Very impressive pictures. There are pictures from my town that look almost like those. A couple of restaurants have copies of them hanging on the wall.

Thanks!

Judging by the bark, I'd say the first two are Loblolly, and the last three Longleaf.

Agree on the sentiments . . . I'd rather have the pines alive, too!

Resin

Wonderful photos, Msssherry! And yes, I agree, if only more of that magnificent timber was allowed to stand.

+oM

It does seem odd to have a prize that encouraged the destruction of the largest tree. You would think that would have seemed odd to most people even at the time.

When ever I read the story of the Singer tract, where the last isolated known population of Ivory Bills were, it amazes me that they harvested the trees, knowing full well it meant the end of a magnificent species.

I know they now claim to possibly have seen the Ivory Bill in Arkansas, but the lack of a follow up sighting makes me doubt the initial sighting. I would love to be wrong.

Yes, I can't believe how little they valued trees and nature back then. The lumber companies in south MS at that time were all owned by northerners who had bought up land cheap [after the Civil War] and clear cut the forests. The only lumber company owner who didn't clear cut was W.S.F. Tatum from Tennessee - he began the practice early of selective cutting. He moved his family to Hattiesburg, and they became prominent in the community - I graduated from High School with one of his great-granddaughters. The Singer Tract in Louisiana was likewise exploited for the hardwoods there. I sent The Nature Conservancy in Arkansas some money to help them buy up more land to protect the possible ivory billed woodpeckers - they probably just saw a pileated woodpecker [which I've got plenty of right here] but in case there really are ivory billed woodpeckers there, I wanted to help out. I've got pictures of both pileated and ivory billed woodpeckers on my living room wall. I'm waiting for my good, non-Xerox copies of some of the forest pictures I'll be hanging. Since there's an old logging spur/"dummy line" on my property, I wanted to have these pictures showing the history of the area.
Sherry

This web site says the tree was a long-leaf pine and was 9' in diameter - maybe the measurements were made at different places on the log, maybe one figure is just inaccurate.
Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: World's Fair Log

Most all southern pines have a max life age of about 200 to 300 years, but Longleaf Pine can reach a confirmed age of over 460 years perhaps reaching 500 years old or more. Many Old massive Longleaf Pines that were here before people arrived probably were in the 500 to 600 year old range (possibly some older rare LLPs) before coming to the usually end by a lighting strike. This is all because of LLPs good disease and insect resistance, and also being wind firm. Many pre-settlement LLPs reportedly reached 150', 160', and maybe some even taller ones.

Here are some big southern pines:
Old Boss Pine

Previous National Champion Loblolly pine tree

Big LLP

300 year old LLP timeline

Great links, Treeguy!
I can attest to LLPs wonderful wind, disease, and insect resistance.
Sherry

Is there any place left where people can see trees like those in Sherry's photos? (Especially photo #3 with the man is standing under those huge trees?)

Are all these big trees gone? if so, this is a huge tragedy.

Pam, yes, there are still remaining groves of big old trees. One such place up here is called Cathedral in the Pines, near Lakewood WI. Virgin white pine, red pine, and hemlock. It is both inspiring and depressing for me to visit such places. Inspiring for self-evident reasons........depressing to know you are seeing mere remnants of once common habitats.

A true quandary in forest managment surrounds the concept of "selective cutting". It seems, at first glance, to be a more enlightened way to harvest timber than the clearcut. But, as was shown subsequently, very often, if not nearly all the time, this amounted to removing the best genetics from the stand, leaving behind trees of lesser vigor and/or potential.

It's a complicated topic. And because we've all been trained to be "consumers", our demand for timber will expand mercilessly in the future, this despite the current slump in domestic demand. As the rest of the world learns to want to live wastefully like we do, more and more pressure will be put upon resources.

I live in paper country, and it's considered unpatriotic around here to not want everything you purchase wrapped in three layers of packaging. BTW, I have no idea how we get out of our parochial mindsets and truly work together for a better future. No idea at all.

+oM

>>>>>there's an old logging spur/"dummy line" on my propertySherry, that's cool. What's left of it? My dad and I are both into trains.

