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full_bloom

Need some help, please?

Full_Bloom
13 years ago

Hi! Unfortunately, I don't get to the Garden Web a lot. But from past positive experiences, I just knew that you would be the experts to ask....

I need help picking two roses; a shrub rose & a climber.

In order of importance:

1) Must be winter hardy to zone 5 a/b

2) Must be disease resistant...especially to blackspot.

3) Would prefer fragrance

4) Would prefer repeat blooming.

As for the climber I would love something vigorous, though perhaps not quite as vigorous as my New Dawn or William Baffin. I tend to like pinks, magentas and peachy coral colors. I would like the climber to compliment the shrub roses that will be planted in the same area.

As for the shrub roses, I would prefer that they were more than 2' tall, but less than 5'. I would like the color of the blooms to compliment those of the climber.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions and asking a lot of the roses too...lol! But I have been researching and just can't seem to come up with good choices. I already have Carefree Delight & the original Knockout, so would like to try something else for this area.

Some of the roses choices I have come up with are:

Earth Song

Eden Climber (though I've read it's a bit tender)?

Tamora (though I read it's not disease resistant)?

and

Dublin Bay (though it's red, which would make it a little hard to find a shrub rose to compliment it, plus I read that it's a bit stingy with bloom)?

Help! What is your favorite shrub rose and why; your favorite climber?

Thanks in advance for your help. I will be watching for any suggestions you may have.

Eileen

Comments (21)

  • karl_bapst_rosenut
    13 years ago

    My Dublin Bay blooms it's heart out. I do keep it deadheaded so that helps. It's hardy, only dying back to 3-4 feet, and is disease resistant in my garden. Hardy repeat blooming disease resistant pinks for me are Clair Matin and Compassion. If you want one that stays green to the tips, Quadra or Ramblin Red, both fit the bill.
    I grow 30 hardy repeat blooming climbers, most dieback to 3-4 feet but come back strong by mid spring.
    Earth Song is great along with most of the other 350 shrub roses I grow.
    For color combos, I'm the wrong person to ask as I have a color deficiency. I just plant roses with no regard as to how the colors go together. So far no one has complained.

  • york_rose
    13 years ago

    If you're open to older classes of roses you might want to consider Stanwell Perpetual and Fru Dagmar Hastrup as possible shrub rose candidates. There's also a Buck rose named Carefree Beauty that might be worth your consideration. I have no personal experience with any of them, but know them all to be well regarded.

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  • york_rose
    13 years ago

    Viking Queen is another well regarded pink climber (with a flower not unlike New Dawn's since New Dawn is a grandparent, although the pink is darker).

  • predfern
    13 years ago

    Nahema is a nice pink fragrant climber from Delbard. It has survived two winters here. You can get it at rosesunlimitedownroot.com
    There are lots of shrub roses that have survived in my no spray garden without winter protection. Surprisingly, Evelyn does quite well. Rose de Rescht is a nice repeating OGR. My Earthsong takes a long time to come back in the spring and Tamora died. Quietness is good but not very fragrant. Sharifa Asma is extremely hardy and fragrant. Honeysweet is good but is only about 2'. Gertrude Jekyll and Abraham Darby are OK. Other hardy Austins are listed in the Austin catalog. Some Generosa roses also survive here.

  • Full_Bloom
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Karl...wow...30 repeat blooming climbers & 350 shrub roses! With that many roses - who would care about color coordination...the sheer beauty of all those roses in bloom would take anyone's breath away! But, in my small lot, color co-ordination has to be considered. :-) I will check out Clair Matin, Compassion, Quadra & Ramblin Red. Glad to hear you like Earth Song. Of your 350 shrub roses would you mind naming your top 5 favorites that have winter hardiness?

    York Rose...I'm open to anything and will check Stanwell Perpetual, Fru Dagmar & Viking Queen.

    Hi Predfern...good to hear the experiences of someone in the same growing area too. I have never heard of Nahema or Delbard...I will check them out. As well, will check out Evelyn (love DA roses, particularly ones with disease resistance)! Sorry to hear about your Tamora...the picks of it were so beautiful that I put it on my list, but then read that it wasn't disease resistant. I will definitely check out Rose de Rescht and Sharifa Asma. Would you mind telling me...what are Generosa roses?

    Thank you all for the input, I *do* appreciate it and will continue to check here for suggestions.

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    13 years ago

    Eden climber is a beauty that fits your requirements. However, it is not a heavy re-bloomer, but then lots of roses are not. It does re-bloom. One of the most beautiful blooms!

