Not having grown Cl. Lady Hillingdon, I won't comment on that.

The difference between the bush form of Mlle. Cecile Brunner, and the Cl.form of Mlle. Cecile Brunner is pretty obvious tho.

The former is a very compact, twiggy bush, fairly small in most of our gardens initially, but eventually reaching a good 8 ft. in mild climates. It is (again in mild climates) pretty much continuous-blooming. You see it in almost every old cemetery. If they have any roses at all. they'll have that one -- which was planted commonly at the graves of infants and young children.

The CLIMBING FORM, by contrast, is capable of sturdy, 15-ft or so canes. Most clones of it are generally considered to be once-blooming, spring or summer, though some plants (or in some conditions) do produce a scattering of repeat bloom.

You can (and many people do) prune the climbing form ruthlessly, down to a garden-friendly size. If you do this, you will get a gloriously-massive spring bloom.
However, that bloom will be followed by the rapid emergence of blooming climbing canes, seemingly capable of Eating Chicago.

The climber is a sport of the bush, but in habit, they are, clearly, very, very different.

Jeri

I'll enlarge a bit on what Phil said. It's not uncommon for a rose variety to produce a spontaneous genetic mutation--a 'sport'. The rose produces a branch with characteristics that are different from the rest of the plant; if the mutated growth is desirable, a new variety can be propagated from it by taking cuttings or buds.

There are different kinds of sports.
The flower color can change: David Austin's 'Mary Rose', with pink blooms, sported to produce 'Winchester Cathedral', which is white; the Tea rose 'Safrano', soft buff-peach-parchment, sported to 'Isabella Sprunt', pale lemon yellow; Rosa gallica 'Officinalis' sported to produce the striped R. gallica 'Versicolor', also called 'Rosa Mundi'. In all these cases, aside from the color, the sport is identical to the parent plant.
A bush or shrub rose can sport to a climber. Usually climbers are less remontant than their sport parents. Generally, as Phil said, the climbing offspring is called by the same name as the parent, with the word 'Climbing' added, as in 'Climbing Cécile Bruenner' or 'Cl. Etoile de Hollande'. There's at least one case of a once-blooming climber sporting to a repeat-blooming shrub rose: 'Félicité et Perpétue' sported to produce 'White Pet' (or 'Little White Pet). The famous 'New Dawn' is a smaller, repeat-flowering version of its sport parent 'Dr. Van Fleet', a once-blooming Wichurana rambler. And 'New Dawn' has produced at least two sports of its own: a white-flowered version, and one with more double, quartered blooms, commonly called 'Awakening'.
Some varieties have produced numerous sports, and often these sports have produced sports of their own. The old Hybrid Tea 'Radiance' was the founding parent of a whole family of color and climbing sports, and even more prolific was 'Ophelia', another Hybrid Tea, which had about thirty sport descendants introduced into commerce.
Sports can revert, producing growth like that of the sport parent. Sometimes the growth takes over the whole plant; sometimes both forms continue to exist on the same plant.
Besides color and plant habit, sporting has produced the Moss roses, which sported from Centifolias and Damasks, and 'Chapeau de Napoleon', with its peculiarly mutated sepals. Sometimes a sport results in a different flower form: the very double 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' sported to 'Souvenir de St. Anne's', a semi-double form, as well as producing at least three other sports that were introduced into commerce. Not all sports are gardenworthy. I think a plant of the 'Dark Lady' that I had sported to produce some quite hideous short-petaled blooms; I didn't consider the possibility that it was a sport until I encountered the second monstrous flower.

I hope this helps.

Melissa

Are you familiar with the difference between bush tomatoes and vine tomatoes? In the vine, the growth leader grows indefinitely while flowers come on side spurs. In the bush type, a shoot terminates quickly in a bloom cluster, and green growth continues via side shoots (laterals).

In climbing sports of bush roses, a mutation switched the growth pattern from one to the other. However, climbing rose canes are not quite like vines, because they stop after growing between 7 and 15 feet long.

Thank you all for the information. I find this very interesting; seems there is much to learn about roses.

Jeri: I wonder why "Mlle. Cecile Brunner" was so popular for the graves of infants and children? Any folklore that you know behind that? (And, if it is not too off-topic, are there cemetarys in Canada that grow roses like yours?)

