This is advice I saved from Luanne's posting on how she turned an MAC into a shrub. If she sees this, she can nay or aye it, in case I misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure this this was her advice, anyway about doing that.

Well you pick out about three canes and let them build a structure which you shape. You prune her to 4 feet in November or when you do your Fall pruning. Jon of Wessex was the only one who would help me with this project and he said 4 feet in Nov. and March but I live in CA so I did it in February so it was a nice 6-7 feet and blooming freely all over in April. I cut her back to 5-6 feet after each flush. In the fall I might prune her with the David Stone method--removing the oldest cane and encourageing new basals for maximum bloom.I will judiciously air out the center and keep most of the canes the same height for a nice bushy plant. She really thrives under this management. I also do Devoniensis but she is much mor inclined to grow irregularly and throw off random canes and long thorney branches.

While the above post is great advice if you want to Make a shrub, I think you wanted to know if cutting MAC back would permanently affect the climbing quality of MAC. It shouldn't. You will have to do some training pruning as it regrows since cutting back will make for a denser base. You might need to eventually take out some some of the new growth. My MAC has always been a bit leggy so dense would be good I think. Occasionally climbing sports can revert to bush form but MAC was bred as climber...hope this helps.

patricia

I've had to whack mine back to a nubbing about 4 times and move her.

I just whacked her again about 4 weeks ago and moved her a 5th time...this time is the last! She has put out some long canes and still looks like she wants to climb so I would say no, cutting way back does not make them stop being climbers.

Deb

Grow as large shrubs without cutting back, even when growing through taller plants or on a frame are still large shrubs, rather than true climbers (vines) with very long twining or clasping stems. New canes come from the base as well as higher up on old canes, grow up through the support. Take away the support and the rose is merely apt to be shorter, basic fountain-like habit remains the same. Where certain roses are abundant as wild plants you can often readily see the same kind growing as a bush or a climber near one another, the ones under trees or other taller plants "climbing" them and the rest not putting up the same tall canes but remaining lower - and otherwise similar. Some specimens will have both kinds of growth, such as when situated partly beneath a tree or in front of a fence. The difference between climbing and not boils down to how long the canes are, you don't have to force a plant grown without support to not climb by cutting it back.

My BIL who grew about 1200 roses before his death and had for many years, told me to always leave at least 3 long canes before moving them as "leaders" so the other would follow but if I did not do that, it might never climb again. I forgot his advice and I had several climbers that after 5 years, never threw long canes again. Now I remember what he told me, leave some long canes but cut the rest of it back.

whoops, my bad, but I guess now I know how to move it if I want it to stay a climber and what to do if I don't.

Thank you, all. I had planned to just cut it back to about the size you'd get with a bare root rose to make it easier to move. Now I know better.

How long do I need to leave the long leaders? They are at least 12 feet now and don't think I could leave that much hanging off.

Hmmm...If what I am reading here is true then when would a bare root ever climb? When you think of the millions of plants sold as bare root roses we would have yards full of bushes only since none of them have long leaders left on them. It certainly would take a while for the plant to built up to throwing out long canes-the sleep, creep, leap senario as the plant builds the carbs necessary for growth. I would think it makes a great deal of difference if the rose is bred climber or is a climbing sport. Lots of large flowered climbers are sports(not like the large flowered ramblers which are natural climbers) I will have to ask Anne Belovich about this. She grows hundreds of climbers. Mac is so vigorous that I cant see it not reaching for the sky. I always leave as much bush as I can handle when I move a rose and prune back what it abandones as it settles in. Bboy is right that support makes a big difference. You can get a rose to climb sometimes which doesn't normally climb..I have Rosa mundi climbing up a quince tree. I wonder why that is? Interesting topic.

patricia