The USDA Zones only measure cold hardiness. So Zone 8b has an average annual minimum temperature of 15 - 20 degrees (Fahrenheit). If your average low temp is 40, then you are in zone 10, which is south Florida, Miami.

Here is the link to the Zone Chart:

Cold Hardiness Zone

The zones don't take humidity or drought into consideration. I know there are some Florida rose growers here on GW. I think their main issue is the soil in Florida, which is sandy, and the heat and humidity. It's not an ideal climate for roses, it's tropical. But you can grow roses there.

I wish there were a USDA zone map based on heat hardiness. Come to think about it, why isn't there one?

I think possibly the closest is Southern California - 9. I think that's what I thought at first & then got quite confused. I kept focusing on the heat & didn't realize the whole thing was based on cold hardiness.

Thanks :)

The American Horticultural Society has developed the Plant Heat Zone Map. You can view it as a pdf file, but you need Adobe Acrobat to open it.

Here is a link that might be useful: PDF file of the Plant Heat Zone Map

Here is a link to the zip code zone finder for the heat map, which was published in 1997:

http://www.ahs.org/publications/heat_zone_finder.htm

Here is a link to see a close-up of the AHS Plant Heat Zone Map by state.

Here is a link that might be useful: state by state heat zone map

How about going with European zones instead?

There, you would be/are Mediterranean. Mediterranean climate (according to a friend in France) is where citrus grows. That fits Israel according to a friend who lived there as a teenager and remembers the scents of the citrus groves.

If you can order it or borrow it from a library, I'd recommend "Roses et Jardins" for the information about old roses and how they fit in European zones. The author has published several books, but this is the one I found in Montreal and have been well pleased with it

Here is a link that might be useful: Roses et jardins

WinterCat - I agree that it sounds as if you are in a cold tolerance zone 10, with humidity. What kind of soil to you have? If I were you, I would look for some places in the US in zone 10 in the South where they have high summer humidity, and a similar soil, and look for local knowledge on here - people will respond when they know what area you are looking at.

Jackie

S. Calif is probably your best match, but to put it all in terms of roses: You can grow just about anything except rugosas and gallicas, both of which like a real winter break--and even those might be worth trying, but it's not where I'd first put my money. Dive in. Roses are tougher than you think and growing them is not rocket science.

Heat is important, but I think sun exposure more so. I grew up in the Northeast and now live in Georgia. Technically I only moved one zone up (from 6 to 7) but the sun is so much stronger here than in NY. We are at a higher altitude (1100 feet as opposed to sea level) and the summer is much longer. I simply can't grow many of the things that grow up in NY. I lost two lilacs last summer because it was so hot and dry.

That's why I have so many roses. They love sun and that's about all I have. If your summer average is 86, then you are a bit milder than we are here in the summer. My roses do tend to slow down in July/August, but we get a fall flush or two.

Wintercat, I checked your latitude and found that it is about 32 degrees north which is farther north than I am at 29 degrees, so you have a shorter growing season, your sun is not as strong as mine, and incredibly you have warmer winters than I do in zone 9 which I imagine is due to your proximity to the sea. Since your climate is humid (about like mine), I would compare it to the American coastal deep south, i.e., Savannah, Ga north to Charleston, SC. Their winters are a tad colder than yours with average lows in the upper 30's fahrenheit and summer high temps a bit higher than yours in the high 80's to low 90's. That would make you Zone 8 without the lowest lows and highest highs.

I think you would be safest with Teas, Chinas and Noisettes since they are evergreen plants and don't need to rest in winter. They certainly don't mind humidity, and I don't think they'd miss my five months of temps in the 90's. Your garden would be an eternal spring for them, and they'd be blooming year-round. Of course, there are other roses that would do well, but you'd have to experiment and determine their disease susceptibility. And we don't know for sure what your fungal disease pressure is. Israel is generally an arid region, right? but you have the sea air, so you should probably inquire about how bad black spot and other rose diseases are in your area. I think I'm safe in saying that your higher humidity does not guarantee high disease pressure.

Also, check your soil pH. These roses like pH from about 6.2 to about 7.0. If your soil pH is way above that, you could have a problem and should consider raised planting beds with new soil and organics avoiding the native soil altogether. If it's lower than that, it can be adjusted up with lime.

