Well, if removal does nothing else, it directs the plant's energy into mature, productive growth.

Jeri

I am always eager to remove the juvenile growth once the mature growth comes in. Almost as eager as I was to preserve that valuable first growth when the plant was young and vulnerable. Think of it as taking away the training wheels.

The same thing is true of some kinds of trees. They require a lot of judicious light pruning while young that seriously effects how they perform 20, 30 or 50 years later.

Rosefolly

An old english gardener (Fred Loads) always used this little mantra - 'growth follows the knife'. Pruning is weirdly counter-intuitive sometimes - to shape a badly lopsided tree, you cut even more out of the side which has the least growth, making it look even worse....for a season. Then it starts to make sense when the new growth comes roaring in.

Thanks, Jeri & Rosefolly. That's what I thought.

Thank you, Campanula, very interesting. I remember your saying in another post that you sometimes make a slight cut in the bottom of a cane which will cause a cane break near the cut. Am I remembering that right? So I should cut off all the twiggy, juvenile polyantha growth on Etoile de Mai and wait for the new canes??

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Is it annoying you, Sherry. I would not cut it off as a matter of course unless it was a snarly tangly mess. These little branches will leaf out and hide the bare legs of bigger canes, the leaves will photosynthesise, feeding the plant while not flowering and, given a chance, some of this juvenile growth will put on more girth to carry flowers. I tend to cut thin canes off once they lose their green flexibility and turn woody and then I cut them right back to their origin. Do you feel there is insufficient basal growth? With young roses, water and nutrition is probably more efficacious in promoting basal growth, than pruning. I have made incisions in old canes which have become woody and obdurate, usually much more aged than yours but mainly because I not only want a new basal, I want it as low down the bush as possible.
If you do decide to cut these little canes off, then take them right back to the base - a thin cane will only 'give birth' to other thin canes so they may as well be gone.
A photo?

No photo, since it's dark. No, EdM's little canes don't bother me. I can easily live with them especially after they leaf out. I just wanted to do the "right thing".

I was asking about the low cut because my Bermuda's Anna Olivier which sufferd mightily last year has become one-sided especially after the last freeze. Three years old, she has a very thick cane - an inch and a half thick - leaning to one side along with some smaller canes going that way. Nothing is on the other side, making it impossible to do as you said, "cut even more out of the side which has the least growth", so I thought a cut would do the trick.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

OK, try it - on the side you want a new fat growth to emerge, make a cut into the cambium, just deep enough to go through the bark and into the pithy layer. Take the cut around a third of the diameter of the cane. All you are doing is the same, more or less as when we bend a cane over to stimulate laterals...but obviously a big thick cane cannot be bent so this interrupts the flow of sap and encourages a new break below the cut. Try to make the cut about 4-5 inches from the crown- or, if you can see or feel the dormant eyes beneath the bark, just above one. Don't worry too much - you will not be causing any damage to a vigorous cane with a little slit.

Thank you, Campanula. How deep do you think the pith would be? An eighth of an inch? More? I did some googling and found there's a vascular cambium deeper in (a cork cambium nearer the surface) - at least in trees. I'm assuming that I'm cutting through the inner cambium (vascular) which looks pretty far in there. I'm worrying a little, but I appreciate your knack for hand-holding.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Hi Sherry,
You are just cutting underneath the bark - in a cane with a diameter of 1 cm, the most vascular action occurs in the outer 2mm. So, make a cut about one fifth of the diameter and take it a third of the way around the cane. Don't worry too much about keeping it exactly even and don't get worried about going too deep - as long as the cane keeps its structural integrity - ie. not cut deep enough to snap it in a wind, then the plant will be OK. The worst that can happen is....nothing. Because sap is flowing, it is highly unlikely that the small wound would allow any infection to take hold. Movement of fluids amd minerals can still occur across the cut but the plant is often stimulated to react as though it has been fully pruned.

Thanks again, Campanula. I will give it a shot.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...