I have finally figured out what works the best for me is to keep most of the tall perrenials at the back, some shorter ones and annuals in the middle and shorter annuals in the front and a few perrenials in the front, there of course you have to watch the heights of the plants by the stakes that come in the flats etc or by looking in the gardening catalogs they send you. Been doing this for 30 years and so far have always been happy with it. Colors are up to you, I get alot of compliments on the gardens I have 4 in the back and across the front. Mostly I plant what I like and consider the light and the shade too. Good luck and be sure you enjoy it or its not fun anymore. Tricia

Designing a perennial border is a difficult skill to master, even for professionals :-)) I don't know of many gardeners that haven't gone through a similar process of digging up and moving things around and nearly constant tweaking to get it "just right". My ex used to joke that my plants should come equipped with wheels, I moved them around so much.

A couple of thoughts when it comes to placement: consider more than flowers when combining various choices. Look for those that offer good foliage attributes and a variety of contrasting and complimentary textures, forms and growth habits. And try to limit the number of colors used in a single planting area - too many colors results in the "box of Crayolas" look or a hodgepodge that draws the eye all over without focus. Typically, I select three colors that compliment each other and use them in a variation of tones (orange, peach and apricot or purple, lavender and mauve can all be considered a single color). Don't forget to consider the 'green' of foliage in all its permutations as a color element as well. Avoid the "one of" syndrome - a collection of individual and different plants generally has little visual impact and will create the same effect. Plant in groupings that have weight and substance. Repeating plants or plant forms and colors throughout a planting area will create cohesiveness and unify the plantings. One of the tricks I teach in the classes I present is to start with 3-5 plants that look good in combination - either their colors or foliage or forms play off of each other, creating a little vignette. Then select one of those players and develop another combination of 3-5 plants and so on and so on. It doesn't hurt to repeat one or more in any grouping.

Good advice from gardengal. Also, if your border is 90 ft long and "not very deep", that may be part of the problem. And if you use shrubs as well as perennials, they'll be less work involved in cutting back and eventual division and the combos will be more interesting.

Final point, no matter how long perennials bloom, you still have more non bloom time than blooms, so the color and texture of the foliage becomes very important. Too many plants of fine leaf texture can really be improved by some plants with large leaves. And purple, blue, and yellow foliage add a lot of interest even when nothing is in bloom. Shape of the flowers and plant itself are also important. For exampale, all daisy type plants can get very boring. As for plant shape, think of the lovely contrast between something like the domes of Sedum 'Autumn Joy' and grasses like Miscanthus. (These have good leaf texture contrast as well.)

I had never been happy with my perennial beds either. I have turned to shrubs to form the bones of my gardens. I got interested in old roses (which often just bloom in late spring), and that led to an interest in other shrubs. I use perennials in, aroun, and in front of the shrubs and I think one day it will come together.

Although I have great soil and know a bit about plants, I too have had lots of problems with design! I have read tons of stuff but have trouble relating the info to by unusual situations. When I drive by other people places, I can easily tell what's wrong, though! I will probably always be more of a plant lover / collector than a designer.

Excellent advise from the above posters. I agree with gardengal that we all do a certain amount of moving around (every year). I think part of this is due to the fact that every time you try a new plant (and if you're a beginner, that's every plant), you have to grow it awhile to see what it will contribute to the border, how big it gets in your climate, etc. As you become familiar with a plant, you begin to know where it needs to be, and that almost always involves moving it somewhere else.

The big myth of the perennials movement is that perennials are no maintenance plants. Nothing could be further from the truth, but for most gardeners, the pleasure is in the process.

I agree that your border sounds entirely too narrow. If possisble, you could plant a nice group of one or two shrubs in about 20 to 25 feet of it on either end, thus reducing the perennials area to about half, and then extend your perennial border deeper, to say, 10 to 12 feet, and plant a shorter bed. Just as an example, you could plant a mass of rose bushes on either end (each bush is going to take a minimum of 3 to 4 square feet, so it won't take many), or hydrangeas, or spireas, or ornamental grasses, etc. You could plant one type on one end and another type on the other, change up the color of blooms or foliage on each end, etc. Just plant at least 3 to 5 of like shrubs (like gardengal said) to avoid a polka dot look.

