g'day jefferson,

before you bring soil or any like that in see if you can research its source, i've always preffered spent mushroom compost from the mushroom farm, found it to be consistant and reliable over the years, and in lots of cases lots more affordable.

we have pic's etc.,. on our site there may be some ideas there for you?

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

Hi. I think you could create a lasagna garden raised bed now (if you get an unseasonably warm day) or in early spring and plant directly in it.
If you google lasagna gardening or Patricia Lanza there are a ton of links. Here's one http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf582744.tip.html

And here is the video I stumbled on that made me read about it (I just love the monkey sounds while it loads).
http://www.monkeysee.com/play/12083-create-a-new-garden-bed-without-digging

PS What zone are you in?

Here is a link that might be useful: video of no-dig garden bed

You can buy "topsoil" in bulk, by the truckload, from a landscaper or a contractor. Generally, you will want to amend this soil with organic matter anyway....

While 'topsoil' is an option due to lower price, you also can expect to 'get what you pay for' in lower quality.
'Topsoil' to a contractor is different from the 'fill dirt' used at a construction site called 'select fill' by engineers - selected for its COMPACTION characteristic - of being mostly sand with enough clay to 'color' it, and make it 'tight'.

I don't recommended either one, for raised-bed plantings, since topsoil removed by contractors is usually NOT all just topsoil - but lower layers of poor soil mixed in too - depends on how deep the engineer required top layer removal on which to construct a structure.

My recommendation is to stay away from any soil that has not been tested for plant nutrient quality (which no contractor will do for 'fill').

Your best bet is to contact a local landscape company or plant nursery and ask for "planting soil" - along with the N,P,K nutrition and pH results from tests performed on THAT batch.

Most companies that test the bulk soils for sale (retail or wholesale to landscapers) don't send samples to labs (to expensive), but rather use on-site "quick-tests" - which are usually quite reliable in the hands of skilled personnel.

Don't get in a hurry. Take time to call people on the phone, and visit the ones that sound knowledgeable about the product you seek to purchase. It's a LOT better to get a soil that will meet your expectations - than to try and figure out what the soil 'needs' to perform (nutritionally).

On the other hand, do agree with joepyeweed about adding organics (compost) - so while you're on the phone, also ask about availability of FRESH bulk (not bagged) compost available in your area.
Feed stores can also be good contacts for local quality compost, since they sell food to (and know/talk to) local herbivore ranchers.

Robert

The year long fire ant treatment thing scares me. How long has it been since it was put down?

Unless your raised beds are raised very high and your plants are very shallow-rooted, your veggies still be putting roots into that soil. :/

jefferson2040 - Let's BACK UP for a moment......

The reason you stated for going to all the trouble and expense to install raised beds in the first place - is because you "dont trust" your existing soil.

I must say, that if you're going to raise vegetables for your family due to the high cost of vegetables, you're going about this "backwards" in my opinion.

Before you start buying border material and soil to put in it, you might want to spend only a few bucks to find out what your soil is, and have it tested.
Dig down 10"-12" in 6-8 places where you intend to plant veggies, mix it well, put a pint in a ziplock bag and take it to at least 4-5 plant nurseries.
Ask to talk to the Propagation Manager. Show them the bag of soil and say "what does this need to grow vegetable plants"?
If they DON'T talk to you about a soil test to find out first, before they try to sell you fertilizer for non-existent plants - say "thank you", turn around, and walk straight out the exit door.

Find a nursery than will test the soil for you, or go by your county agriculture extension agent and pick up a free soil bag, soil submission form, and soil-sample instructions sheet - follow them and get a sample in the mail. It'll cost you $25 for a Routine + Micro + Organics analysis - plus postage, but then you won't be GUESSING anymore. Better to find out what your soil needs before you find out you spent money you didn't HAVE to.

What kind of soil and how nutritive it is in the root zone below the beds, are the main issue. Unless it's friable (good tilth), my recommendation is to either till or garden fork (to at least loosen up surface compaction) or better yet (if you have time/energy), double-dig good soil organics down into the soil of each bed area first - remembering that it is lack of AIR in soil that is in many cases, the most limiting factor in planting results.

