Hi Susan: It depends on what type of soil you have: clay, loamy, or sandy. If you have heavy clay like mine, I don't recommend ocean-products like kelp .... they are high in salt.

Nik in the English Roses Forum alerted me with the danger of clay soil already fertile and high in salt. The higher your pH, the higher the salt. Animal manures is high in salt, and all chemical nitrogen fertilizer, esp. urea is high in salt.

If you check the picture of "Sweet Promise" spray I posted in my thread "Your Spray of Roses", you'll see a yellow/brown leaf ... that pic. was taken in hot summer. That's salt injury from my using high-nitrogen NPK of 10-5-4, plus horse manure.

Gracin from Florida once posted a picture of rose leaves with yellow/dark brown spots. They are salt-injury, perhaps from the cow-manure? See the below link for salt injury picture of leaves:

Susan, what part of nutrient you hope to achieve? N, or P, or K (potassium) , or calcium? Please let me know, hopefully I can find an organic alternative lower in salt.

Here is a link that might be useful: Picture of salt-injury on leaves

I was checking on the NPK of Kelp on the Kelp4Less website. It's 1-0-10 for organic Kelp, high in potassium.

For a better source of potassium, plus sulfur (lacking in alkaline clay), check out Sulfate of Potash, much lower in salt, with a salt index of 0.85. Symptoms of potassium deficiencies are:

* Slowed growth

* ‘Tip burn' and marginal chlorosis / necrosis on more mature leaves

* Weak stem and stalks
* Small blooms and small fruits.

Symptoms of sulfur deficiency in plants are:

Sulfur improves root strength and growth of plants as well as the aroma and taste of fruits and vegetables. Sulfur is frequently referred to as the fourth major nutrient.

Symptoms of sulfur deficiency in plants include:

* Slowed growth rate and delayed maturity

* Young leaves light green to yellowish color

* Small and spindly plants

Here is a link that might be useful: Sulfate of Potash for sulfur and potassium

Thanks! I believe I have some potash. I will check. I have a potted Phyllis Bide who looks totally chlorotic. I put her in the ground and she's not looking any better 10 days or so later...
Some areas of my garden are clay. I've been digging in it so long it's well-drained. But there are areas that are chunky.
I have no idea what the PH was in my pot. I used moisture control and Mills Magic Rose mix but it's really been too cool for organics to work...OH and I used some fish emulsion....
I need to do a PH on my soil. Duh. But I'm not the scientific type. How many areas should I test? I also have most of mine in pots. Should I test them?
Thanks Science Lady!
Susan

I have soft rock phosphate and jersey green sand. Thanks.

Hi Susan: I feel so bad for the Boston Marathon victims. I'm praying for them. My husband is a marathon runner, we met at a running club. Thank God we live in Chicagoland.

Here's the recipe for Mill's Magic Mix, so I can track down what cause your chlorosis:

•Posted by karl_bapst_rosenut 5a NW Indiana

This is a recipe for a fertilizer similar to Mill's Magic. It contains the same ingredients but the amounts may not be exact. It gives similar results.
Equal amounts of
Alfalfa Meal,
Fish Meal,
Cottonseed Meal,
Blood Meal,
Bone meal,
Milorganite or an activated sewage sludge.
I use 0-46-0 instead of bone meal as the bone meal is very dusty. "

I finish my post tomorrow, since my kid has to go to bed. Let's pray for the Boston Marathon victims .... they will be in my hearts today.

Hi Susan: Phyllis Bide is a cross of Perle d'Or and Gloire de Dijon. Gloire de Dijon is a Noisette. Noisette class includes Albas like Felicite Parmentier, and roses begin with "Belle".

The Noisette, including Albas prefer acidic soil. Phyllis Bide grows well for Tammy in Tennessee with acidic red clay ... It's best if you test the pH of your clay soil first using the procedure below that I wrote for the English Roses Forum.

If your soil is alkaline, even if you mix sulfur in, it won't take effect until 1 year later. I don't recommend sulfur since it kills earthworm. Even with acidic pine fines in, its pH lowering takes a long time. I would buy a bag of ALREADY acidic garden soil made for acid-plants and put that into the ground for Phyllis Bide.

If you want Phyllis Bide to green up fast, use blood meal (with chelated iron). Caution: too much nitrogen will stop Phyillis Bide from blooming, so it's not worth it.

Why did Phyllis Bide turn chlorotic in your pot? Let's consider:

1) Moisture Control potting soil: dense & wet stuff, less oxygen than the fluffy composted pine potting soil

2) Mills Magic Mix: Main ingredient is alfalfa meal. Alfalfa meal is document by BOTH University Extensions to cause chlorosis in marigolds and vegetable seedlings. It's a fine particle so it gunks up on top, blocking airflow from above. When plants are suffocated, they turn yellow.

Alfalfa meal did that to ALL my pots. Worst, the pH of alfalfa meal is acidic at 6, perfect for fungal germination. I get black spot with roses in pots topped with alfalfa meal.

Alfalfa meal NPK is 2-1-2, very little nutrients compared to sulfate of potash NPK of 0-0-50 (very high potassium). University of Mass. Extension documented most blooms, and biggest blooms with high potassium fertilizer, compared to smallest blooms, and less bloom with alfalfa pellets.

I still feel bad about the Boston Marathon bombing, with a 5-year old girl lost her legs.... life is full of pain, pray & love is the best we can do.

As to where to test your soil pH? Get 3 samples: one from the pot (to see what's applied changed the pH). One from AWAY from roses. One from deep at the bottom of the hole. Why? the top surface can be acidic thanks to alfalfa meal, but the bottom of the hole, where the roots are, can still be alkaline.

Use baking soda as the standard for alkalinity. If you can collect rain water, that's great. pH of rain water is 5.7 or lower. I would buy distilled water, pH of 7, then use 2 cups to boil red cabbage .... turned purple. I also boiled red cabbage in my own well water, pH 8 .... turned blue. Also boiled red cabbage in rain water ... that's pinkish violet.

Use hot cabbage juice boiled in distilled water to test 3 samples of soil from your garden (plus a sample of baking soda, another of a slightly acidic material). Compare those with the below:

1) red cabbage boiled in distilled water alone (pH 7)

2) cabbage boiled in your tap water (neutral to alkaline)

3) cabbage boiled in rain water (acidic)

Some municipal water-treatment put hydrated lime into their water so pipes won't corrode.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cheapest way to test soil pH using red cabbage

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Tue, Apr 16, 13 at 11:15