I also use shrubs in my perennial borders, and they really add alot to them. The evergreens give some structure in the winter, the variegated and colored foliage shrubs add color for the entire season, and they take up space. Typically, a nice shrub costs about the same as or only a bit more than one nice sized perennial. If you want to reduce your work load, adding shrubs is a great way to go.

Hello...

Sorry to take so long to get back here, yesterday just got away from me.

Tricia, you are right, I am feeling like it is not fun right now and that is a first for me. I don't like this feeling at all! I am thinking though, that once the spring rush of moving and cleaning things up is over and something starts growing/blooming, maybe I will feel better.

To all....I actually have been gardening for 25+ years, but I stuck with primarily vegetable gardening for the first 15. Then I spent about 5yrs not gardening much at all and then started trying to renovate the entire backyard about five or so years ago. I did have a small full sun perennial garden in the front near the driveway, which was only about 15ft x15ft that I had a lot of fun with for about 7years. So really, if I look at it that way, I really don't have a lot of experience with borders and perennials and definitely mixing shrubs and perennials together is a new thing altogether too.

I sort of assume that most gardeners move things, but non gardening family members have this odd expectation that once you plant it, it is going to stay there. Since they have never actually attempted a garden of their own, they don't understand the dynamics. I think I have been moving more than most lately, though. [g] I have been surprised at how many different variables there are to consider, in gardening. I do find it hard to keep all of them in mind when coming up with decisions about where to place things. The color, the bloom sequence, the soil needs, the sun exposure, moisture, foliage color, texture. Someone once compared it to working a jigsaw puzzle, but a jigsaw puzzle seems like a cakewalk to planning a perennial border. lol

Gardengal....I do like your idea of 3-5 plant groupings and repeating those etc. I think you may have suggested that to me last fall? I planned on spending the winter using that approach to plan my beds, then some unexpected projects came up that took up all my time and I never had any time to really plan it all out before spring has sprung, so I am scrambling again. So, now that it is prime moving season I feel forced to have to move now and ask questions later because I have also been caught leaving something in the wrong position too long and then it is so large, it is a job to move it. Some of my shrubs are just starting to leaf out.

I have a lot of plant material. I did fairly good research to choose what will work in my conditions, I just haven't put them all together in a way I am happy with yet, and I haven't finished getting everything I need. I do have two areas of the yard, that we completely reworked last year that I feel hopeful that when they bloom this year, it will come together and be pleasing to me. If that happens then it will encourage me to keep working on the rest. One area just needs a little adjusting of a few plants that are too close together and some minor preparation for the season, so I will see how that goes. I don't seem to have any problems with color.

My long border is where I am focusing my attention right now. Laceyvail, I did measure with my feet today when I was out there and it looks like in the middle, the border is 9ft wide. I have a photo from last year early in the spring that gives an idea of what it looks like...

{{gwi:210469}}

This is about 2/3s of the border showing in the photo. As you can see the veggie garden is part of the reason it is not deeper. I have limited areas of full sun and trying to have it all I guess. Right now, I just don't want to start pulling it all apart because it has only been in place two years and it was a lot of work just to get it to this point. I imagine in a couple more years, I may be willing to move that veggie bed and pull the border out 3 or 4 more feet.

