from the south let us say the left half is the cold frame and the right half is the greenhouse.

2. I desire to have the round style hoophouses, yet, if I want connected houses, shouldnt I consider purchasing the streight sided, rounded top hoop house?
*If you connect them side by side you have that "V" in the middle, and putting the plastic on will be a harder job

3. Is there are certain height recommendation for heating a greenhouse? The cold frames are 8 feet tall........could they still be set up to function as a greenhouse? I desire my "side by side" houses to be identical in appearance.
*The Harbour freight one is just over 6 foot I think, 8ft is not too low by any means.

4. Does a cold frame need a foundation?
*Yes, but not a foundation like a concrete slab or foundations poured to 4 ft deep. You need a frame around the base that is well secured to the ground. Then you need to secure your hoophouse to that.

5. If I spend $350 for the cold frame skeleton, what other immediate expenses will I have (remember, this is for a cold frame, not a greenhouse)?
   *Foundations and base, securing hardware, Covering, fasteners for the covering, end walls, a door and some venting system. Cooling a coldframe is just as difficult as cooling a professional heated greenhouse.

6. Does a cold frame require any heating at all?
*By definition (of some) a "coldframe" is a "greenhouse" that is not heated. Just like you see the term "Solar Greenhouse" well the solar greenhouse tends to use things like water and rocks to store the heat during the day and release it at night. All structures that let light in are "solar" No you don't need heat, but what you do need is a way to protect your crop from low temperatures that will kill them. In another english speaking country the terms "coldframe" and "greenhouse" are actually describe the structure better. A coldframe is one of those things you build on the ground that is about 6 inches high at the front and a foot high at the back and you put old windows over it. Also you can bury electric heating cables in the dirt, but it is still a cold FRAME. A greenHOUSE is something you can climb inside whether it is heated or not. What we call a coldframe here is actually an unheated greenhouse.

7. Does a cold frame require fans? I have seen GHs before that have several regular box fans hanging from the rafters!
*Yeah! confusion time, An American "Coldframe" is an unheated greenhouse and you are going to need ventilation during a sunny day (I did not say hot, as hot and sunny are not the same in a greenhouse!) You may have seen fans blowing AT the plants, not just moving air around. That is part of the hardening off process, exposing the plants to artificial wind, and yes I have found that helps a great deal.

8. Can I get a list of the most basic building materials that will be required for my cold frame, such as attatching the poly, attatching the end walls to the skeleton, etc. I mean, talk to me though as if you were talking to a 10 year old. I need to understand what everything is, where to find it, and what to do with it. I wish to take this list to the hardware store, Lowes, Home Depot,whereever, and familiarize myself with these items. I also have this master catalog from FarmTek to help me.
*The refined master list is something everyone can help with and if we keep it generic then it should go into the FAQ of this site as "How to build a cheap and functional GARDENWEB Hoophouse"

P.S I got your E, will reply as soon as my sore fingers heal a bit. Typing with just two of them is a real strain! :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Advice for Building Quonset Greenhouse?

Oh and I do have a couple of hoophouses that I use in spring and fall...

However you may find them in an unusual location. This picture was last November, at night and the light was a 500w halogen shop light on the floor just so I could take the picture.

Tomatoes in a coldframe in a coldframe.... http://www.stormlakeonline.com/user3316/g5.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:305121}}

Oh Chris, bless you! What on earth happened to your fingers??

It is difficult for me anymore to reveal my inxperience and lack of knowledge on certain subjects, then ask for basic information here on gardenweb in certain forums, because it seems some folks are quick to say "read a book" and not take the time for me. Because, I own and have read zillions of books, yet, I am not finding basic, immediate answers to simple questions in them. When I think back on when I was learning to grow from seed, some information came from books, internet, and very little greenhouse experience. About 80% of what I was taught came from garden message boards, from people who are passionate about what they do and passionate to help others.

All of you "experts",thank you so much for taking me and everyone else seriously!

I always thought that a "cold frame" was one of those little flat boxes made out of recycled windows, as you described. That is why when I seen weebus referring to someone's GH as actually a "glorified cold frame", that title jumped out at me. As it turns out, a unit that will do exactly what I want it to do is not an odd thing to request, as I originally thought. For most people, growing tens of thousands of plants inside their home is just plain crazy (my husband agrees!).

I have decided to build the two houses for two reasons. #1 it IS plain crazy to try to grow that many plants and it is time that I learned to move it outside. Also, I need to accept that my 22 month old twins will end up moving into their bedrooms one of these days that I am using to grow all these plants! :)
#2 reason is becuase I really need some GH experience on a small scale before we tear down that old shed and build a much larger one. I think just the experience of building the cold frame will teach me a lot for building the next hoop house next year.