Terry

Nothing but the ridge is left, Terry, and I've found a few old railroad spikes when I dug holes close to it for tree planting. My neighbor knocked down his part of the ridge, and he said he found LOTS of them. I decided to leave mine, because, first of all, we left the woods intact when we built our house, only cutting down just enough trees to accomodate the house, so it's not as obvious as it would be had we cut everything down and planted grass - yuk! I moved to the country to be in the country - I had enough of grass and such when I lived in town. Also, it's a part of the (unfortunate) history of the area. The dummy lines were supposedly very crude, just good enough to last long enough for them to move out all the trees. :(
Pam, the biggest trees in my area are usually growing on the bluffs over creeks - it's against the law here to clear cut trees there, because of the effect it has on rain run off and the resulting disasters. My favorite place in this area is the Cypress Creek camping area, because it has the biggest, most beautiful swamp chestnut and bluff oaks, magnolias, beeches and spruce pines I've seen. The hurricane messed it up quite a bit, but most of the big old trees remain. Mountain laurel even grows there in the total shade created by these big trees, plus jacks-in-the-pulpit, evergreen ginger and other interesting plants. I love to go there just to gawk! :) Maybe there are some similar creekside places in VA like that.
Sherry

Sherry, Pam and Tom,

My 32 acres were formally International Paper land. There are three distinct "zones", ten year old trees, twenty year old trees, ....and fifty year old trees (in the bottom land)... where they couldn't timber because of laws passed at some point. No signs of RR tracks, but plenty of ruts.

The ten acres of young pines will be turned into pure hardwoods, mostly oaks, and a few elms and pecans. Specimen trees spaced far apart. I want a farm look here.

I am thinning the twenty year old pines to around one third of their number and then will encourage/plant a mixed forest. This land is on a gentle slope leading to the bottom land. The bottom land will be left perfectly natural.

There is some more high land on the far side of the bottom land. Not sure what I will do with it.

Thanks for listening to me babble about my favorite subject ;-)

great pics. sad to see them go :(

Tom:

I added Cathedral in the Pines in WI to my list. I'll ask my forester about places nearer to where I live. I've heard that Blackwater Sound is a good place - this is where Virginia is working to develop LLP seedlings.

I share your concerns about waste and commercialism. It's a hot topic for many - the more frustrated people get, the more likely it is a critical mass will reach a tipping point. Most things go in cycles. I think the commercialism of the past few decades may be less appealing to people in the future.

I think the key lies in educating children. Kids are great at nagging their parents when they see them do things that will hurt others or the environment. Kids are more protective of the environment they will inherit.

People my age have fond memories of the days when there were NO malls. We grew most of our food. My mother made my clothes. We didn't have A/C (Ok, I'll admit that if you lived in the South, that was tough) We walked or rode bikes or horses to get around.

Turn the clock forward. When my 38 year old daughter goes to Walmart when she visits the States (she lives in the USVI), she brings fabric bags and rebags her purchases, while lecturing the poor cashier about the evils of plastic bags.

I think we can turn things around once we get better organized, have a compelling message, and we work together.

"I think we can turn things around once we get better organized, have a compelling message, and we work together."

Agreed! To my way of thinking, it is imperative to have hope. Without hope, what is the point of anything? And as much damage as has been done, there is still so much beauty out there to appreciate.........and work to protect.

From previous posts and threads, I know that you, Pam, are a doer, not just a complainer. Many, many years ago, I got into this stuff so much that I ended up working in the field of landscaping/forestry/horticulture. Now, as the next step in this path, I am working on acquiring land to, among other things, grow trees on. We are sending a counter-to-a-counter offer in tomorrow, on an eighteen acre parcel in a very beautiful part of the state. Time will tell if this is meant to be, but the search will continue regardless.

+oM

Tom...Good luck on your offer. Keep us posted.

Tom, good luck on your offer.

Mis Sherry, thank you so much for sharing the photos with us. It is sad to think that the "giants" of the past are known only in old photos.

