Thank you, Kim, I'll debud her and move her to full-sun once the risk of frost is gone. I'll move my GRAFTED Pat Austin to that clay "swimming pool". I'll bury her 6" deep to ensure the death of Dr. Huey and the growth of own-root. I want to slow down her growth, so her thorns don't get larger. I already took pictures of Pat's thorns, to see if the future-own-root version would improve. Own-root chlorosis on alkaline clay doesn't inferfere with flowering. Christopher Marlowe will always be pale, but he has at least 20 buds compared to Grafted-Pat's 6 buds. He gets much less sun than Pat. Question: Once Pat is moved, I have a full sun, next to the house, southern exposure, sheltered from wind. Should I get own-root Yves Piaget this year for that spot, or should I wait until next year for a grafted Yves Piaget? I don't know how well Yves Piaget does as own-root in alkaline clay. He's low in thorns. Thank you for any info.

It appears to be very climate, soil and water and varietally variable. Those which were introduced before budding was the favored propagation method, usually performed well in the old garden, unless chlorosis was an issue with them as the conditions were very alkaline. Many of the initially budded ones performed well there, too, but once the soil had been sufficiently amended with enough manure and water was laid down in abundance, most did quite well. The main exceptions were those which were just weak varieties to begin with. Most of them did much better when budded on Huey as that is the stock most suited to these conditions. Also, many, whether good in the mid desert own root or not, just didn't perform well in the colder, damper soils along the coast. It was quite interesting observing what did well with heat in the desert soil, then nose dived at the coast. I'd imagine your conditions in Oregon would be more like the coastal conditions here, Paul, only much more extreme. I can well imagine them not performing well, or as well, for you there own root. Of course, I'd also expect the increased fungal pressure you experience had a symbiotic relationship with their performance. Growing weaker would make them more susceptible to attack, and stressed by attack, they would perform more weakly. Very interesting, thank you! Kim

Jasper, a lot about how vigorous they'll be is climate and soil dependent. I grew MANY of them in my old Newhall, CA garden. You may browse the list of what went through that garden in its eighteen year existence at the link below. I propagated MANY roses, to the tune of a few thousand, literally, over the many years I volunteered at The Huntington Library propagating roses. From my experience propagating them, growing many of them, working with them in the gardens at The Huntington and observing them in public and private gardens all over California, I found those which were introduced prior to the mid 1920s generally grow well own root, with a few exceptions, as many of them were originally sold own root. Ease of rooting and growing own root were prime criteria for selecting which roses were to be introduced. It wasn't until around that time that the American market shifted away from own root to budding. Those of that era considered "vigorous" in the publications of their time make good garden plants where they are suited to the soil and climate. Weaker growers can be improved by budding, but weak is weak, no matter what. You have to keep in mind that very few of them are going to be as husky, vigorous or full as many of the later types. Though many were decent for their time, it wasn't until the introduction of Peace and its influence on breeding that plants resembling more of what we know today began to be considered the "norm". Most of the older cultivars aren't as well foliated, nor do most grow as dense and full. You have to view them with eyes appropriate to their vintage. There were exceptions to all the rules, just as there are now, but for the most part, nothing from the 1920s will be as husky, dense and full as something from the 30s, 40s, 50s and later. Each decade, the bar was raised concerning health, vigor, bloom production, etc. and if you wander around a collection planted by decade, you can easily see what I mean. Radiance, introduced in 1908, was surely initially offered own root. Eclipse, introduced in 1935, was initially offered budded. Radiance will still make a substantially better (more in keeping with 21st Century eyes expectations) own root plant than Eclipse. Once budding was the standard method of propagation, it didn't matter how well a variety rooted, nor how well it grew own root. That wasn't a consideration of their selection processes. That doesn't mean those introduced later won't root or won't grow well own root, but many which were, aren't as good or as easy own root as earlier types are. The four you ask about are all Nineteenth Century introductions, quite a distance from when budding became the standard production method. As long as they are happy with your soil, climate and culture types, I would expect them to perform acceptably own root for you. I would suggest, if they aren't already mature plants to pot them, growing them on until they are what you would expect from a canned, bud and bloom size plant before putting them in the ground. Young, own root plants are literally "infants" and benefit greatly from some time canned to mature and build the energy and momentum they'll need for being planted in the ground. In that old mid desert garden, I always grew new plants on in five gallon nursery cans until they were large and established enough for planting out. It made worlds of difference in their performance. Kim Here is a link that might be useful: A Hidden Sanctuary rose list

I collect Old Garden Tea roses and I rarely see any rose in a different class that has the same degree of "exquisite delicacy" that is shown in a Tea rose blossom. The few roses that I do grow with my Tea roses that are suitable for a colder climate include: Tea Hybrids: which have one Tea rose parent; Souvenir de la Malmaison' which although is sold as a Bourbon is fully 1/2 a Tea class rose. Divine pink-flushed creamy blooms, the plant is floriferous. I planted 3 of these in a triangle at a local public Old Rose garden, which makes a mass of fragrant roses. One of the very best of the Old Garden Roses in my opinion.. Mrs. Herbert Stevens, is very lovely; the climbing form can be grown as a self standing "tree rose", c. 6-7 feet tall, with one thick central trunk, the delicate blossoms have the natural artlessness of a true Tea. Mlle. Cecille Brunner' a Polyantha-Tea with dainty blossoms and a great fragrance, Spray Cecille Brunner is an excellent plant that can be grown as a hedge, or as a self standing "Tree rose" . Early Hybrid Teas that retain some Tea rose character; Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria' a white rose with a sweet graceful bloom style. Not pure white, it has some lemon tints to it according to conditions. 'La France' 'Snowbird' nice fragrance and a lovely bloom shape. Mrs. Jules Bouche' is as floriferous as a Tea rose and has a nice mixed floral scent. The Pernetiana class has a few roses that would mingle well with Tea roses. Duquesa de Pernananda' (sp?) reminds me of the Tea, Anna Olivier', but with richer hues. If I could not grow my beloved Tea roses, I would grow the roses listed above. Good luck on your quest to find cold climate Tea like roses.