I'm in the same boat as you; looking for the same thing. What I've learned so far is you get what you pay for. What you get at a big box store is not as hardy as a more expensive model at a dealer. There is a different in both the overall sturdiness of the frame as well as components like the tranny. I've been advised by dealers to not get the bottom of the line models if I'm going to plow with it. Of course, they're trying to sell something, but I've gotten the same advice on this forum. I've heard models made by MTD are not that reliable (see link: http://www.mtdproducts.com/corporate/index.jsp). While cub cadet is on there, I've heard they are owned by MTD but made by someone else. Not sure how true that is. Currently I'm considering John Deere, Husq, Craftsman. Simplicy seems fine too, but very expensive. I was going into this hoping to get by for under $1500, now I'm hoping to get by for under $3000 including the tractor and wheel weights. If you want to see my post and replies, search on "gandm1". Maybe a better model but used would be a good value; maybe you can find something on ebay or craigs list. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply and heads up on the previous thread, actually had already read it, very good info. Wish you had already bought one and could point me down the right road! Seriously, though, after running a cheapy for over 10 years, and having it work OK, I'm having a hard time dropping major money on a new one. Anything I buy now is going to be pretty much twice as powerful as I used to own! Just trying to do as much research as possible before spending the cash.

Off topic, I posted the same message twice, if anyone knows if I can delete the duplicate, or if an admin wants to delete the duplicate, please feel free!

You guys are going to have to pony-up about $3K - $5K for a New heavy duty lawn tractor or GT or $2K - $3K Used for a heavy duty GT. Don't be fooled by HP either. Look at any older Wheel Horse, John Deere, Simplicity, etc... many had single cylinder 8 - 10 - 12 HP engines that could not be stopped because they had high torque. A GT is going to have the heavy duty frame and tranny needed for pushing snow (especially in MI). A $1,500.00 tractor weighs about 500 lbs where as a GT will weigh closer to 1,000 lbs. Keep reading the posts on here and other tractor forums and you'll find a consensus regarding this topic.

To answer your questions:

1. Whats the best engine between the different Kohlers (command, courage, etc) and Briggs and Strattons (intek, vanguard, endurance, etc)? Is this a Ford and Chevy argument?

The Kohler Command or B/S Vanguard are the best - Vanguard being the better of the two. You'll be in the $3K range (new) for a tractor with either of these engines.

2. I plan on pushing snow also (blade), so does this take the single cylinders out of the question?

An older, single cylinder, high torque engine will handle the job just fine. Torque is the key. A twin cylinder however, will be much smoother than a single.

3. Brands: Cub Cadet, Husqvarna, Toro, are they all comparable, does it come done to having a service center close by and/or features on the tractor? Which brand gives you the best bang for the buck value?

That's a vaugue question as there are many different model Cub's, Husqy's, Toro's, etc... Go on each web site and compare (apples to apples) the models available. Make sure you compare lawn tractors to lawn tractors and GT's to GT's. There is a huge difference in build quality and functionality between the two regardless of the brand name. A dealer can make a big difference if you have problems or require service. Alot of people buy based on the reputation of the dealer.

4. Does either of the above mentioned brands have better components that the rest (tranny, frame, etc)?

The higher end ($3K - $5K) models of most brands will have better components - the lower end tractors ($3K or less) are all basically the same.

5. Are the tractors you buy at the big box stores different (lower quality even though same brand) than the independent dealers?

Most dealers have access to the higher end tractors that the box stores don't. You have to look closely at the model numbers and compare the spec's of the big box store models and the dealer models. Usually the dealer model will have a better engine or tranny than the box store model. Again, you really have to compare the specifications.

6. Anyone know anything about the Briggs and Stratton engines made specifically for Cub Cadets and Tractor Supply, are they really something better than the other engines?

Usually there are no major differences. Look at the parts breakdown of a "brand X" Intek, ELS, etc... and you'll see that they have the same parts as the standard B/S engine. Most times the "brand X" engine just has the "made exclusively for "brand X"" written all over it and the manual will tell you to use only genuine "brand X" parts (oil, air filters, etc...).

Read as many posts as you can on this topic and I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion. I speak from the experience of buying a lower end tractor that did not meet my needs. Yes, you can sell it and recoup some of the cost but in the long run you end up losing $ and end up buying what you really needed to begin with. You'll get a few good years out of a low-end tractor if you work it harder than its intended purpose - which is generally cutting the lawn or light duty yard maintenance.

Just my opinion - and you know what they say about opinions.

"Read as many posts as you can on this topic and I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion. I speak from the experience of buying a lower end tractor that did not meet my needs. Yes, you can sell it and recoup some of the cost but in the long run you end up losing $ and end up buying what you really needed to begin with. You'll get a few good years out of a low-end tractor if you work it harder than its intended purpose - which is generally cutting the lawn or light duty yard maintenance."