I sure hope you get the land, Tom - you'll really have fun planting and watching the growth of your trees.
I enjoyed getting the photographs, dibbit - I've been meaning to get some old pictures, and the discussion on another thread prompted me to do it now.
South Mississippi is the oldest part of the state in regards to European settlement - my first ancestors moved here in 1811 - but it was only sparsely settled. The people who lived here, according to what I've read, lived in a somewhat "wild" fashion, like turning their hogs out in the fall to eat acorns and such. I'm sure they cut down some trees as needed, but the clear cutting wasn't done until the lumber companies moved in.
There are still some big trees around here - here's the big magnolia grandiflora at Benndale - it was taken after the hurricane, when I went to check on it to see if it was still standing - it was, but most of the big branches at the top are gone. I want to go visit it soon to see if it's grown any new branches -
{{gwi:326571}}
That's my husband at the bottom.
Sherry

I have seen lots of old Magnolias, but that is the biggest one yet.

Tom: This is my passion. My paying work is in another field that is interesting and important. Still, it is not my passion although I'm very good at it.

We need hope but hope is not enough. We also need a message and plans. From the surveys I've read, the majority of people are with us but they don't know what to do, so they do nothing. We need to educate people about what they can do, recognizing that it takes repetition for the message /lesson to sink in.

I wish I was in a position to do more. Right now, I'm working on projects that show people what they can do.

For example, we installed a rainwater catchment system last year. Our local water is awful, so people pay incredible sums of money to process the awful water into poor quality water. I have 2,200 gallons of pure rainwater under the deck at my house - the rain falls from the sky (free), and costs nothing after you get your system in place. Rainwater tastes great, feels great, doesn't mess up your pipes, doesn't pollute the Bay. There is no downside to a rainwater system.

Yet, in our village, no one does this but us. People are shocked that we use rainwater as potable water (they haven't heard about UV filters). So we are showing people about how the system works, that it is less expensive than the systems they are thinking about buying, that the water is safe. Once people understand that the system is not difficult to install, and that the water is safe, they are interested. At that point, they have trouble finding contractors to do the work (we installed our system but I know that's not for everyone).

I wish you well on your offer. Once you get through this, you'll never look back. Please let us know how things turn out.

Pam

Tom: Re selective cutting:

I am sure you know there are various ways to do selective cutting, so for those who may not know, I will outline the possibilities for others to promote good forestry.

The worst kind of selective cut is the "high-grading" cut. This is where one goes through the woods and selects the most valuable trees to cut. This not only degrades the genetic stock, but leaves the less valuable trees with the least potential to take over the growing space, so future opportunities to harvest any good timber are much reduced.

Next, and not much better, is the diameter limit cut. This cut takes all trees over a specific diameter limit, but often leaves low value or "cull" trees. This also degrades the genetic stock, but not so much as the high grading cut, and reduces the opportunities for future good harvests.

Then there is the "silvicultural" selective cut. This is a very good harvest method. This method evaluates each tree on the basis not only of its value, but also, and perhaps more, on its potential for future growth. Often the most valuable trees are left because they can continue to add value at a fast rate. Trees are selected for harvest if they are overmature, not growing much, of poor form with little potential for future growth, damaged or diseased, or taking up growing space that can be utilized by higher potential trees. Trees are also cut simply if they are too crowded for optimum development. This selective cut system actually improves the genetic stock of the forest.

In my forest for the first 30 years or so I did non-commercial timber stand improvement (silvicultural) thinnings. Here I selected the best trees and then cut down, or for the first thinning, gridled, the poorer or over crowded trees. The most recent thinning of the forest has been a silvicultural selective cut as described above, with some non-commercial cutting of some low value trees to make more room for the better trees.

As a result of my selective cutting over a period of 35 years, my forest is a really remarkable collection of beautiful, tall, vigorously growing trees that includes about 14 species. Oh yes, I sometimes favor a specific tree if it is a kind that is not that common in my woods--a diversity enhancement thinning strategy. And some trees are left that might be cut for pure commercial TSI purposes, simply because they are very old and/or beautiful, or serve as dens for critters.