And, apparently it is better NOT to join the houses? I guess I am picturing all those side by side commercial greenhouses and assuming that it is more convenient, possibly saves money in construction and heating. It is no problem to not join the houses.

I need to try to go back to sleep before posting more questions. I have been trying to research online, but I am having tons of problems with both Internet Explorer and Mozilla not letting me online. I was, however, able to explore the entire Greenhouse forum on gardenweb! I have three pages of notes in front of me for things to research!

Chris, you know I love ya! I appreciate your time (and pain!) more than you know!

I built my greenhouse without the help of the internet or GW or anyone else. I went to the library and checked out books. I bought what books I could afford. I sent off for catalogs. I went to flower shows where I saw one or two greenhouse vendors. I bought my first greenhouse at a flower show. I never knew anyone with a greenhouse. And everyone I knew knew nothing about them. I would go to nurseries and look and study the equipment. I had everything planned out for 2 or 3 years before I bought my big one. We got internet service only a few months before I ordered all my equipment. I had already done the heating calculations from books and then I found the calculations on the internet. I slept, ate and dreamed greenhouses for years. I actually slept with the books beside my bed. Then when we got internet service I went to town gathering information. Each site had a different opinion on different things. I just had to judge for myself what would be best. The greenhouse installer and the company tried to talk me into smaller exhaust fans, mainly because the larger ones I had ordered wouldn't fit without cutting into the greenhouse frame. I got smaller fans but more of them(3 instead of 2) to get extra airflow. They all said it was overkill. Well it wasn't. I knew how hot it got here and had been in enough commercial greenhouses to know more is better.
There are certain things you can't learn from books. But there are times when you just have to use common sense. Each person's situation is different and we all grow different things. There is not always a pat answer for a question. What works for one does not work for the other.
So a lot of times I have wanted to say 'read a book'. I don't put it in those words but I do sugguest the books I have read.
I have a friend who will not under any circumstances tell you where she bought a certain plant. She tells you straight out. She did the research, spent hours on the internet looking for the right plant at the right price. And if you want one you can buy it from her and pay her for that information. I am beginning to see what she means.
I don't mind answering questions on GW. I sometimes ask a question myself. But when the same question is asked day after day it can be disconcerning. When the GW rules plainly state to do a search on GW to see if that question has been asked before.
You can ask a question but more than likely you will get more than one answer because we each have our own opinions.
So don't take it the wrong way when someone says 'read a book'. Most of us have done that and spent hours reading books and the internet and probally feel others should learn the same way.

cactusfreak,

I guess I need to explain furthur my comment about "reading a book". First off, I am no way in the world opposed to reading. I am an avid reader, next to gardening it is my number one passion in life. Right in front of me, I have a pile of greenhouse books, just to name a few 'The Commercial Greenhouse' James W. Boodley, 'Growing Profits' Michael and Linda Harlan,'Secrets to a Successful Greenhouse and Business' T.M.Taylor, and I have many many others. You see, I admit that I have zero building experience and zero knowledge when it comes to building ANYTHING. This is absolutely not uncommon for most women my age. I have read and reread these books a zillion times. However, most of the information I have absorbed over the years has been the business aspect of it, information on growing a better product. When it comes to the actual greenhouse construction, I am at a complete loss. I have all these books loaded with designs and plans.....yet, the information just doesnt stick with me. I dont know what the building materials are, it is as foreign to me as learning what the parts are in my car, and I dont mean the main parts, I mean all the little bits and pieces that hold everything together. For all these years, when it come to the actual building of a greenhouse, the plan was to pay to have it constructed. Though I NEED a greenhouse, I dont NEED it right now. I have another method of growing my plants, indoors, and using lights, and I do it very satisfactorily. What I NEED is a protected structure for hardening off. And that is why I started this post.

I admit to being hesitant to buying more books at this point because, I already have so many in front of me that are not answering the basic questions that I have. In my growroom, I have a huge bookshelf that houses over 85 different gardening books that I have purchased since 1993. I have a whole shelf section of catalogs that I have bought over the years. I have read them so many times, that I have memorized what books have what photos, information, etc. At this point, I rarely even go through them anymore, because I have moved beyond basic gardening information. My interests now are in the professional aspects of gardening. And even so, when I need basic information about something, I refer to my books, and could literally spend hours rereading and trying to find the answer, and most of the time the book doesnt have the answer. So, where do I turn? To the internet. And honestly, I turn the internet first anymore. Am I supposed to feel shame for that?! I bet you could ask 100 people right now where they turn first for information,and they will admit to it just the same. What is the shame in that?

Why would I want to go and purchase yet another greenhouse book that may or may not answer questions that I have?