I actually have shrubs and grasses in the bed already, but I am sure now that I have put in too much and some things already clearly don't work. One Oakleaf Hydrangea did not like the location and hasn't bloomed in two years so that is moving. I have two Ninebark SSWine, one is in a great position, but I decided I need more of a screen in one end of the border that the Ninebark is just not going to work. I am pulling that out and planning taller narrow conifers instead. I had a Miscanthus Morning Light but I put it too close to a Butterfly Bush and what a mess that made. A Knock Out Rose that is also too close to the BBush. Down the other end, which is visible in the photo, I have another Ninebark, Dart's Gold which is quite chartreuse. I have some variegated iris and some Nora Leigh Phlox for variegation. So I seem to be trying to put some of these approaches to use so why am I not happier with it? [g]

Actually, I settled on a plan since I posted, to continue with an idea I've had for the middle section. I have these gorgeous Delphiniums that had nothing behind them but the stockade fence last year and they really needed something more. I had a Sambucus Black Beauty that is not performing in another bed that I am going to move in position behind the delphiniums. Not sure I am going to have room, but I am going to try it and see how it looks this year. What I like about Sambucus in a border is that you can cut it back hard in the spring and so the size is more manageable. I already suspect I won't like the black behind the Delphiniums, but I can't think of anything else at the moment and maybe I will like it.

We also moved the Ninebark DGold further back in the border so I should be able to continue down the border with a few more Delphiniums in front of it, to bring more cohesiveness? We placed another row of pavers and potted up about a dozen plants that have to go somewhere else. So once I get all the plants in place in the middle, then the Gate section will be my hardest, because that is where the need for screening is just complicating things and I am ripping everything out and changing the whole thing around.

Well...I've managed to write a novella and I apologize. Maureen, I wouldn't be surprised if I simplify things for myself and drop back to more shrubs if the plans I am trying now don't work out for me. I'm glad to know I am not the only one who struggles with design! I think I am more of a plant collector too, but I enjoy a good design, if someone else created it maybe? [g]

Donna, I am coming to the same conclusion that although I love perennials, I might have to accept that they may be more maintenance than I can manage. I am willing to give it a few more tries of making it more manageable. If not, then I will have to host a swap. :-) I love evergreens, but can't seem to figure out any that fit my need to screen the neighbors, up to 10ft and have a footprint that doesn't take up half of one end of my bed.

So, is the consensus that my beds are not deep enough?
Another question I have, is how do you keep from placing shrubs in the back behind perennials without lining them all up in a straight row that looks awful?

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my frustration with my garden. I really appreciated all you have shared and I am going to keep trying to put it all into practice and hope I come up with something. :-)

pm2

Hi,
From your description of shrubs, it appears that you've chosen deciduous ones with not very strong forms. I mean by that they have shrubby branches, not strongly horizontal like some viburnums. Also, you've mentioned conifers or evergreens, which I noticed are absent from the border. Yes, the border needs mass, something to tie the planting to the ground. There are so many beautiful plants the only problem will be which to choose. Can you add a curve to the border? A deeper curve would accomodate an evergreen which is slow growing. Have you ever heard of the designer who integrates vegetables and perennials together? I wish I could remember her name, but maybe someone else will. I wonder if there is some way to actually unite your veggie garden and the border, so there will more of a feeling of relationship rather than a sharp division? I can't help but think that the close proximity of the vegetable garden affects the way you view the perennial bed. I know I am not being very specific in my suggestions, but I am spacially challenged myself. Keep us posted.

I just wanted to say how much I sympathize with you. :)
Perennials really are a lot of work. I have 2 very large borders and another 15 foot border. I just got done raking all the leaves out, they need mulched, and then to edging.

I have been tweeking the one bed for 5 years now, and it is still not how I want it. The other 2 are not even close. I'm focusing on perfecting one. I have found that by grouping the same plants togther and resisting the buy one everything syndrome, the look has improved. Also, by mixing in some plants with bigger leaves, it doesn't look so messy.
One problem I have is too many daisy shaped flowers, plants that flop, and a bare winter bed. sigh. However, I do get compliments from nieighbors, and walkers, so I guess they don't see all the imperfections...
Right now I'm happy with helen von stein lambs ears as a front plant that repeats the whole way down the border. I like the broad leaves. and it looks neat. I did have assylum for a front plant and it was too messy for me.
Anyway, I am rambling... just wanted to say I feel your pain. ;) jody

pm, I like the border. Its got lots of potential. I appreciate this problem a lot. I see it in my border too.