Also, I want to make the pitch that clear cutting is not always bad. There are a lot of situations where a clear cut is a good thing, one of the most obvious is where a forest has been abused (high graded) for so long that there is nothing but very poor trees left.

--Spruce

"There are a lot of situations where a clear cut is a good thing, one of the most obvious is where a forest has been abused (high graded) for so long that there is nothing but very poor trees left"

The other is to allow light-demanding species (e.g. pines, oaks) an opportunity to reproduce

Resin

Resin:

Exactly. There are also other "systems" to ensure reproduction of light-demanding species, including staging harvest cuts, ending with a penultimate "shelterwood" cut. Which system is best depends on the specific species involved. For black cherry, the most important light-demanding (intolerant) species in my woods, large clear cuts don't work well. The best method is patch clearcuts with some staged cuts a second choice. Black cherry reproduces very well in moderate shade (under any canopy that is not as dense as maple or hemlock), but needs good overhead light, without too much "exposure," to grow into the large sapling stage with good vogor and form.

Well, you can see I love forestry and want to promote it, but then I do go on too much, perhaps.

--Spruce

The trees obviously came back here with a vengeance after the clear cutting, enough that my property was cut over again, not sure when, but a local told me he thought it was in the 1970's. There are still [after the hurricane] three water oaks and one black gum with circumferences in the 75" - 80" range. I'm thinking about giving my property to The Nature Conservancy or the Hattiesburg branch of the Audubon Society upon my death, so maybe these (and others) can be the giants of the future. Also, I've got so many host plants for butterflies and fruit producing trees and bushes that feed birds, it'd be bad for their numbers if this property were logged.
Sherry

Missherry:

I think giving your land to The Nature Conservancy is a very good idea, but I very much doubt this will preserve your land. I have been a member for longer than I can remember, and their mission is to preserve only land that has some really unusual natural/ecological features. Most of the land donated to them is sold to generate funds for their preservation efforts for really, really unusual special properties. My tree farm is one of the most beautiful tracts of land in Garrett county, MD. I have wetlands, a forest that is developing some true magnificence, including hemlocks and red spruce trees hundreds of years old. One area has ancient hemlock trees growing over huge boulders the size of railroad cars, etc, etc. But in all honesty, if I donated my land to The Nature Conservancy, I have no doubt they would cut the timber and then sell the land--there is nothing really unique enough to interest them in making the effort to perpetually preserve the this land.

--Spruce

Miss Sherry and Spruce, there are local land trusts and other entities/bodies (municipalities, clubs, charities, the state for game lands, etc., especially if the body is a licensed charity and can apply for property tax exemption) that WILL keep your land as you want them to, especially if you can leave moneys to help with the preservation. And sometimes the Nature Conservancy will take land and keep it, but, as Spruce says, usually, their mandate seems to be to protect the most rare and the largest stretches of land that they can, so they do sell and otherwise make money (logging) from lands given or left to them. You MIGHT be able to set it up beforehand that they will keep the land as is, but it is hard to do.

A better idea might be to set up a conservation easement on your land, which is permanently registered with the deeds to the land. You, and your heirs, can sell the land, but the easement goes with it, and it's NOT easy to alter the terms of a conservation easement document! Under the terms of the easement (and ALL of them are - or should be - individually written for that parcel of land, to protect and preserve those aspects that you find most important), you can set aside land for future building sites or allow for it to be divided in the future, but the general terms can NOT be changed without the permission of whatever organization granted the easement - the IRS keeps a close eye on easements, as they can affect taxes, due to the easement donor giving up the development rights to the land in perpetuity. You should donate a certain amount of money to whoever holds the easement, to pay for any future legal challenges, and to pay for monitoring to be sure the terms or the easement continue to be met. This granting can NOT - for tax purposes - be called a fee, but it is pretty much required - some land trusts MIGHT be willing to waive it, but not most of them. Some land trust want more money than others for monitoring and legal defense, so it might pay to "shop around" and see what the trusts in your area want. The Nature Conservancy can also hold easements, so they would be a possibility if there are no land trusts in your area.

Hope that helps, and hope I was clear. If not, I can try again!