You know, for the past 12 years of my life, I have researched and studied horticulture. I am a student, but on the "snails pace". I will never get my degree. But to be honest, almost everything that I have learned to get me to where I am now has been through self teaching. I did not have the internet all those years, I had books, trial and error, a lot of creativity, trying new things. When it came to the time where I wanted to learn to grow from seed, I bought books, and I tried all different kinds of techniques. Some things worked, some didnt. I would get frustrated, because I could not understand why one simple little thing did not work out. And then, I joined a message board back in 1996 for a paid membership gardening club.........I will have zero shame for admitting what a wealth of information I have since joining this and other clubs. I could post a simple, yet frustrating for me, delimma that I could not understand what I was doing wrong. And just like that, someone, or many of someones, would reply with a suggestion, and just like that, my problem was solved. Or, at least I had more "real life" things to try. And over the years, little bits of this and that tips that I got from others has got me to where I am now. From people who just want to help others, have been through what I was going through. what on earth is so wrong with that?

It is hard for me to imagine why a person would devote so much of their time on a website such as gardenweb if their true feeling is that we all should learn everything the hard way. Why would a person be here to help? I dont understand the concept of "hoarding information" just because someone else had to spend hours and years learning everything the hard way. We all have spent our hours and years learning something, and we all have something to share. I think back on all my years of learning cooking, yet another huge part of what makes me the person I am today. I started studying/researching cooking techniques and recipes in 1992, when I became a mom and housewife. I wanted to be a great cook. I bought hundreds (and hundreds) of books, recipes, magazines. I joined cooking clubs. I think of all the days that we had frozen pizza or leftovers (again) because a certain recipe did not work, or didnt taste well enough to eat. Some recipes, it has taken all these years to finally master. I am very proud of my accomplishments and hard work. And, if someone asks me for a recipe for something in particular or a basic technique suggestion, I dont think to myself "oh well they should have to learn it all by themselves, just as I did". They are not wanting to learn EVERYTHING, they just want to make this particular recipe. And I always VERY EAGERLY share my information with them. And it doesnt bother me that it wasnt so easy for me as it will be for them. Why? Because I have already moved beyond that particular recipe or cooking technique. I am already working on something else of interest to me. What kind of person would I be to other people if I said to them "oh, go buy a book". There are jillions of cooking books out there! Which one has just the right recipe? Which one will work for me and which one wont? Yes, I still have to try lots of differnt recipes to find the one that works for me, but I DO NOT see what is so wrong with, when you find something that works for you, to simply ask for the recipe?

We all have something to offer to other people, we all have interests and skills in other things. My nephew is a mechanic, my brother in law is an electrician. My other brother is a carpenter. My sister is talented with hairstyling. And so on and so on. What is so wrong with referring to each other for suggestions? I personally think that that is what makes the world go round.

I have spent the past few days going through every single entry in this forum, reading them and reading them again. I havent seen where many posts have been "repeated", and certainly not as badly as in other forums. In the annuals forum, there must have been 20 different requests for how to deadhead wave petunias this year. Yet, if you read each post more closely, you will see that each person was wanting something different. Sometimes, the question is more detailed than what it seems. I really dont see where my post was something that has been asked before. I originally wanted some suggestions for a shelter for housing my hardening off plants. Since then, and with the help of a few folks here, I have learned that it would be more worth my time and money to go ahead and learn the basics of how to construct a cold frame. I have jillions of questions. I do look through my books, constantly. Most times, I get that twinge of "this is to overwhelming for me" and I start to dismiss it, but I dont. I keep looking, keep trying.

Cactusfreak, I wish you knew me better and knew just how much time I have devoted in my life to reading. I have practically rewritten many books from the library that I could not afford to buy. But I am at a point where I already have a lot of books on greenhouse building that are just not helping me. Why? Becuase I am a construction idiot! However, I am a hands-on fast learner. I have all these books, highlighting things that I dont understand, and I try to find the particular items in catalogs, online, etc, and even if I do find it, I dont know what to do with it. These books are very detailed instructions for wooden framed houses, or with glass coverings, etc, that do not apply to me. When it comes to the actual hoop houses, the information is so vague. They dont list the "parts and piecies", to where it makes me feel that they just assume that anyone could build such a structure. I am not finding the information I need.

Cactusfreak, I respect you immensly on this forum. I am upset with myself that I somehow made you feel that I was dissing yours and others years of research. I never meant to. I admitted to being a construction idiot, in hopes of getting some basic information that, very simply, I just cant find. Clearly, you feel that this is not the place to ask those questions, that I need to spend more years and more money on books to find those answers. When it could be so simple to get suggestions, here, from those who have been in my shoes.