I also use lambs ear in front in my long sunny border in a few places. They trail over the stone edge nicely and tie things in. I've also been experimenting with hosta that tolerate sun well to add a large leaf component to the mix. The results aren't in yet on which hosta do the job. I also am always on the lookout for dark leaved annuals to throw in to help things or just a purple fountain grass. I've also been contemplating adding a conifer or two somewhere to add some structure and also to start the (slow!) transition to a less maintained area in the (far!) future when I am too old to deal with this.

Hello....

Well, spring is really here it would seem. The middle of April already, so I am trying to shake off this overwhelmed feeling and get with it. My oldest son helped me in the garden yesterday morning and we got a number of things moved. Certainly was encouraging to check off a number of things off the list. I was pleasantly surprised that the shrub I was most anticipating to be difficult was not so bad at all and the rest were actually easy. Everything still looks a mess with a lot of work still to do, but, I am trying to adjust my expectations. I even went so far as to look up 'perfectionist' in the dictionary the other night...lol. I just got to wondering, since it seems to take things being pretty close to perfect before I am satisfied, am I being too picky? I was quite reassured that even though I do seem to have honed my critical eye a little too sharply, that I often am quite capable of accepting a lot less than perfect and do so on a regular basis. I think I have been pretty patient with the process too, up to this point.

I don't know if anyone else has this daydream or not, but I keep waiting for that spring, when you walk out into your garden and it is all just bursting with green and blooms. Everything that you look at satisfies your eye and nothing is screaming out to be finished. Maybe it's not mature yet, but it is not under construction either. Then you just spend the whole gardening season just tinkering and deadheading and watering and nothing more. You bring in armloads of flowers for vases and there is at least one area of the garden that is spectacular every month. You spend at least half of your time in the garden just sitting reading a book, listening to the birds. :-) I didn't expect this year to be that year at all, but something about the state of things this spring made me question if I will ever reach that point. I really have no ambition to be on a garden tour and I do enjoy the creating process, I just would like to think I could reach some major gardening goals while I can still enjoy them. lol I haven't quite gotten my equilibrium back but I am sure I will.

My son actually tried to cheer me up the other day, when I admitted how I was feeling. He told me I should go back and look at photos of what the yard used to look like. He reminded me of the amount of work we have done so far. The area where the veggie beds and long border are now, was an old vegetable bed that was an overgrown mess. Perennial weed grasses that we fought with for years we had given up on. We had pruned a ton of tree saplings and overgrown shrubs and piled the branches on top of that area. It was a huge job by the time we got to it. He also told me that everyone was enjoying the garden, evidently despite the fact it isn't perfect. :-) I was very surprised and it did cheer me up.

I know this is a long post, but I thought there might be some gardeners here that could identify with some of what I am feeling this spring and how I am resolving it.

Idabean....I realize about myself that at the core I am a plant collector, despite the fact that I really dislike the look that you end up with if you don't reign that in. I fall in love with plants. [g] All of my shrubs are new to me and I am enjoying getting to know them. I do have one horizontal viburnum in another part of the yard, which will get too large for a border. I think you are right, it needs mass. Being on a budget, I purchase small shrubs, which I hope will become 'mass' at some point. No, I don't think I have heard of that designer who integrates veggies and perennials? I am hoping this year to add some small slow growing conifers to this border somehow. Yesterday, we moved one very vertical Juniper from a front foundation position to anchor one end of this long border, so that is my start with that. I only have one end that is really sunny enough for conifers, the other end is shady from 1pm on and the middle is half and half. I am keeping my eye out. I had Adrian Bloom's 'Gardening with Conifers' home from the library recently. Wishing there was a local nursery dedicated to conifers. I LOVE them too, I just don't have as much sun as they say you need. My problem seems to be I LOVE everything..lol.