I've never even heard of a conservation easement Dibbit - thanks for the information. And thank you, too, Spruce, for the info about The Nature Conservancy. I wouldn't give them the land without first getting some sort of written legal document that they couldn't just sell it to anybody.
I've been meaning to start looking into the best way keep my land for wildlife and big trees, but I keep putting it off. I'm 59 now, will be 60 this year, so, even though I'm in good health, I guess it's time to do something!
Sherry

Spruce, too much from you? Never! And yes, you correctly identified that I was making only a very general statemnet re: clearcutting/selective, etc. Professional foresters really do know a lot about this stuff, and IMO, their advice and guidance should be sought in making management plans.

For those of you who haven't checked this out, go to the USDA Silvics page, and read up on just one or two of your favorite species. What a wealth of info! And that is just an overview. A pro forester on your land will be able to work with you down to very specific details, much like Spruce talks of in his past management practices.

Anyway, the counter-to-the-counter offer went in today. We're as high as we're going to go on that piece, so if this doesn't work out, we'll just keep looking. ;^)

+oM

What an informative thread this has been! I am a lover of gardens and a lover of trees, one who thinks it is a shame when old forests are no more, but has not done much about it. You have my admiration and respect for the work you are doing, each in your own way.

I have only a couple of acres, and live in an area where the original plant community was oak woodland. Since most of it was cut long ago, I have planted a couple of native oaks in replacement in the area outside the garden around the house. They can't be planted close to the garden, since our native oaks can't tolerate summer water. I plan to plant a few more trees that belong in that community, and there are some existing redwoods and oaks there already. But it will never be more than a patch. The land is not large enough. Still, we are in the hills near an undeveloped area, so perhaps it can be an extension of that area.

Pam, if you are reading this, I would love to learn more about your rain cachement system. We live in an area that only gets rain in the winter. I would love to capture that winter rain to use on my garden in the summer. We're already installed solar PV system on the roof and generate most of our own power, but the water use is still an area we could improve.

Rosefolly in California

I'd love to hear more about that rain cachement system, too, Pam, like how much it costs. I don't have a deck, just a covered front porch, so I don't know where I'd put one, but there have been many times in the summer when I've wished I could have some of the heavy rain that fell previously, but just ran off in the little stream in the bottom of the hollow. I got 2.6" more rain today. I noticed that Red Creek is almost flooded already - I bet we have creek and river flooding big time this spring.
Sherry

In conifer forests here there are lots of small trees growing in the shade of bigger examples of the same species that are smaller because of when or where they happened to germinate. Many of these supposed runts may be as old as the full-sized examples looming overhead. When there is a blow-down or other opening in the canopy surviving little guys respond to the increased exposure and take off. So, size doesn't necessarily indicate superior genetics as expressed by vigor. Size can be due to circumstance.

Another regular local example of this situation is the extra-big specimens found along streams. These are jumbo examples because they are receiving high levels of moisture and fertility, and may also live through fires that take out the surrounding stands periodically - the rest of the forest may be significantly younger at any given time.

I'm aware of all that, bboy. As I stated upthread, mine was only a generalization, intended to open up the possibilities in forest management. Again, it is complicated. Phenotype-genotype, indeed we're looking at both out there!

+oM

Spruce: Please don't stop "going on" about forestry and trees. I think everyone on this forum has learned a great deal from you and your love of forestry. I will always be grateful for your advice and encouragement.

Threads wander, and I do think they are wandering more than usual while we wait for a break in the weather. Sherry, Alabama and I are lucky, our weather doesn't get *really* cold (hurricanes are another story) and we can expect warm temps and longer days soon. But not yet.

Sherry and Rose: You had questions about rainwater catchment or harvesting systems. I'll probably tell you more than you want to know but here goes.

A rainwater harvesting system can be as simple as running the downspouts from your gutters into rain barrels, then using the water for your plants. Or you can connect the downspouts to larger storage tanks. Storage tanks can be above ground or underground. Or you can store water in a pond. Or you can create an urn from cement as a design element and store water in it (more about this below)

Most decisions will depend on how you plan to use the rainwater and where you live. If you will use the water for your garden, you can collect it in tanks. If you plan to use rainwater for household use (potable water), you have to include additional components to ensure that the water is safe.