This is a person of experience. BTDT myself. Get the best bang for your buck the first time. Other wise, you'll keep spending until you finally feel the ker-thunk in the head from the big ole hammer.

I bought a used Simplicity Landlord Garden Tractor back in 2005, and this was a 2000 year model tractor. I've never looked back again. Fortunately, I was able to sell my entry level JD and recoup some of my equipment investment.

Well Here who makes what brand of tractor.
AGCO outdoor power
Made by Simplicity

AGCO-ALLIS Outdoor Power:
Made By Simplicity

ALLIS-CHALMERS Outdoor Power:
Made By Simplicity
Allis owned Simplicity from 1965 to 1985 Simplicity continued to produce it for Allis after that.

ARIENS CORP:
ARIENS Brand
GRAVELY as of 1982
NATIONAL MOWER as of 2006
LOCKE as of 2006
EVERRIDE as of 2007
GREATDANE as of 2007 prior owned JOHN DEERE
STENS PARTS
BYNORM PARTS
Ariens in the past has made Tractors under the SPERRY NEW HOLLAND name and snow blower and tillers under the JOHN DEERE name as well as snow blowers under the MAC name.

BOLENS:
Prior ownership
BOLENS
AMF
TROY-BILT
MTD as of 2002

CASE:
Bought out COLT in 1964
1983 was sold to Jack INGERSOLL

CRAFTSMAN:
Manufactures of Craftsman products
DAVID BRADLEY
ROPER
MTD
MURRAY
AYP
HUSQVARNA
JOHN DEERE
CUB CADET as of 2009
ARIENS
BOBCAT MOWERS
SIMPLICITY

CUB CADET:
I.H. CUB
MTD CUB
LAWN BOY AND TORO made products in the past under I.H. CUB CADET label snow blowers from TORO and push mowers from LAWNBOY

DEUTZ-ALLIS Outdoor products:
Made by SIMPLICITY

DYNAMARK:
Made by AMF & MURRAY

ECONOMY:
OR JIM DANDY & POWER KING

FORD Outdoor power:
Made by JACOBSON,GILSON & TORO/WHEELHORSE
. GIBSON TRACTOR:
GIBSON.

GIERE:
MOUNTAINEER 1&2

GILSON:
GILSON
MONTGOMERY WARDS
LAWN BOY

GRAVELY CORP:
Prior Ownership
GRAVELY
STUDEBAKER
Studebaker-Worthington
1982 Sold to Ariens. Currently imports of Rapid tractors

HOMELITE:
Prior makers of the Tractor
SIMPLICITY
JACOBSON
Asset sold to JOHN DEERE IN THE 1990S Original name of the JOHN DEERE SABRE was going to be DEERELITE
Currently own by a Korean manufacturing company\

HONDA outdoor power:
HONDA
JOHN DEERE in the 1990S produced certain models under the Honda Label
HONDA lawn tractors now sold overseas not in U.S.

HUSQVARNA former owners ELECTROLUX
Brands produced by HUSQVARNA
HUSQVARNA
AYP
CRAFTSMAN
POLUAN
POLUAN PRO
WEEDEATER
YAZOO-KEE
JOHANSON
BLACK MAX sold at SAMS CLUB
RYOBI sold at HOMEDEPOT.

INGERSOLL
Prior and current owners
COLT
CASE
JACK INGERSOLL
ROTHBERGER-GROUP
EASTMAN INDUSTRIES as of APRIL 2006

JACOBSON
JACOBSON
TEXTRON

JOHN DEERE
JOHN DEERE
SABO
SABRE became the L & LA 100 SERIES on a new frame made at JD plant in Tn.
SCOTTS After 1998 made on same frame as Sabre
One Craftsman lawn tractor in 1990s based on saber lawn tractor.

KUBOTA CORP:
KUBOTA

LAWNBOY prior owners and todays owners
LAWNBOY
GISON
TORO as of 1990

MASSEY FERGUSON outdoor power
AMF
SNAPPER
INGERSOLL
SIMPLICITY

MTD BRANDS:
MTD
MTD PRO
BOLENS as of 2001
WHITE OUTDOOR as of 1981
YARDMAN as of 1975
MASSEY-FERGUSON in Europe AS OF 2006
LAWNFLITE
COLUMBIA
TORO tractors as of 2007
TROY-BILT as of 2001
CUB CADET AS OF April 1981.
SCOTTS all wheel steer tractors

MURRAY Prior and todays owners:
MURRAY UNTIL 1993
TOMKINS 1993 TO 2004 Noma products was bought then as well
BRIGGS & STRATTON AS OF 2004 to present
After MTD made Scotts tractor MURRAY made them for HOMEDEPOT until 1998 when JOHN DEERE took over production from the 1999 year
They also produced the STANLY BRAND as well as Dynamark & Noma

NEW HOLLAND outdoor products: produced by
ARIENS
TORO/WHEELHORSE

POLUAN & POLAUN PRO produced by
ELECTROLUX/AYP
AS OF 2007 Husqvarna is the parent company

POWER KING produce by and produced for
(JIM DANDY/ECONOMY)
POWERKING produced Garden tractors for SNAPPER IN THE MID TO LATE 1990S
ASSESTS OF POWER KING where bought by YAZOO-KEY

ROPER brands produced
ROPER
CRAFTSMEN
RALLY
POULAN
HUSQVARNA
BECAME AYP IN 1990S
Bought by Electrolux in 1990s
Now under Husqvarna label.