Ok, now that you've finally made yourself clear. Here is a 'Parts and peices' list and how to.
This is only one of thousands I found by typing in 'How to build a cold frame'.
You will get thousands more by typing in Hoop house.
All you had to do was ask.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to build a cold frame.

cactusfreak, I am trying really hard to accept responsibility for rubbing you the wrong way........I dont understand.........you say all I had to do was ask, well I was asking questions! What did I say that was so wrong? I mean, you implied several things about my post #1) that I didnt do a search and posted something that had been repeated several times, and even felt the need to write what the rules are to gardenweb. I DID do a search, but didnt find anything in my request that had been repeated. I really and truly felt that my inquiry was unique. You made me feel that I was downgrading the importance of reading and researching. And you made me feel that asking for simple information was somehow "wrong" and that I should do all the hard work myself. Yet.........others have asked simple basic questions,and have not gotten any 3rd degree for it........I dont understand.......I want to apologize, but I dont understand what I did so wrong. The way you responded to me two posts ago made me feel compelled to kinda "defend" myself, or at least to explain myself further, because I thought I had offended you somehow. I was honest about my lack of construction intelligence, and was honest in saying that buying one more book was not going to help with that. I posted my question, as with any other forum, and felt that if someone didnt feel obliged to reply, then they wouldnt.

I dont get it at all.......I havent seen where you have given any other person at all a hard time. So I must have brought this on myself. I must be a bigger idiot than I thought...........

I do appreciate your time in posting me a link for hoophouses,even though you were clearly aggravated with me, and as soon as my browsers start working right again, I will search them. This is new for me, because I havent allowed myself to delve into this much because I still felt that it would be years from now before I was ready. One week ago, I would not have been considering building a cold frame/greenhouse structure this soon, but now I am.

Is anyone else having problems with their browsers not opening sites? Both Mozilla and Internet Explorer is not functioning for me. I can open gardenweb, and a few other sites, but most are all saying "...www.whatever cannot be found". Internet Explorer will always say that the page is expired. It keeps happening on yahoo and my start page, and almost every other website. I just wondered if it was just me.

cactusfreak, for what it is worth, I am sorry. And I do appreciate your time.

cactusfreak,

That is a great link to a site that shows you how to build a simple hoophouse.

He is honest, and even says don't buy greenhouse type plastic because this structure will only last a month or two. He even says don't try to re-use the plastic because it will be damaged anyway.

Ellen_inMo,

Hang in there! I was hoping by now someone with a kit that used that frame or a user of that frame would dive in here and give details and do's and don'ts about the end walls.

The endwalls are what is going to be the key to this project.

Ellen, for what it's worth I built a 12x12 poly hoophouse a few years ago. I used Schedule 80 (dark grey therefore more sunresistant) pvc pipe, 3/4 inch. I did use greenhouse plastic. I built the wood doorway frame for the ends and draped the plastic over the whole thing, including ends, built doors for it and it lasted three years until a tornado (just the fringe) lifted it and damaged it beyond repair. I think the cost was somewhere around $200. The pvc pipe was still sound but very brittle and the plastic could have gone two more years. The first season I used regular plastic and by the end of the growing season it was laying all over the yard in small pieces. I would never do that again!

As I look back, I wish I had just invested that money in a regular greenhouse or permanent-type structure.

I believe Farm-tek even offers lease-to-buy type deals. You might check into that.

Keep us posted. I still think I want a heated-type greenhouse just for personal use.......maybe.

gld

So Ellen, where are you at with this?

And did you get my email yesterday? SB

Hehe Me too did you call the sources I suggested?

WOW, I E-mailed her yesterday too. Hope her inbox isn't full...

hey guys, yes I got all emails and have been very busy (and sick),I will get back with this later today!

Well I appreciate your interest in how my plans are coming along. I dont understand, though, why Mylu, weebus, and stressbaby did not receive any of my emails. Have you recieved the emails yet? I replied to three of them at around minight or 1:00 am this morning. I am having some bizarre computer problems.

I do appreciate the private emails on this matter! :)

As for an update. Though I have had been not feeling well the past couple days, I have spent some time on the phone, calling every single recommended company from you all. I also spent some time today at a nursery a long distance away from my hometown, where a not-too-busy employee let me analyze and ask questions about their hoop houses. She was very patient and helpful to me; very eager to "share" her knowledge. I then went and talked with the owner about what he would recommend for me. And as it turns out, this business owner has offered to get any equipment I could want, that he would order and have it shipped for me. He says he can beat the prices of the companies I have checked into. I was absolutely stunned to hear this! I didnt ask him, but maybe you all can speculate as to why he would offer to do this? I mean, what is in it for him? Tax write off maybe?