Phil: Thanks for introducing the information about the sport. It helped to answer my question.

Melissa: Thanks for taking the time to flesh out the information regarding the sport. I grow both "Mary Rose" and "Winchester Cathedral", and prefer WC. I also have "New Dawn", and didn't know it was a sport. I appreciate you taking the time to post at such length. Do you see roses sporting a lot in your garden?

Michaelg: It only makes sense that this sort of science would explain other plants, too. Thanks for making the connection to the tomato family. I remember buying a bunch of tomato plants when I was new to gardening. I gave some to my neighbor, too. At the end of the summer he had short, fruitful plants, loaded with red tomatoes. I had huge, bushy plants, sparsely populated with hard, small, green tomatoes. He simply knew what kind of plant the tomato was, and whether it was determinate or indeterminate. That knowledge made all the difference between his crop and mine, because he knew how to prune his and get the best from it.

I suspect that when I'm more knowledgeable about my roses, I'll be able to care for them better. I'm continually amazed at the Creator's variety and wisdom.

Thanks again for your patience in answering my questions. Someday I hope to contribute to these forums the way you folks do!

Jeri: I wonder why "Mlle. Cecile Brunner" was so popular for the graves of infants and children?

*** Because of the sweet little blooms.
It was also called "The Sweetheart Rose."
You know, there were actually books written on the subject of what roses, and other plants were appropriate for the graves of people of differing ages and sexes.

are there cemetarys in Canada that grow roses like yours?)

*** Google "Garden Cemeteries (or Rural Cemeteries) in Canada"
There is Mount Royal Cemetery, in Montreal.

Also, at the link below, considerable information regarding Canadian Cemeteries.

Of course, you will likely find different plants in Canadian Cemeteries.
And California (of course!) has its own "slant" on the "Garden" or "Rural" Cemetery.

Here is a link that might be useful: Canadian Cemeteries

In general, it's hard to find roses in eastern cemeteries.

This discussion has been really interesting to me, too. I'm pretty new to Old Roses (to roses in general), and although I understood what a sport was, I understood it only in the most basic way. The elucidation by the people discussing sports here has been fascinating! Thanks.

There being so much to learn about roses (and about plants, and about gardening) is what makes them so much fun. I consider myself a good gardener, and I've been gardening fairly intensively for twenty-odd years now, yet I'm still making elementary discoveries, and I know I'll never stop doing so. Gardens are extremely complex assemblages of living organisms and each one is unique, which means that any rules must be adapted to the particular garden, and adapted by the gardener on the basis of his or her observations: there's no one to tell you exactly what to do! Gardening is a wonderful tonic for the intellect.

Melissa

I forgot to add that no, I haven't found any sports in my years of gardening, aside from that one possible sport from 'The Dark Lady'. I enjoyed writing that explanation. I like 'Winchester Cathedral' too, possibly out of a general weakness for white roses.

By the way, would you tell me where you got your forum name? I've been wondering about it for a while.

Melissa

Well, this is how evolution works, through mutations. Small ones, big ones.

A.

I find the folklore of cemetaries just about as interesting as the genetics of creation! :0) Thanks for the explanation of Mlle. CB, Jeri.

Melissa; I chose my screen name from Proverbs 31. It's the description King Lemuel's mother gives him about the kind of wife he should look for if he wanted to be the kind of king God had called him to be. After all, with every great man is a great woman! :0) It's not what I purport to be, but the kind of hard working, discerning, capable, creative, intelligent, kind and resourceful woman I'd like to be someday. As an aside, I find the garden to be a great outlet for all those characteristics. And I agree, gardening certainly is a wonderful tonic for the intellect.

I find the folklore of cemetaries just about as interesting as the genetics of creation!

*** OH. So do I!

Jeri

Thanks. I like that description of a good woman in Proverbs, too; but I had forgotten who said it to whom.

Melissa

As an added bonus feature I have seen some English roses sold as climbers. David Austin has developed roses which climb but the roses that are sometimes sold as climbers are not those particular roses. In warm climates several Austin roses will grow to huge sizes more like what a climber would do but no regular English roses grow that big in Western Washington.

Lance

Great and informative post----

I too wondered how you picked your forum name-----

I like it-----

So many wonderful things to learn about roses--

Florence