Jody....sounds like you would like to realize my daydream too. :-) In my 'perfectionist' search the other night, I was reminded to continue to enjoy the 'acts' of gardening and let go of that 'big picture' that I keep trying to achieve. I think I have to turn off that 'critical eye' more often too. It gets to be a habit. So that is what I am going to try to do. I have some Helen von Stein Lamb's Ears hiding under a rose. I will have to try them along the edge. Good idea, thanks. Sorry to hear you are having the same struggle. :-(

Wendy...thanks so much for seeing the potential of my border! You do realize I posted the photo of it from it's best side only [g]? All that purple was a huge patch of Honesty last year, that will most likely be much smaller this year. Having a border this long with different amounts of sun is a little bit of a twist to work with too. I can definitely use the Hostas in the shadier end. I am on the look out for a few more. I was on a dark foliage kick for awhile but I haven't found a way to incorporate them yet, that I am thrilled with. One of these days, something exciting is going to work out. Yes, the evergreens will help lower the maintenance. Let me know what you find that works for you. Varying amts of sun and eventual size is the bugaboo for me.

Thanks for all your responses, I appreciated the commiseration a lot! :-) I will come back and post more photos once I get all my moving done and get it at least presentable. Maybe all of you can post your best photos of your border as the season continues? I would love to see them. I hope we all make progress in getting where we are trying to get to this year! :-)

pm2

You need grasses in that border. It would add fall and winter interest too.

the items you have chosen are nice in the spring photo, but blunt honesty in my opinion is you will never be happy with it as it stands now. The overall view is too disjointed, what with the stockade fence, the neighbors background white fence, the slit rail fence--it's all very distracting. Me? I would block the distracting neighbors with a matching stockade across the back. Then work on pulling the area as a whole together. While the springtime border is pretty it is 'smashed' up and out of the way so to say with the veggie garden taking away from it. I'd blend them more together so they would exist n harmony together, not as two seperate things going on within feet of each other. I think you know exactly what you like and are putting things together in the small border in a manner that would work well if you worked now on pulling it all together: stop the back view, blend your perennials to melt in with your veggies (end a veggie verses flower), height, focal point, evergreen, prairie grasses, a path/walkway mingling throughout your overall ( stop and smell the rose while you harvest your beans so to say) ect. Last recommendation would then be to spread your stones out and when you do, partially bury them and then use your creepers with them-spreading meaning right now they remind me of little soliders lined up and plopped on the ground. I would use them instead in small areas through out the whole design so it is a more natural look . I would not be as quick to pull out and more as I would be now to connect and finish the area into a pleasing whole.

hi justmetoo....thanks for your honest opinion. Just what I was looking for. :-)
If you think that view is disjointed, you should see what I have to look at facing the other end of the border. [g] I have one issue that influences the back lot line. A small completely fenced in yard gives me a slightly claustrophobic feeling. The split rail fence allows me a borrowed landscape of sorts that although at the present it has some elements that are distracting, I am hoping to screen with shrubs that will allow for a more open feeling. Besides a lot of what I don't want to look at would still be visible above a 6ft high fence. I doubt very much that I will replace with a solid 6ft fence along that lot line. The particular corner of the lot in the previous photo is directly under a maple, so I am having a hard time figuring out what shrub/s I could place there that might grow and fill in the corner for a screen. Right now I have placed a small Ilex glabra as a test for this year and see how it does. If it did well, I could put a group of them there with something decidious that might give me a 5-6ft height? I might want to add a taxus, but they are so slow growing. Maybe a Rhododendron might do the trick. I would be happy to fill that whole corner with a 'mass' of plant material.