What I have decided to do is to purchase a cold frame skeleton and the end wall framing kits at this time. I dont plan on covering my cold frame until March, so I dont see any reason on letting it weather any sooner than necessary. This would give me more time to learn more of what I need to learn.

I noticed that each of the houses at this large nursery used rail ties below the endwalls for a baseboard, but the sides of the houses appeared to only have the type of baseboard that is pictured with most frames. Do any of you use rail ties for your houses? I have access to many of them.

The end walls were covered with, what is the material? Corrugated fiberglass, correct? As most houses around here are. The end walls are insulated, though I am not sure what the inner wall wood is, it just looks like plywood painted white. Is there a special wood that should be used for this inner wall? Or, could more of the fiberglass be used inside as well? Which is more affordable? Actually, I will be going to the lumberyard and Lowes in the next week, I will be able to find that answer for myself.

I also see the necessity in learning and planning for electrical outlets, water lines, flooring and bench construction. I will not longer be building my "benches on wheels" as it will no longer be necessary for me to have to push my benches in and out of the garage again! Though I have only read on this briefly, I like the idea of using the water filled plastic barrels for additional heat source. I dont understand yet how it works, but defintly will be looking into it. I have seen phots where these barrels are used as "legs" for benches. Has anyone tried this for real? I believe there are a few posts about this, and I want to research this more.

I want to start excavating right now before the ground freezes solid. I have read in several sources that the gravel floor is recommended a certain number of inches below the surface, then a few inches above the surface. Does everyone follow this practice as well? I want to work on this project in stages, from now until next spring, as, as I am learning, I am finding that I have more resources than I thought for finding materials that can save me money. I can get all the rail ties and gravel that I want for free, and also use of the equipment to deliver these items. I have access to scrap 2 x 4's. My brother in law can do the electrical work, and his son owns an insulation company. And now I have this business owner willing to order any product I want for me. I cant wait to see what other good fortune will come my way!

That is where I am at right now.

I also wanted to add, in case anyone else thinks that I havent thought this through enough. I am very much a "planner" in addition to being a "dreamer" with almost all aspects of my life. I dont just wait for things to happen, I make things happen. The greenhouse decision has always been overwhelming for me, and still is. I am not building a greenhouse, or at least not the house I always dreamed of, at this time.

What I need, desperately, is a structure for protecting the thousands of plants that I have to harden off each year. I was originally planning for something not so permanant, however, I am elated to find myself planning for something better, and something that requires research. I am enjoying this immensely, and it is all I can think about anymore. I dont feel that I am jumping into this too soon, I feel that I am doing what needs to be done.

Cactusfreak, I wish you would still share with me, but you dont seem to care for me, or something that I dont quite understand.

Have a great weekend everyone.

I am glad you are getting the information you need and I am also really happy you are getting a "feel" of the project.

I also envy you as you are two zones warmer than me, the hill you have to climb is not as steep.

Most of the interest I have in my small gardening effort is actually experimenting with all the different aspects. Growing from seed with a first planting date of mid-feb and just using a "cold frame" outdoors in zone 4, with the addition of a couple of heat pads for triggering germination, 500 or so gallons of water and a 1500w heater I reluctantly had to use for just 3 nights last spring produced over 11,000 assorted plants.

It is not easy, and I must say the hardest part is getting out of bed at 7am to "adjust" things because by 10am on a sunny March morning if you have not got your overnight protection removed then you have a bunch of dead stuff....

As an aside, you told me once what you plant seeds in. Get some plug trays. 144 plantlets per sqft. Easy to work with too and will last you years.

As to the place where they will get you stuff... He gets a discount the more he buys, If it comes by truck the shipping is the same anyway (remember when I told you to order frame and poly together? One truck)

SCRAP 2x4s.. Yeah I know they exist, and we are looking at functional, not pretty. You could also assemble yourself a structure using those, tape:staple:caulk:lath strip in that order cheap 6mil construction poly to a frame and you will have a structure that will last 3-4 years but you need to change the plastic every season. Don't bother painting it. If you have the money get the wiggle wire stuff!!!!

The possibilities are endless however the main factor is "is it worth the effort" A seasonal structure that you can build really cheap and expect 6 weeks of functionality from is going to be a real asset to your operation.

