Interesting read. I don't know. I tend to prefer own root simply because I know they'll never send up suckers of a different variety. I also assumed (falsely?) that an own-root bush would be longer lived, because it was more simple - not composed of 2 things, but maybe I am ignorant. Interesting thread.

Well, we have a 12-ft-tall (or greater) Sally Holmes that was planted here own root years before Weeks released it budded in the U.S. It blooms like a champ.
We bought budded plants of it, later, to make the same effect lower in the yard. They were virused. They never got much over 4 ft., at best, and are long-gone. The own-root plant charges along, after all these years.

Dr. Ekuan writes from the point of view of an exhibitor, who wants the biggest possible bloom, on a long, strong (stiff) stem. That's fine, if that's your aim. It ain't mine, and hasn't been for many years.

So, I think my answer to the question would be "It depends."

If you want a mature plant IMMEDIATELY, go for a honkin' budded rose. If the most gigantic blooms are your aim, go budded.
If you have a burning desire to grow some of the Hybrid Teas of the 30's, 40's, and 50's -- buy budded. Those roses were bred to be grown that way.

If you want a normal, graceful plant in your yard, and can afford to wait an extra year or so for maturity -- and you want a long-lived plant that won't sucker, or age out of the ability to grow new canes -- buy own-root -- as we now always do.

Ya pays yer money, Ya takes yer choice.

Jeri

Going back a century or two, Vibert, writing in 1830 in the context of the stocks available in his time, decidedly preferred own-root. (He was drawing on personal experience with grafting reaching back to at least 1815.) As you'll see, he wasn't so much considering the size or floriferousness of the plants as he was the plant's general health and longevity. After many pages of discussion of the distressing ins and outs of grafting, he turns to own-root plants: "Own-roots do especially well where the earth is not too sandy or too hard; in these two cases, correction is necessary by the known methods employed on similar occasions. These are not difficult: Frequent hoeing; some watering during great heat, especially during bloom; pruning appropriate to their sort--these are the main efforts required. Plants which are very feeble or very delicate require a lighter soil, though still substantial; and, by way of precaution, protection from too much sun the first year. Their existence not being restrained, as it is with grafted specimens under the influence of another sort, they fend for themselves, developing without let the faculties proper to them; and, freed from our meddling--too frequently fatal to them--they can attain an age which does not always come to the hand that planted them. From the modest place Nature assigned them, they have seen pass all these ephemeral generations of big grafted Briars, vain pride of our beds, which borrowed--but only for a few moments--their grace, and the freshness of their blossoms. [...] The mania for grafted specimens further keeps merchants from putting themselves to the trouble [of producing own-roots] in many localities, because they would not sell. It is necessary to have very wide-spread dealings, especially outside of France, to get a turnover with them; and I know some very respected and learned nurserymen who would have no sales at all if all they had was own-roots. These persons have them on hand to sell because they know the advantages of them, and are forced to sacrifice to the bad taste of the day in grafting Briar tree-roses. Raising own-roots for commerce is, in truth, longer in the doing and thus more expensive than raising grafted plants; and this reason may explain the preference given to these latter; however, true fanciers, who are in the practice of growing, make no mistake, and are well aware of the bad effects of grafting as it is done." The subject of grafts continued to interest him throughout his life; indeed, in 1865, fifteen years after he retired and the year before he died, he was still writing articles on the matter ("Observations Relative to the Influence of the Graft on the Stock," in this case about grafting Pears). I can add, from my own experience, that own-root specimens of 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' are, in the long run, much more satisfactory than grafted specimens, at least under my conditions. While the flowers are perhaps a little smaller than in grafted specimens, and the canes and growth perhaps a little less strong, the blossoms, being less "ambitious," don't ball as they frequently do in grafts, and the plants have a nearly continuous growth and bloom, while the grafts I've had tend to grow and bloom in bursts. I find a lot of truth in Vibert's statement "Their existence not being restrained, as it is with grafted specimens under the influence of another sort, they fend for themselves, developing without let the faculties proper to them; and, freed from our meddling--too frequently fatal to them--they can attain an age which does not always come to the hand that planted them."

You have to take statements like that in context. Evidently he is only talking about hybrid tea roses used for exhibiting? In that case, it might be true in that very narrow range.

Lots of people (including those who should know better), say "roses" when what they actually mean are "modern hybrid tea roses".

If you are, as Jeri says, looking to grow graceful roses in your garden, which are NOT hybrid teas (which most on your list are NOT), I would go own root. The old roses in my garden are all own root, and some of them are 80, 90, and 100 years old and still going strong.

Even in warm climates, where you do not need to worry about hard freezes killing the scion, own root has an advantage - no !@#$%^&* suckers to worry about! Our warm climate seems to encourage suckers from the root stock - I stopped planting grafted roses when I realized that almost all of them were producing suckers regularly, which require digging them out, which is a pain.