Not sure what you meant by 'smashed up' in reference to the border...but I think I am following you when you point out that the veggie garden and border are fighting against each other? Along the lines that idabean was saying. Idabean, I hope you remember the name of the designer you were thinking of. Following along with that line of thinking, veggie gardens are pretty practical and getting in and out of the small raised beds needs some space around them to keep working access....wheelbarrel access. Someone suggested adding bays to the long line of the border that would move into the veggie area and I am mulling that over. I do seem to view the long border in thirds, so two bays where the 'thirds' meet might work. Using bays would bring the perennial border into the area that the veg beds are, more. I might be able to do that more artfully and still leave the access to the beds. I can also try to prettify the veggies growing in the beds as much as possible, which is always a goal. I'll have to give some thought to perennial/vegetable combos too.

Height..budget has kept purchases small, so hoping that will become less of a problem. Focal Point...will give that some more thought. Evergreen I am working on and I have some grasses ...Indian Grass, Little Bluestem, Pennisetum Hamelin, some Carex. Not placed correctly yet. A path through the area...definitely have been planning that just not there yet. Interesting idea about the stones. The purpose of the stone edge, was to raise the bed up a little. I couldn't raise it too much because I was afraid of the root zone of the neighbors trees not appreciating changing the soil level too much, but many of the plants I wanted to grow needed good drainage. I am not crazy about the look of the edging. The rocks were given to us free and I would prefer something flatter, consistently colored and two layers, but I am making do for the time being. I like your idea of more natural rock arrangements...but conflicting with the practical for me again, which is how to raise the soil without something to hold it. I do have clay soil and everything grows a lot better with even that small elevation. I am going to come back to that edging and see if I can't improve it. Might not be a 'this year' project, but if I can finish some other things and could concentrate on that next year, I might be able to do something really much better with it.

A few more photos looking in the opposite direction along the border a little later in the season.

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{{gwi:210473}}

View over the veggie garden in late July, the border behind the veg beds ends in the corner where the two fences meet.

{{gwi:210475}}

That has given me a lot to think about, thanks. A number of good ideas to think about from everyone. :-) If anyone has more, keep them coming..!

pm2

prairiemoon, i can't tell you how much i am enjoying this whole conversation! ... you are inspiring me to look at my gardens of five yrs. in a whole new light ... thanks to you & all the wonderful ideas given here by the posters who have answered ...

you have expressed some of the exact concerns i am having right now in *pulling* everything together that i have been *collecting* over this 5-yr. adventure ... i feel i have accumulated a lot of shrubs & perennials that please my eye, but now i need a better structure for the *bones* ...

i have quite a number of shrubs that i have temporarily sunk into the ground (in their original pots) ... some for 2 yrs. ... obviously, i am a *collector* too! (grin)

phyl

Hi Phyl!

I have a feeling there are a lot of plant collectors on GW, what do you think? ;-)

What is funny to me is that at my age, I am still learning things about myself. Some pretty obvious things actually that didn't always occur to me. Like that I am a detail person. I have a lot to say and I only recently figured out that I have a lot to say because I am wired to see so many of the details. I have a feeling that is why I am a plant collector too. All the little details of each plant grab me I guess. Which would mean that we probably need someone who sees the big picture without the distraction of the details, to help us get the overall design in the garden. I wonder how many people on the forums consider themselves to have an easy time with the design end of things?

I imagine there are a lucky few who are strong in both aspects.

Thanks for posting, glad to see there are a few of us here with the same issue. I never know if my 'long' conversations get a little boring for people. Hope it is helping and if you get stuck, I highly recommend posting some photos and asking for input.

:-)
pm2

Hi Prairiemoon,

No, I dont think this is boring; I think itÂs all pretty much on target for most amateur gardeners. I relate!