I was only making a statement. My post was not directed to you.
But since I have come under attack I did a search and there are 15 post directed at coldframe/hoophouses and one specifically points to an Atlas 'KIT' with all the parts and pieces. Another is directed at harding off plants in a cold frame. Another tells how to build one. Another the difference between a coldframe and a greenhouse.
Weebus stated clearly they are used for harding off plants.
Another contemplating a coldframe vs. growing plants inside under lights.
http://search.gardenweb.com/search/nph-ind.cgi?term=coldframe&forum=strucs&forum_name=Greenhouses+%26+Garden+Structures
You didn't state exactly what you wanted.
You sounded like you had no clue what a greenhouse or a coldframe was and wanted us to tell you in one short lesson. I stated there was no one answer for everything. You came off as demanding an answer and an answer now. From start to finish. Your quote "Because, I own and have read zillions of books, yet, I am not finding basic, immediate answers to simple questions in them." IMMEDIATE?
I was only trying to point out it does not happen like that.
I was only making a blanket statement. No need to take it personal. Which is what you did.
As for sharing. I don't post in details because I come off as a know it all. And you truly sounded like you wanted detailed information. You admitted yourself as being an idiot. There was no need for that. Not everybody knows everything as you said.
You made me sound like I was withholding information. And would not share. But you will not here me say I am the most caring person in the world and how much I know about such and such. As you seemed the need to explain how you have had to work so hard at learning to cook and such.
And giving a person a recipe is one thing. Trying to teach someone to make a perfect biscuit is something you learn by watching and doing. If someone thinks beating an egg is giving it a spanking they need to go way back to basics. And that is the way you sounded.
And what on earth does a hairdresser, carpenter, electrician, or mechanic have to do with me sharing. Would you expect them to teach you their trade in 10 mins for free. Is that what you expected me to do. I 'would have' done it, but not in 10 mins. But that would not have made you a certified greenhouse builder just like the others sharing would not make you a hairdresser, electrician, carpenter or mechanic.
And for most women not knowing basic building skills you can leave me out of that. I have tiled every floor in my house with 1 inch thick mexican satillo tiles.(5 lbs each) I have cut down trees. Moved barns. Plowed fields. Worked on cars. Dug a pond. Moved tons of rocks by hand.
And I help my husband build this house 27 years ago. And now we are remolding it. I drew the plans, painted, tiled, hung light fixtures, went to the store and bought all the materials myself. Lumber, tiles, paint, nails, screws, plumbing fixtures. Ordered those on ebay, even the sink drain pipe and the faucets.(A little about me)
Since you feel it's so important that I know you and that you have read zillions of books and studied this and that for 12 years?. And make such a deal about learning to cook?.
And accuse me of trying to make you spend more money on more books. When I never said that at all.
It's obvious you have never read 'How to build a coldframe/greenhouse'. Or 'How to turn your backyard garden into a business'. It cleary tells how to harden off plants.
But I did not tell you to buy it.
Maybe I should say how many people I have helped through personal e-mails. Like the girl who bought a greenhouse for a school and knew absolutely nothing. I practically talked her through it step by step. Told her were to buy the equipment and even offered to send plants. I spent hours reseaching on how to teach children to grow plants. And telling her how much electricity and BTU's and grow lights she would need. How to keep the water from freezing so she didn't kill the plants with cold icy water coming from a garden hose.
I even drew to scale where to put the lights and benches, exhaust fan, and vents. I could go on and on.
Kinda like the person you meant at the greenhouse. That's me. I go the extra mile to give and share. He/she is not making a profit off getting you the equipment. They just care and enjoy it. Like me.
If anything I am the offened one. You totally over reacted. If I wasn't bothered before I certainly should be now.

Here is a link that might be useful: coldframe/hoophouses

Cactusfreak,

"Maybe I should say how many people I have helped through personal e-mails. Like the girl who bought a greenhouse for a school and knew absolutely nothing."

Well you did your share, you want to take a back seat on this one it is fine. No really, you did your bit and it is up to others to share the load.

As you can probably see, this thread has gone down to personal e-mails, and as such is now not visible to the tens, hundreds or thousands of people that may be asking the same questions in six months time.

I was not joking when I posted this statement above....

""The refined master list is something everyone can help with and if we keep it generic then it should go into the FAQ of this site as "How to build a cheap and functional GARDENWEB Hoophouse" ""

It is not to be, this thread has degenerated into an e-mail discussion so the wider audience will not learn, or have access to the resolution.

Add in the fact that this forum only goes back 5 months so no newcomer can search on the topics we covered last season and there you have it!

Why people ask the same questions time after time!

This thread has not got to private E-mails, regardless of your efforts Chris. Now is there anything else you would like to add to divide this board any farther? Your attacking others is not helping Ellen get her GH built.

let's carry on.

I did not start the private email. You can't blame that on me too,
AND I did find 15 discussions. So there you have it.
And since you asked me to take a back seat.
I don't need this attacking. And you obviously don't need me.
How did my one little post come to this?.
You have hurt me deeply.
Over and out.