SABO: Made by
JOHN DEERE IN Germany on the SABRE frame orange is the color

SABRE made by
JOHN DEERE ON late 1980s and early 1990s STX & GT275 FRAMES transitioned to the L100 frame last year of production

SCOTTS made by
MTD
MURRAY
JOHN DEERE

SIMPLICITY:
Owned by
SIMPLICITY until 1965 when ALLIS-CHALMERS bought then until 1985
SIMPLICITY 1985 until 2006
BRIGGS & STRATTON 2006 TO PREASENT
BRANDS MADE AND UNDER SIMPLICITY CURRENT AND NON CURRENT
ALLIS-CHALMERS
DEUTZ-ALLIS
AGCO-ALLIS
AGCO
MASSEY FREGUSON
HOMELITE
MONTGOMERY WARDS
SNAPPER
FERRIS.

SNAPPER made by and for
SNAPPER
MASSEY-FERGUSON
POWER KING made garden tractor for them in late 1990s
2004 SIMPLICITY BOUGHT SNAPPER
2006 BRIGGS & STRATTON BOUGHT THEM ALL

STEINER: MADE BY AND owned by
STEINER SOLD IN 1990S TO TEXTRON
JACOBSON
0WNED BY TEXTRON UNTIL MID 2000S
Now owned by Commercial Grounds Care, Inc: WHO ALSO MAKE BOBCAT MOWERS.

TORO: corp. owns the following brands or rights to them
WHEELHORSE bought from AMC in 1989 prior to late 1970s it was its own company
GILSON
LAWN BOY
EXMARK
They also produce tractors for FORD,FORD/NEW HOLLAND & NEW HOLLAND
Since 2007 MTD makes the TORO lawn and garden tractors

TROY-BILT owned by and tractor made
GARDEN WAY until 2001
Since 2001 owned by MTD
Bought Bolens in the late 1980s

VENTRAC:
Made by founding family of STEINIER when they became dissatisfied with the way TEXTRON was handling STEINER. The company is currently called VENTURE PRODUCTS and the attachment from both STEINER and VENTRAC are interchangeable

WALKER: brands they produce and some of there customers
WALKER
EXMARK.

WHEELHORSE: PARENT COMPANIES
WHEELHORSE
AMERICAN MOTORS CORP(AMC)
TORO.

WHITE OUTDOOR owners
Owned by MTD since 1981

YARDMAN owners
Owned by MTD since 1975

Anything I buy now is going to be pretty much twice as powerful as I used to own!

no, it will have 2x teh RATED HORSEPOWER. but probably less than half the reall power to the ground. even low end old machines put more power to the ground than most box store machiens avail now, esp new low end models.

as to teh question of box store versus dealer, if the model numbers are the same, then they are the same machines. for example the LA series Deere you buy at lowes is teh exact same one tha tyou buy at a dealer. BUT the X series are available ONLY at dealers and much better build quality. a box store machine in general is expected to last 5-10 years with good regular maintenance. a true dealer line machine(of pretty much any brand) should last 15-20 years.

in 2004 i bought a Deere L130, comparable to teh LA165 of today. i used it over 100 hours a year and wore it slap out. last year i bought a X500 and i fully expect it to last me way longer the L130 has. yes, i still use the L to cut tower sites and to spray. but every year i replace at least 1 spindel, 2 sets of blades, and for the last 3 years somethign on teh front end. so far steering linkages, axle, steering gears, etc. never had major problems, but it has nickel and dimed me to death.

my point is you can either spend 2x as much now and have a machine that lasts, or spend a bunch more later fixing the low end machine and eventually replacing it.

All, thanks for the advice so far, keep it coming! Although I'm not sure knowing who makes what will do for me, but that's quite a list. I had a big box store tell me that Husqvarna is now making the Ariens tractors.

I know I'll get a better tractor the more money I spend, but I only have 3/4 of an acre to mow, and a 10 foot x 70 foot tarmac driveway to plow. I did this with a 12 horse Lawn Chief for 10 years, and used it to blow snow with a blower attachment also. Yes, I had the engine worked on twice over the 10 years, but really nothing else besides normal maintenance. Any of even the mid-lower end models are going to have nearly 10 HP more (and I'm sure more torque) than what I used to have. Do I really need more than a Cub Cadet 1046 or Husqvarna 2246? It'll be 10 times better than the old Lawn Chief. And I know the drawbacks of plowing vs blowing snow, just takes some planning ahead on your plow work.