If you just want to spend the money for raised beds...
In order to make the high cost of raised beds more 'palatable', select vegetables to grow that are high-cost items in stores (such as bell peppers, and tomatoes) that produce a large harvest for the space (NOT cabbage, broccoli, corn, etc.) and that utilize as much vertical space as possible (cucumbers, pole beans, snap peas, etc.).
Also consider vegetables that you might allow to 'run' outside of the planting bed (such as butternut squash, watermelon, cantalope, honeydew, etc.) and don't be afraid to plant squash right on the bed's border so leaves/fruit can hang over.

Fire ant treatment, being an insecticide, should not be a concern for plants. There are, however, a (very) few that do give some soil microorganisms a hard time. Nor likely that earthworms would be affected. But then, root-chewing beetle larvae won't be either.

Robert

I am overwhelmed by the response from the wonderful people here in the forum, especially since I am so new to gardening and realize I am asking very basic questions. Let me expound upon my initial post to clarify some points and again, thank you all for your time and expertise.

I live in zone 9A (northeast Florida) and have begun this process (gardening) as a way to become more self sufficient and to continue an existence based in simplicity. It is also a way for me to teach my children what it means to be stewards of God's land. The raised beds were my first thought because it seemed easier to maintain (weeds, etc.) and I wanted to start off small. I began to construct the beds out of wood that I was given permission to take from a construction site (no cost to me and the wood was set aside to be burned). I have since changed my mind and am going forth with the beds out of cinder blocks (these will also be obtained without cost to me). I am learning as I go here, but my intent is to stay as "organic" as possible.

We had a pest control company put down Top Choice (a Bayer product) meant to control fire ants for up to a year for each of the last two years. The product is a granule that becomes immersed in the soil to act as a barrier. It was last applied over the summer (2008) and it still scares me to think of growing directly in this soil. I have friends who garden and have stated that, in general, Florida's soil is not the best in its' present state to sustain vegetables. These are just a few of the reasons behind the raised beds. I have done much research, but cannot seem to find information (until now) about how to proceed if you don't wish to use any of your existing soil. I would naturally like to keep costs down and the beds are not going to be that large (4 feet by 4 feet at the max with 3 beds), but I am assuming purchasing soil will not be an inexpensive proposition. I see that most lawn a nd garden centers sell soil, but I was unsure whether this was just fill or additives as opposed to a base.

Thank you again for the help!

The first thing you need to do is contact the people at your local office of the University of Florida USDA Cooperative Extension Service about having a good, reliable soil test done so you know what your soils pH is and what you might, possibly, need to do to get it in the range most all plants like, and what the base nutrient load of that soil is. These simple soil tests,
1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell.

5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.

Purchasing something called "topsoil" is usually a waste of your money since "topsoil" is simply the top 4 inches of soil anywhere. What most people think they are getting when they buy this "topsoil" is loam, a very good soil but not available everywhere and what they get is something very different. Around here you can buy some "state tested topsoil" that is simply the Lake Michigan beach sand to which some organic matter (dredged from a small lake) is mixed with some lime to make the soil pH 7.0, which is what the "state test" is for. There are a couple of other places that mix various materials to make a "topsoil" and I have seen some junk in those mixes, but like most sellers of "topsoil" most people simply scrape off the top 4 inches of soil from someplace and sell it to you, and most of that could be worse than what you have.

Here is a link that might be useful: UF CES

Jefferson, I think your plans are well thought out and very reasonable. If you are new to gardening, starting on a smaller scale makes good sense and regardless of the condition of your soil, raised bed planting offers a number of advantages.

It is quite possible to purchase and import a decent quality soil for your needs. It is done all over the country all the time and why it seems to consistently pose issues for some members of this forum is a constant source of wonder to me. If you live anywhere close to an urban or well-populated suburban area, you should be easily able to locate landscape supply companies that deal in bulk soil products. The majority of these offer quite decent products that will fill your needs. As soilguy has suggested, look for a 3 way planting mix rather than just asking for 'topsoil' - 3 way mixes typically have some sort of organic matter incorporated in them (composted yard waste, composted manures, etc.). For 3 4x4 beds you'll need somewhere around 2-3 cubic yards of soil, depending on the depth of the beds. In my area, 3 way planting soil goes for around $25-28 per cy delivered, so you should be looking at somewhere less than $100 for this project, maybe a lot less if you have the ability to pick up the soil yourself.