Ten years ago I lost a friend to breast cancer. I had cared for her for 10 months straight. A few days after her funeral I felt as though I was not just bereft, but out of businessÂunemployed by life. So, on a hot July morning I ordered 14 cubic yards of soil and the next day in 95 degrees I shoveled all of it by hand and built a 37 x 22 ft perennial garden and bordered it with left over field stone. I call it The Philosophy Garden; it has its own garden sign. In went 112 Stella dÂoro lilies, peonies, heuchera, artemesia (silver mound), walkerÂs catmint and everything else to fill that space that looked good to me that I could afford or pilfer from neighbors who were tossing stuff. The next year was wondrous. Heaven on Earth! The following year it rained for 3 straight weeks in June just before a heat wave filled July. After a week of hand pulling the strongest weeds on earth in August, I vowed to my chiropractor that I would shorten the garden and act like a responsible "mature" woman instead of a head-strong going for the Olympics contortionist.
{{gwi:210477}}.

The garden is now an encircled by cobble stone 15 feet of what else can I put in here? space. I understand your plight, Prairiemoon. And, like you, I will keep wrestling with it because my Philosophy Garden lets me know who and where I am in life. Not an expert in any field, but I will try and try and try till it looks right to me. After hand shoveling 49 yards of soil on my ½ acre over the past 10 years, like you, IÂve discovered a lot about myself in the garden and content myself knowing that it is a process  just like life. Thanks for sharing your garden. Personally, I think your whole area looks like the product of someone who knows how to make things live. IsnÂt that the point?

Kindly,

Jane

Jane, what a nice surprise to see you here! :-)

First of all, let me say that I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. Even after ten years, I am sure you still feel the hole. She must have been very close to you to be so involved in her care. Such a frustrating way to lose someone. I can't think of a better way of dealing with grief than to wear yourself out physically doing something that will be a memorial for someone you care about's life. :-) Your photo is striking. Seriously, to me it is so cheerful, with that gorgeous white fence that reminds me of one of my favorite places, Williamsburg, the solid screen above it and that mass of yellow blooms! I hope you can think of happy memories of your friend every time you see it and not the grief you must have felt while you were making it. Did she enjoy gardens? So do I understand that this is a photo from when you first created it and is it smaller than this now? You did a great job and I love it! You have a good eye which should serve you well in your garden.

Sounds like you were forced to learn something about your own physical limitations after that effort. [g] Unfortunately, we don't have much choice with that one, and I know that one well. Of course, I hope you didn't hurt yourself making the garden, and yes, I suppose you could have created the same thing in a way that was a little easier on your body, but still... :-)

Thank you Jane. So glad you posted. You always come across on the page as someone I was talking to over the backyard fence and that is not easy to do in the backyard or on the forums. I really got the message you sent my way today and I already feel better. :-) I really appreciate your kind spirit.

pm2

pm:
someone on the vegetable gardening forum remembered the name:
Rosemary Creasy. Try google, the library or amazon. Good luck!

Rosemary won't get you anywhere. It is Ros

Hi PM2,
Yes, the garden was shortened by 22' and narrowed by 7'. I gave away a lot and reserved lots of Stellas which are now being planted in front of the new rhodys on my side border (where the pines stood). Funny, but definitely perennial, in my Philosophy garden I found 3 pine seedlings - first time ever. Gone, but not forgotten. Yes, gardenweb is a wonderful worldwide, back yard fence. But I find no help here for my addiction here - off to the garden centre tomorrow for more perennials, hahahaha.

I loved reading all that good advice and I really loved looking at your garden pix! I really had to laugh (at myself) when I read about your dream of having the "perfect garden" one day. ONE DAY is all I really think I'll get! Everything looks great for a while, and then things stop blooming and there are empty spaces. Then somehow the next couple of weeks aren't as great, maybe there's no rain, too much rain , bugs, etc, etc. Not to mention what I liked a few years ago is now old hat, maybe boring.
I think most gardeners, probably all, like looking at other peoples gardens. Open house garden tours are the best! I try to decide just what it is that calls to me when I see an especially beautiful garden, and try and pull something I can use out of it. So that's my advice, keep looking and analyzing. But remember that those people on the garden tour, probably have a peak time for beauty and that's when you're invited!