    If you want more pink, Viking Queen climber is as dependable a rose as you could want, and it meets all your requirements.

    There is nothing I can say against Earth Song--great rose--but the blooms, while colorful, are not overly interesting, but then that describes roses like Knock Out also: colorful but somewhat uninteresting individual blooms. For a very hardy, fragrant, disease-resistant shrub with more interesting blooms, try either Mayflower (pink) or for some color contrast, its close relative (or is it a sport? I forget) Susan Williams-Ellis (white). Those last two are David Austin shrub roses.

    Have fun picking!

    Kate

    Here is a link that might be useful: Susan Williams-Ellis

  • professorroush
    13 years ago

    Eden climber is not cane-hardy in my Zone 5 garden...dies back nearly to the ground every year. I don't grow it, but I hear that Crimson Sky is a bright red that might do well in this zone as a climber. And of course, there is always "Improved Blaze"...everything you want but the fragrance.

    For a shrub, Earth Song maybe, but it's a pretty bright pink...and fragrance is medium to low. I'd suggest a nice Austin rose of your color preference, or perhaps Carefree Beauty.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog

  • karl_bapst_rosenut
    13 years ago

    My shrub roses include about 30 hybrid rugosas. They would have to be the hardiest. I like Jen's Munk, any of the Pavement series, Morden Blush, Morden Centennial, Morden Sunrise, Habitat for Humanity, de Montarville, Champlain, Aloha (although a climber, it grows more like a shrub in my zone 5a), Earth Song-a grandiflora, and Blushing Pink Knock Out. The rugosas require little pruning while the others may require more depending on the severity of the winter and the snow cover.

  • predfern
    13 years ago

    Delbard roses are from France. Roses Unlimited has some including Nahema.
    http://rosesunlimitedownroot.com/new_page_4.htm

    Generosa roses are also from France. I have Sonia Rykiel (Blooms to die for), Mme. Paule Massad, Chantal Merieux, Martine Guillot (gets big put at back of garden) and Jardin de Viels Maisons. All have major winter dieback except Martine Guillot. Martha Stewart likes Generosa roses.
    http://rosesunlimitedownroot.com/guillott.htm
    http://www.marthastewart.com/article/modern-shrub-roses

    You can find out more about roses by going to:
    http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/index.php

  • Full_Bloom
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Hi Kate...thanks so much for the suggestions...surprised you didn't recommend Dublin Bay now that I see your moniker. :-) Well, Dublin Bay is still on my short list, but that Viking Queen is stunning and is now at the top of my list for climbers. I know what you mean about the Knockouts. I have the regular Knockouts out front which are great for dependable color and bullet proof (for me anyway). The area that I want the shrubs & climber for, however, will be close up views, so you're right, I want something more interesting. I *am* having a lot of fun picking and you guys have given me some great choices.

    Hi Professorroush...thanks for the link to your blog...it is very professional and informative. Enjoyed your sense of humor too. There is so much I want to check out at your blog and I'm sure I'll be doing that in the near future. Especially enjoyed reading about roses there. I did laugh reading your comments about Knockouts. I guess I'm in the opposing camp...lol! No I don't consider Knockouts to be beautiful *roses*, but they sure make a good statement if you are just looking for some colorful flowering, dependable shrubs. They have a place in my garden. :-)

    Rosenut...as soon as I saw Morden Blush...it was all over for me. I do believe it's the one I will be going with...it has everything I love, disease resistance, winter hardiness and beautiful flowers in a color I just love...Thanks so much for the recommendation.

    Predfern...thank for you for explaining what Generosa roses are...they *are* beautiful. I love Nahema...it's on the short list. I also like Rose de Rescht...the fragrance sounds wonderful. Thank you too for the link to HelpMeFind Roses and for a supplier. I looked up Sonya Rykiel and she is *gorgeous*...I can see why you love her, but they only list her as zone 6b hardy so may not be a good choice for me because I need a vigorous climber for that wall. I noted that you said the Generosas have major die back? How short does Sonya start the season for you each year and how tall will she get in one growing season?

    Anyway...just wanted to thank you all for all the insight. I've got a feeling it's going to be Viking Queen with Morden's Blush...but you never know...maybe I'll have to find some more space in the garden for the rest of the roses all of you have suggested. They are all right on the money for what I was looking for and I had no idea there were so many really beautiful choices. Thanks so much.

    Eileen

  • Terry Crawford
    13 years ago

    I'm in central Illinois Zone 5 and 'Thomas Affleck' is a great dark pink shrub rose that is pretty winter hardy and doesn't get very much winter dieback. It pretty much stays in bloom through the summer; another big plus. 'Carefree Wonder' also stays in bloom and is a clear pink and is very winter hardy and doesn't require any spraying.