Our rainwater system reflects the style of our house, roof, where we can store water, average annual rainfall, etc. Our house is built on pilings with the first floor about 10 feet above ground. The area under the house is concrete. The first floor of the house is surrounded by a large deck. Note: you can build decks for a fraction (about 5%) of the cost of heated space. We store rainwater in four 550 gallon polyethylene tanks under the deck because that's where we have space. We bought the tanks from Agri-Supply
[ http://www.agrisupply.com ] for $342. each. They were the largest expense ($1400). The tanks are connected with pipes and regulated by valves.

If you want to store water for the garden, you don't need to buy expensive tanks. I used to store rainwater in a 150 gallon livestock tank for my garden at the cottage (less than $100).

Since rainwater is our potable water, we have a a "roof washing" system that diverts the first few gallons of water (into the dog pool). This water may have dirt, bird droppings, etc. We covered the storage tanks with heavy-duty black plastic to inhibit the growth of algae that grows when water is exposed to sunlight. Pipes connect the storage tanks to a 50 gallon tank in the garage under the house. A pump moves the water from the tank to the house water system - but only after it passes through a 5 micron filter to catch small debris and an ultraviolet filter [ www.plasmapurifier.com - about $600.] that kills bacteria. We use a water meter to measure how much we use (i.e., dishwasher: 6 gal, front loading clothes washer: 20 gal). The entire system is low (almost no) maintenance.

The total cost of our system was about $2,200. Our neighbors are paying $20,000+ for water treatment systems that can't make good water out of the stuff that comes out of the ground. Rainwater is wonderful - it feels and tastes great!

Our roof is flat. If you have a steep pitched roof, you can collect much more water. With a flat roof, one inch of rain = 600 gallons of rainwater. We plan to install at least one more tank so we won't lose so much rainwater when our "tanks runneth over."

I started to do research on rainwater catchment systems about 10 years ago. Information was hard to find. Today, I read about a book on Amazon that has many excellent reviews: "Water Storage: Tanks, Cisterns, Aquifers, and Ponds" by Art Ludwig (source of the cool cement urn idea). He also writes about how to design and build greywater systems - the other side of the same coin. (link below) His book is ranked #4,700 out of millions of books on Amazon! I guess this makes sense when you realize how fast the population is growing in areas where water is scarce.

I wish I had this book when I was doing research and considering options. I'll use the book to see how we can tweak our current system - and maybe how to make that urn.

Have fun!
Pam

Here is a link that might be useful: Water Storage: Tanks, Cisterns, Aquifers, and Ponds

That is SO interesting, Pam! I guess you could say I've been harvesting rain water to a degree. I leave my wheel barrow in the open in the summer to collect the rainfall, then put it in 1-gallon milk cartons to use for watering pot plants and some of my garden plants. In order to have a total system like you've got, you'd need a big place to store the water, which I don't have. It would be practical for the people on the coast who are building their homes on stilts to install when they rebuild. I think it's wonderful that you've done this, and you're right, rain water is great! Fortunately for me, the ground water from my well is outstanding. When I tasted my neighbor's water, that was one of the things that sold me on this property. I was used to city water, which I now can't drink - it tastes nasty after drinking this pure and clean water!
Is it just here, or is Carolina jessamine the VERY first thing to bloom in winter/spring? Mine is blooming now, so the red maples should start showing their red color (from the winged seeds, I think) pretty soon. I made this picture of the first jessamine bloom on my fence today -
{{gwi:326573}}
Sherry

I haven't noticed the Jessamine here, I'll have to check tomorrow. I planted some to cover the back side of my shed. It sat there all summer and then took off growing just in time for the freeze.

Carolina jessamine are early but they haven't made their presence known here as yet. I don't think we'll see them until February. They cheer things up and help you realize that spring is coming!

I love looking at links of big or champion trees. I wish they would post pictures of the national champions. I would love to see them. For some reason you have to be a member of a website to see them.