Something else to add on the Briggs and Straton engines in the JD, Husky, and Cadet tractors listed as 'commercial' or made specially for. I had a dealer tell me that each manufacturer gave B&S the specs for what they wanted, and B&S produced cheaper than Kohler. His opinion was Kohler used to be better, they make only one grade of engine, good, while B&S makes various grades of engines, the latest to be as good as Kohler. Correct?

mkaiser,
If you end up looking for a slightly used tractor (which I recommend), don't be dismayed by single cylinder engines. It's not like a chevy 4.3 V6 vs a 5.7 V8, where they tacked on two more cylinders of the same size. With a single cylinder motor you get one big piston, with a dual, you're looking at two small pistons. They're all around 500-600cc.

Attached is a link of EXACTLY what you need, for sale in Union City, MI. It's a single clinder 540cc Kawasaki (you won't find a Kawasaki powered tractor in box stores), and a gear-driven transmission. It ends in four days.
I have this same tractor and love it (but mine's not this nice).

marineguy,

Thanks for the heads up on the JD auction, nice find!

Found a good website that you can find a lot of used garden tractors on to look and compare.

tractorhouse.com

Happy hunting!

marineguy,

I'll be off this saturday to pick up the GT262 in Union City, hopefully got a steal, thanks again.

That's great. You wanted max bang-for-the-buck and you got it. I'm pretty sure this tractor was in the $4,000 price range when new. I hope it works out for you. If not, with 22 bids, you'll have no problem selling it for the same you paid for it, even five years from now. That's the beauty of buying used. Mine was used just about daily for 15 years by a real estate management company before I bought it and it's still a solid tractor. This one's obviously a residential-owned tractor that's been cared for.
Just be conscious of the (cosmetic) achilles heel of these tractors: the hood hinges. These older GT series almost always have the hood cracked at the hinges. My hood has two positions: closed or sitting next to the tractor while I check the oil. This one looks solid; well maintained and obviously kept indoors.

Thanks for the heads up on the hinges. The current owner did keep it garaged, and the first owner was a friend that supposedly treated it well also. Unless there's some major surprise when I go to pick it up, I'm sure I'll be very happy with it. Thanks again for the initial heads up.

I've been following one of the other posts you're involved in and read that you picked up two snowblowers for your GT262 new in the box for $300? Correct? Still have an extra one you want to get rid of? I'm not sure if it'd be economical shipping from NJ to MI, but I'm interested. If you do want to sell it, let me know what your zip code is (mine is 49058) and maybe we'll work on the shipping and price.

I don't mind plowing snow but blowing the snow is so much better!

Well I just typed a lengthy response about how I'm on the fence between just keeping it and selling it at the start of next winter to get a better price, and invited you to PM me your offer at another tractor forum, where I'm also marineguy, but apparently that causes it to crash and delete your message. How inconvenient!
One more attempt: PM me at my trackter forom dott comm

Sorry to bug you again about this, but I couldn't find your post on the other forum. Could you email me a link to it? mkaiser@hfgp.com What's 'PM' mean? Probably answered in the other post, but was this blower made for teh GT262? Does it require other parts to mount it to the GT262?

Found the correct forum and your thread.

So let me ask ...

What is wrong with the lawn chief - is it something(s) that is simply going to be cost prohibitive to fix ? Compared to laying down $2,$3,$4k down on a new tractor with a blade (or snow blower attachment).

After all - you already have the blade (or snow blower attachment). Thats not going to be cheap to replace with a new ride.

You may also wish to factor in, with regards to buying used there is a 50/50% chance that your going to be repairing someone else's problem(s) on an already expensive purchase.

Even if its the motor that's non-repairable - with a little hunting you could still easily replace the motor somewhere around $300-$700 ... Plus fix a few other things that might be broken or near worn out ?

If yours is fixable at good price (compared to the $4k new option) then why not fix it?

Some (a lot) of the box store units are not going to survive your routine (at least like your lawn chief did).

Fix the lawn chief ? Whats wrong with it ?

either way - good luck to you.

Well, the lawn chief is DEAD, had many repaired parts on it, was hand fabbing my own repair parts for it, .... It was time.

Did you read the entire thread, I plan on replacing the lawn chief with a John Deere, that's like replacing a Yugo with a Ferrari, OK, maybe a Yugo with a Cadillac. I'm going to a bigger, much better, tractor with blade and chains, for $1,250. Gotta have some common sense too, know what you're looking at, don't buy it if it's not worth it.

Thanks for the thought but I've had my fun with the lawn chief, time for something different.