    I grow over 300 roses and climbers...a few Delbards which have proven to be very winter hardy. My favorites are 'Henri Matisse' which is a striped red and 'Camille Pisarro', which is a mix of ivory, pink, and yellow.

  • Full_Bloom
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Sorry...me again.

    Kate...I wanted to ask you about the color pink of Viking Queen. From the picture I saw it was hard for me to determine the color. In the first pic I saw, she looked salmony pink, but in a picture I saw later she looked like a true, rich pink? Not that it matters, cause either way she is beautiful, but if she was salmony like the first pic; then I think she would look great with Morden Blush, but if she is more pink, I was wondering if she would look better with Rose de Rescht?

    Also like Compassion's color with Morden Blush...oh the pressure...lol!

    Terryjean...Camille Pissaro is really unique and very pretty and I'm thinking it would look great with the Dublin Bay climber I was first thinking of.

    I really need a bigger yard...lol.

    Again, thanks to you all!

    Eileen

  • york_rose
    13 years ago

    My understanding is that Viking Queen's pink veers to the purple (when it veers), rather than the yellow or orange. Clair Matin's pink veers to salmon (when it veers).

  • Full_Bloom
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you York Rose, that is just what I needed to know. So I'm thinking Rose de Rescht would be best with Viking Queen.

    Clair Matin is very pretty & feminine and a great color too. It would be high on my list, except that HMF says it's a zone 6b? Clair reminds me a bit of my Dainty Bess (who I love very much, but wish were just a tad hardier too). Dainty Bess has been growing in my garden for about 10 years w/o winter cover, but every year there is quite a bit of dieback. If Clair had that much dieback, she probably wouldn't be able to cover as much area as I would like. :-(

  • karl_bapst_rosenut
    13 years ago

    I grow Clair Matin in zone 5a. It dies back some but I'm still left with four feet or more of cane after spring pruning. By first bloom flush the bush has grown back almost to full size. Clair Matin blooms in many flowered clusters. Every time I've seen it entered in a rose show it's taken the top award for its class.
    E-mail me for more information.

  • predfern
    13 years ago

    Nahema is the climber. Mine survived the winter with significant cane (no winter protection).
    Sonia Rykiel is a shrub (2' - 3').

  • upmichiganJim
    13 years ago

    I am in Michigan's upper peninsula where I am listed as zone 5a, but I see temperatures going down to minus 20 each winter for some nights.
    I agree that Earthsong is a favorite and it has been hardy for me. Also consider Morden Centennial and Habitat for Humanity. I have planted Dublin Bay twice, but it has not survived the winter for me, although other gardeners have good luck with it.
    You might also consider John Davis or Alexander MacKenzie. Alex may not be listed as a climber but it certainly has the canes for it. Dortmund is another climber that has been hardy for me here for 5 years.

  • professorroush
    13 years ago

    The choice of Morden Blush is a good one...compact, and it will bloom its head off in the right spot.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog

  • mysteryrose
    12 years ago

    Clair Matin does fine for me in Chicago, no dieback, 4 1/2 ' tall, repeats 3 or 4 times if deadheaded. The most beautiful and disease resistant of my shrubs is Pretty Lady, which gets about 3 ft tall. Man, the colour is really sensuous (too bad that the name "Maiden's Blush" was already taken, I guess). It is a blush creamy pink, with interesting stamens in the center. It's a blooming machine. I have over 60 rose varieties, but this is the one I would like ten plants of in a giant bed--if I had the space. It is probably the most under-used and under-rated rose in American commerce, I'm thinkin'.

  • AnneCecilia z5 MI
    12 years ago

    I may be too late, but OOH, I cringed when I pictured Rose de Rescht beside Viking Queen in my mind's eye. I disagree about VQ being of a purple shade - never has been in 10 years she has lived in my garden, the buds and new flowers sometimes taking on more of a peachy hue. Morden Blush is an ever so much better choice for siting at VQ's feet, IMO! If you give me another week, I can probably give you a photo of the blooms side by side for your decision. :-)

  • michaelg
    12 years ago

    HelpMeFind's claims about hardiness are the least reliable info on that wonderful site. Often they are just default setting for an ARS class of roses.

    I doubt if any climber/large shrub can surpass Clair Matin's fast, generous repeat bloom. Also it has some fragrance and is good for cutting.

    But if you want the climber to be at full size for the June flush, there are super-hardy ones like John Davis and Quadra.