I wish they'd post pictures of the champions, too, jqpublic!
Pam, Carolina jessamine always makes me think spring is on the way, but since this particular vine is on my fence in a 'sunnier-than-most-of-the-woods' area, it's blooming a little earlier than the woods vines.
Sherry

I thought I'd posted this already, but I don't see it so I'll try again. Pam, thanks for the information. I'll get the book you recommended and then we shall see what we can do.

This giant swallowtail emerged today, and it's 73F degrees [about 23C for you Resin :)] outside - sure feels like spring!
{{gwi:326574}}
Sherry

"[about 23C for you Resin :)] outside - sure feels like spring!"

More like high summer! That's almost as hot as it ever gets here!

Resin

Sherry: I have a feeling that we will soon lose you to the Butterfly Forum! And to the great outdoors. Where do giant swallowtails live before they emerge? Your photo of the magnolia is incredible. That tree must have been close to a record before the storm. I do hope it survives.

rosefolly: If you have questions after reading the book, I'll be happy to help if I can. Your state may publish a Rainwater Manual with advice about your climate and resources. I'm surprised more people don't use rainwater, especially if they aren't tied into a public water system. Once your system is in place, you have great water, and it's free.

Pam, the magnolia tree in the picture was the champ for MS before they found a tree in Jones County that got more points - it isn't as tall as the Benndale tree, but it has a considerably bigger spread, and is the national champion. I've seen the picture of the Jones County tree, and it looks to me like two mag grands that have merged, so, as far as I'm concerned, the Benndale tree is the national champion, at least it was before the hurricane, when it had a huge canopy. I took this picture of what was left of the canopy after the storm - pitiful!
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Once hunting season is over and it's been dry long enough that I won't bog down on the dirt roads you have to drive on to get to the tree, I'll go see how many and how big its new branches are.
Another giant swallowtail has emerged today. I keep my chrysalids in my unheated guest bedroom with the door shut, and I think the very cold weather we had followed by this warm spell has made a few of them "think" it's spring! Giant swallowtails start off life as eggs on the leaf of a member of the citrus family, which can be cultivated fruit trees, or cold hardy host plants like hops tree/ptelea trifoliata, hercules club/zanthoxylum clava-herculis, prickly-ash/z. americanum, and rue/ruta graveolens. The egg hatches out a caterpillar, which eats the leaves of its host plant until it grows to a certain size, at which point it pupates and becomes a chrysalid. Caterpillars usually wander off the host plant to a nearby tree or shrub or other structure, so chrysalids are usually found in nature somewhere close to the host plant, but my chrysalids come from caterpillars I raise myself in ventilated cages on my porch to keep them safe from predators. When I find an early instar (very small) caterpillar on the host plant, I cut the leaf with the caterpillar off (or sometimes an entire small branch) and put it in a water pick, which is a little plastic thing that you put water in to keep the cuttings fresh, sort of like little "vases." They form their chrysalids on the inside of their roomy cages - outside, a big percentage of chrysalids are lost to the ravages of the weather and predators, so keeping them inside gives me plenty to release each spring, more than would naturally occur. By keeping them in a cool/cold but not freezing room, most of them don't emerge until late February, March or April, but there are always a few that emerge too soon, like these two. Here's a picture I made last year of some pupating giant swallowtail caterpillars - the first and third things from the right are giant swallowtail chrysalids, which is what the butterfly in the picture came out of. The brown and white scrunched up caterpillars are pupating, soon to become chrysalids.
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Once spring has set in for good, I'll be working outside a lot, but I'm sure I'll still post on the Butterfly AND Tree Forums. Hurricane Katrina really got me into the 'tree business' and I know I'll continue to want to ask questions and share my experiences with other tree lovers. Most butterfly host plants are trees, so the two go together. On another thread on this forum where elm trees are discussed, a poster asked me why I chose one type of American elm over another type - well, shape doesn't matter too much in the woods, but elms are a host plant for question marks and several other butterflies and moths, so shape was the last thing on my mind when I ordered mine! :)
And I sure hope you'll keep us posted about your big tree project, Pam!
Sherry