Look, I started this thread because I wanted some advice about a particular structure that I seen in a Farmtek catalog. AT THE TIME, I wasnt thinking about actually purchasing equipment labeled as "cold frame equipment", or any other thing else that can be used permanantly and for several years. I had my eye on a particular structure that can be disassembled annually. I wanted to use this in an area of my property that I have used for hardening off. However, after talking with several people here, who have enlightened me here, I have seen where I can spend just a few more bucks and get a more permanant structure, and POSSIBLY learn how to do it myself. Okay---INSTANTLY, my brain went into overdrive. I HAD NOT PLANNED ON DOING THIS SO EARLY. When the time came for me to build any permanant structure, it was going to require tearing down a rather large dilapetated shed, building a large greenhouse, and rebuilding another shed. A very daunting task that we are not ready for yet. I never planned on having any kind of gh/coldframe this soon. Now, I am planning on building this on a separate part of my property. And since I have made this decision, I am all excited with nervous energy about every detail.

When I started this, I wasnt thinking "cold frame",and I can guarantee that because,in my neck of the woods, no one refers to as it as a cold frame. It is simply "an unheated greenhouse". Mentioning the word cold frame around here is referring to those flat boxes with windows on top, barely 3 foot above ground. Once I understood what you all were explaining to me, I then realized that we all were talking about the same thing, and yes there are other posts about cold frames, but I did not START this one with the same thing in mind.

Cactusfrak, first off, I swear I had no idea that you were a woman, none of what I said about "average women" is directed at you. Okay, maybe where you are from, a large number of women are skilled at carpentry, but around here there are NOT. I swear I did not mean to offend, I was simply trying to explain myself, and make it clear that I am the average woman.

Cactusfreak, second of all, I am VERY sorry that I made you feel like people are attacking you via email. I SWEAR TO YOU THAT IS NOT HAPPENEING. Though, I can see why you would feel that way by my stupid "thank you for the private emails". I swear, I wrote that as a sincere thank you for those who took the time to let me get to know them better (rather than typing out all personal information on the thread). Cactusfreak, no one is attacking you, I was defending myself against what you said ON MY THREAD about how you feel about a few things.

How could you not expect me to get my own feelings hurt? I have read your name on dozens and dozens of posts with basic questions, and never once did you feel the need to say that you dont feel you should give out information anymore because you have invested years into your research. You even shared a story about a woman who will not tell anyone anything, they must "pay her" for her hard work and years of research. You never shared such a thing before, yet you did it one MY POST. And I was supposed to just take that with a grain of salt? PLEASE REREAD what you wrote, and try to veiw it differently. Have you ever said such things to anyone else before?

Will have to finish in 30 minutes..........

I wanted to come back to this and go through every single thing that cactusfreak said to explain her position on this subject, and one me personally. I have much to say and explain, becuase cactusfreak seemed to not understand one single example I used to explain myself in that post. However, I have decided not to go through this one single minute more.

See, this whole damn thing is clearly my fault. Becuase it has happened again and again and again. For some reason, in real life I am a likeable person, both personally and professionally. I get along and can associate with almost anyone. Yet, I come here to gardenweb, and no matter where I go, I am always setting someone off. SOMETHING THAT I SAID several posts ago led cactufreak to say things on this post that she has never shared before, like how she feels that some of us are coming by information too easily. I have never read where she has shared her feelings about doing this, yet it happened on MY POST. I dont know whether or not all that she said is directed at me, yet, it certainly seemed that way to me. See, this happens to me all the time. I know of several people on gardenweb who have never been in any kind of argument whatsoever, yet I cannot find how to avoid them. There is something wrong with my "internet personality", I guess.

So therefore, I take full responsibility for this, whatever happened with cactusfreak. I dont want to analyze this one minute more. I have children to take care of and lot of researching to do. I am so tired of getting myself upset over what happens on these forums. It just keeps happeneing to me, I should just quit doing this entirely because I am always p---ing people off, and NEVER intended to.

I never asked for answers to every single thing I need to know in one day. It must have come off that way, in my eagerness to learn. Even the answers that I receive are not answers, they are suggestions. Yet, they do lead me into the right direction, or enlighten me on where to turn for more suggestions.

Really, what is so wrong with that?

I am done with this.........it is my fault, I dont understand why, but I just want it to be over.

Hi Chris, sorry that I didnt see your post about the plug trays. I do have some of them and experimented with them for the first time this year with some tomato seedlings and Dahlberg daisy seeds, both of which I had plenty of extras in case I screwed up (over/underwatering). Wow, these sure make things easier!

However, a full sheet of them does not fit into my germination set up. I have several of those domed kits with the heat mat. I also have some of those.......not sure what they are actually called, I always just called them germination trays, but I am sure it is something different, where the whole tray is parallel furrows. We used these in the greenhouse I worked at. These also do not fit into my kit flats, but I have cut some down to a smaller size and I still have to fit them in sideways. So that is why I have been using pie plates and muffin tins. I also do not sow as many seeds of one particular thing (but I grow lots of different things), so I only need a container to fit a certain number of seeds. When the time comes for me to move my entire seed growing set up to a greenhouse outdoors, I will definitly learn more about a more "commercial" way of starting seeds.