Pending results of your soil test, it sounds like you could have the perfect climate for a rose garden filled with my kind of roses. I wish you & your future roses all the best and please keep us posted.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Many many thanks to you all for taking the time and trouble to reply. It was a real help.

plantloverkat - The link to the AHS was extremely helpful to me - not only the wonderful heat map, but also the other useful info on that page, which I read with great interest. I checked the Israel Meteorological Service Site for number of days over 86 F a year, and discovered I'm in heat tolerance zone 8. Many thanks again.

anntn - Thanks for the link to the book. It looks quite promising.

Jackie - You're probably right & I'm in cold tolerance zone 10, but it seems to me now that cold tolerance is less relevant than heat tolerance (and humidity of course), for the simple reason that I never have snow & frost is quite rare.
My soil is alluvial, dark, heavy. I planted the roses right into it & so far (4 months) they're doing fine & setting lots of buds. I'm rather fond of this soil though in winter it turns into sticky paste-like mud % in summer it bakes into a hard crust of greyish brown & cracks (not a nice sight).

catrose - Southern California does fit the bill (Stockton is one of the places I found when I checked by heat tolerance). That said, I'm not sure about rose growing not being rocket science :)

mariannese - I emailed the Wohl Rose Park yesterday but they haven't replied yet. In any case, the climate in Jerusalem is different from mine. I don't think they're some sort of national rose org, but a local rose park, so I'm not sure they'd know about the coastal plain. However it was worth visiting their site because I discovered the garden has a special section for the blind with only highly fragrant roses whose names are set in braille.

Buford - Sorry you lost your lilacs. What you say about roses corresponds to what I hear about roses in Israel in terms of summer slumber.

Sherry - Savannah is also one of the places I found when I researched the heat tolerance map.
Fungal disease pressure here is enormous. In fact roses are notorious for fungal disease (and all other types of disease & pests), which deters many gardeners. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a gardener say he won't touch roses with a bargepole I could buy loads of roses.
Soil test is a good idea, and you warmed the cockles of my heart with your good wishes for me and my roses. I'll be more than glad to keep you posted.

Wohl just sent in their reply: California.

They said they, too, grow Comte de Chambord & other historic roses.

I suspect the Comte is far more comfortable in Jerusalem than he will be in my garden in a couple of months. We'll live and learn.

WinterCat, your soil sounds wonderful compared to my sand. Just don't let it dry out. That's bad for rose roots. I forgot to say that Teas, Chinas and Noisettes are quite disease resistant. Black spot is not a problem in my garden - except for the Chrysler Imperials and an HP - and it's not even the humid season yet. Nasty stuff that they get that the OGRs don't get.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Wintercat,
You,ve got a major discovery there in the fragrant rose list at the garden in Jerusalem. Any rose that is fragrance in y'alls kind of heat (and doesn't un-scent with the first strong rays of the sun) would be of great interest for many of us.
If you get that list, would you please share it?
Ann

Ann,

I wrote the park this morning, asking for a list.

In the meantime, here's a link to the tiny section on the Swiss Garden (designed for the blind) in the park.

Here is a link that might be useful: Swiss Garden

Wintercat, thanks, but I need to learn what to grow down here. The Natives always say that transplanted northerners need to forget about lilacs...but I can't!!!

Comte de Chamboard is a wonderful rose. And the scent is to die for. As Sherry said, teas are wonderful. They love heat and can withstand drought and are fairly disease resistant.

I have mostly clay soil, and even after it's amended, it can turn hard in the hot sun. The solution is to mulch it so that it will stay moist and pliable under the mulch and not dry out and turn to cement and crack.

Ann - I just got a reply:
"For example: Papa Meilland, Chrysler Imperial, Fragrant Cloud, Just Joey, Harmonie. However, in roses most of the volatile compounds are released mainly in the early morning hours (apparently the preferred hours for pollinators), so that in any case all roses emit less fragrance as the day progresses. They don't have a reason to 'waste' their fragrance for the benefit of us, humans".

I'm not sure this is a complete list of all the highly fragrant roses in the garden for the blind.

I'm planning to visit the park next month & will sniff as many roses as I can & note down their names for you.

From the reply I understand the roses are fragrant in summertime, but mostly in the morning.

Buford - I understand how you feel about the lilacs. When i was in London years & years ago it was May & they were in bloom. I simply crawled under (? I think it was under) one of them and sat there for a while (till I could smell nothing any more). How lucky the Brits are tolerant of eccentrics.