As to the ant control product, I'd not be overly concerned for several reasons: it is the same product (active ingredient) that is used in Frontline flea control on our pets, the active ingredient has a relatively short soil half-life (it is effectively dissipated by soil organisms), it is not significantly translocatable to plant tissue, so you won't be eating the residue in any measurable concentration and the raised beds pretty much negate any direct contact with the chemical anyway. I'd certainly avoid any new applications to the area you intend for the planting beds just to be on the safe side.

I, too, would not worry about the fire ant bait. At the same time I would take a slightly different approach to preparing the soil. I would not make raised beds but instead would cover the new garden area with several inches of mulch until planting time. The mulch will encourage the growth of beneficial soil microbes and those microbes will decompose any residual pesticides you might have. If you want to feed those microbes to better healthy, visit your local feed store and get any ground up grains, nut, or seed you can get. The application rate is 10-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Since 2002 I use mostly ordinary whole ground corn meal as my fertilizer of choice. Alfalfa pellets are second choice.

If you apply the mulch and fertilizer now, in three months your soil underneath will be completely different from the adjacent soil.

gardengal48,
I spent many years residing in the Avon Park/Sebring area, Lake Placid and Okeechobee, FL and my wife is from Jacksonville - so I do know that your z9 soil is capable of supporting wonderful veggie gardens, with inclusion of organic material, particularly compost.

On the other hand, almost all of my veggie plantings here on the Texas coast are raised-bed or containerized, and I use cinderblock almost exclusively - using a product called Quikwall to hold the dry-stacked blocks together without setting them in mortar.

Robert

Hi jefferson,

do you have lots of newapaper? When I read dchall mentioning "mulch", my $$ alarm beeped. Mulch cost something doesn't it?

dchall, do you think if the ground is covered by layers of newspaper first, could the newspaper function as a filter? Would it add an extra protection from whatever is down there in the soil? Just a thought.

Otis

"Mulch cost something doesn't it? "

That depends on what you use. Some mulch is completely free. I use things like newspaper and leaves. If you need a lot, you can call tree trimming places. Some of them will deliver a truck load of chipped trees. The good and bad is that they'll usually give you everything they have in the truck. It's good because it can be so much, but it's bad because it can be so much.

Filter? What? Maybe you misunderstand. What is down there in the soil are the beneficial soil microbes. You are not trying to protect anything. The mulch is there to allow the soil microbes to have a relatively constant moisture and temperature conditions to populate the soil. Then in the spring the soil will be in prime condition for a garden.

As to the cost, I believe the OP was going to buy topsoil and bricks. My suggestion eliminates the topsoil and bricks in favor of mulch. As bpgreen said, mulch can be free but it can also be beneficial. In my part of Texas we get plenty of "cedar" mulch (really a juniper everyone calls cedar). The cedar in Texas is a pest plant like Brazilian pepper is in Florida and kudzu is in Alabama. So using certain mulches can be a good thing for everyone.

dchall:

the OP was concerned about the stuff that was sprayed to battle the fire ants, was she not? And rather than putting the mulch right on top of that, I was merely suggesting to line the soil with layers of newspaper first, if she has lots of them, and they are free. Sort of like the lasagna gardening but not lasagna gardening.

The reason of my suggestion: I had an area in the front of the house that was full of weed where I have Rhododendrons and Azeleas growing. After weeding it, I wished I had put layers and layers of newspaper there before I put the black weed cloth down and put 5" of Hemlock mulch over it. By the end of summer the weed found ways to wiggle between the cloth overlaps and some even grew right through the cloth.
Anyway, that was in my life before GW. I have to redo the mulching and where I live, we have to pay for mulch.

Sorry for not living in a rural area where many things can be obtained for free. Even if I can get out there, there is no way I can haul stuff back in my car to my house/garden.

Otis

Otis,
What's kinda funny (in a way)... I live about 10 miles outside Colorado Springs, but it's pretty much prairie where I am, and we have very few trees. Other than horse manure, I get most of my OM in the city.

otis11, I misunderstood.

Free mulch is available from most tree trimmers. Living in the city is often better for these freebies.

dc:
thanks for the tip.
Otis