The plug trays are much easier though! I do recall having to use lots more vermiculite in my sowing mix because it was difficult for me to squeeze in a consistent amount of Promix all through the trays. Any tips for doing this? I am sure that they use special equipment in commercial greenhouses for this process.

I love doing seeds, from start to finish,it is my number one passion in life.

Chris, did I read you correctly, that you actually started your seeds in a practically unheated greenhouse? I would love to hear more about this. Perhaps I should consider covering my cold frame even sooner than I though, and practice with some extra seeds. It would be a great learning experience for me.

The nursery owner told me yesterday that a double poly covered house will protect me from frost, even without heat, and stressed that proper ventilation during the day is most important. I gotta tell you, I was releived to hear that, though I do intend to throughly research this before I trust my plants to really frosty nights in late March.

I have a feeling my cold frame will be able to do lots more for me than I even realize.

I cant wait to learn more!

Ellen, it isn't your fault. We need to start a new thread.

I won't go in public into the reason this thread turned out this way, but if you read other threads, you are smart enough to put it together. I don't think Cactusfreak got upset about the "average woman" issue. Maybe she did, but I too am a women, and being very mechanically inclined sets me apart from many females. I suspect Cactus is also one sharp cookie, so hopefully she celebrates her abilities rather than take fault at those who aren't so mechanically inclined.

weebus, I admit that I am upset with this, with myself. Oftentimes I have considered getting a different name, and just try even harder to not step on any toes. But without knowing my own faults and changing those things about me, it will not help anything. Sometimes I have to wonder if the problems are stemming from past issues on another thread. I havent seen where there are any arguments on this entire forum, not to this extent, yet here I am........maybe I am just senstive with feeling the need to explain myself (throughly) when I feel someone is trying to downplay my interests/abilities/knowledge/skills/inquiries.........I dont know.

weebus, I had no idea you were a woman also! I need to start checking bios more often. I hate to sterotype myself on average women, but I am happy that you are "being real" about these particular skills that woman have/dont have. Most women I know are not afraid to admit that they dont have certain skills, and humor themselves, and I guess that is where I stand. It is almost funny, if you seen the job I did at a factory for seven years. I worked like a man, and turned wrenches, assisted leadmen and formen at mechanical equipment. Yet,those skills are limited to that particular factory. Those skills will not help me build a cold frame from scratch!

Several days ago, I realized that now my interests have shifted to the actual cold frame construction, and I thought to myself that it is time to review all those posts on this forum. I hope everyone else realizes that I have come from one place to the next. At the beginning of this thread, I was going to sink about $800 into a temporary structure, and instead of doing that, now I will be spending AT LEAST $1500 on a cold frame.

I want to post a new thread,because this one has gone sour and instead of looking forward to checking email, I have been dreading it. Yet, I have a huge list of questions that I need to research before posting again, and it will take me a while.

So if I dont post a new one soon,dont think that I have been chased off! Just really busy.

For all it is worth, I am incredibly grateful to everyone who has helped so far!

LOL I just read what Cactus wrote. I avoided completely reading the above threads but I broke down and read Cactus' in full. MAN, you intimidate even me Cactus. Can I come down and hang out for a while and pick your brain while I watch?
You're one helluva women, and I think the only reason you have a husband is to carry the groceries...LMAO

Ellen_inMo

The reason I am putting plastic on mine now even though there is nothing in it all winter is because mid-feb I will start using it. In Feb it won't be warm enough for me to fit the plastic, but don't you worry, where you are you will get a chance in the spring. If you use wiggle wire or some other type of fastener like that you can always pull the cover tighter as the weather warms up.

Good luck on your project.

Put the plastic on tight as humanly poosible NOW rather than in the Spring. Wiggle Wire is a pain in the ........ to undo and redo, especially with cold fingers.

Did I not just say I am re-covering my greenhouse now because although I won't need it until spring then covering it in the spring is difficult!

Did I also not just say that if you cannot cover the greenhouse now then there will be days next spring when you can at least get a covering on it and later in the season tighten it up if you are using a "wiggle" wire system.

Unfortunatly I am using a staples/tape/lath strip system and you only get one shot at getting that right.

For anyone with an existing coldframe/greenhouse get your plastic on NOW!!!!

For Ellen, and others who are at the planning stage.... Don't worry, you will get the right conditions next spring to get a cover over your hoophouse once you have the frame up. You can make adjustments later as the warm weather comes...