Jackie

Interesting--I have never had a rose produce a sucker under any circumstances. Of course, Kansas is very different than California, but it is certainly very hot here in the summer time. Does anyone know why roses sucker in some places but not in others?

I personally think that some Austins need some extra encouragement to get going strongly, and that is what grafted (Dr. Huey) can do for them. I've had several that were decidedly wimpish for several years, even though they were grafted, but then they finally took off fine. I would hate to see what they would have done (or not done, as the case may be) if they had been own root.

But maybe it is a location thing.

Kate

Several reasons why Huey suckers more in these parts come to mind, Kate. Many have 'gardeners' and many of them 'cultivate' the rose beds, loosening the soil with hoes so they don't have to weed by hand and to 'aerate' the soil. Well, it also breaks the feeder roots of the stock and creates forests of Dr. Huey. I've seen it time after time.

Automatic sprinklers, particularly if drainage is an issue. Deep watering encourages plant roots to grow deeply into the soil where mechanical injury and cold damage are less of issues. Soil which either repels water or into which water can't easily percolate, necessitate shorter duration watering, which is virtually the same as only watering the soil surface, preventing the massive run off due to "over watering". Plant roots grow TO the water. If it's mostly in the top few inches of the ground, that's where the roots are going, making them more susceptible to damage and encouraging them to break into growth for themselves.

Too shallow planting. I plant the union AT the soil surface. Around these parts, you see many with the union standing proud and tall, as high above the soil surface as the shank of the plant allows. That puts the roots right at the surface of the soil where they obtain more of what they need to grow on their own.

Drainage issues. When water can't soak deep into the ground, remaining nearer the surface, again, that's where you're going to find the roots. I have frequently seen tree roots lift sod and grow right across the surface of the soil all across the yard where the soils are engineered to provide the mandated seismic stability. Any time you bring the roots to the surface, you're going to have more suckers. When the soil is as solid as a rock, holes are impossible to excavate, so too often they are the barest minimum useable. That often spells disaster. Where appropriate holes are able to be dug, water percolates through the soil more easily and appropriate watering is accomplished because it soaks IN to the soil, instead of running off, and NO 'cultivation' is practiced, you see very few suckers. Kim

I'll be another "it depends" person, but with a bit of a different point of view. Here in central Florida, with our very warm, sandy soils, grafted will almost always outperform (and outlive) own-root, except for a very few varieties. And of the rootstocks, 'Fortuniana' is far and away superior to all others. Research done at UF back in the early '60s demonstrated about twice the number of flowers, on longer stems, and bigger flowers, when grafted to 'Fortuniana'. My anecdotal observations would agree with that -- generally far bigger, healthier bushes with far more flowers. And even with good care (lots of organic material amendments to the soil, a heavy mulch, etc.), still, the 'Fortuniana'-rooted plants come out ahead and last much longer. HOWEVER, there are roses I would not put on 'Fortuniana, and among them are some of the Austins. I've not grown many of them, but two that do come to mind are Heritage and Graham Thomas, both of which make huge plants, almost trees, on 'Fortuniana' roots, but which seldom make any flowers at all. On the other hand, own-root plants or plants on 'Dr. Huey' flower rather well, with good repeat, although on plants that seldom survive as much as 5 years no matter what we do.

Some roses are fine here on their own roots -- many of the Chinas, for example. Nevertheless, even with those, grafting to 'Fortuniana' makes a much better plant, which will outperform its own-root counterpart for many years.

So yes, it all depends....

another vote for 'it all depends'. Here in the UK, Gertrude Jekyll had always praised roses on their own roots yet not a single grower offers roses grown on their own roots. Why not? Grafting roses is an ideal way for the nursery-person to produce stock which is true to form and suits mechanisation required for large scale production. If you have ever seen a good budding team in action, they can bud up to 400 roses an hour. It is almost like factory growing. The mechanical undercutting ensures nice fibrous roots and a variety of stocks can be used. On the downside, many rose growers are running out of suitable fields to grow the wild root stocks, often having to lease space. Further, good budders are a vanishing resource so I will predict, at some point in the near future, roses will be propagated using tissue cultures and the like. It becomes clear that rose production is always guided by the needs of the growers rather than the customers. Moreover, it is quite true that grafted plants are especially pertinent for the growers of exhibition roses along with a range of practices divised to stimulate large perfect blooms (disbudding, stopping or pinching out and even forcing). The only way to make a valid comparison is to grow a grafted and own root rose side by side - easily done if you are in the habit of taking cuttings from your purchased stock (I am). Ultimately, it comes down to the modern obsession with 'choice' - too much of it can be a bad thing, to my mind, creating conundrums where before, certainty reigned. If you are really bothered, then learn some simple propagation techniques and try the different types for yourself. In fact, budding is not a difficult skill to master - you can even have fun trying out some unusual stocks (I have used New Dawn as a rootstock!).

Well, because in zone 4, grafted results in a lot of red climbing roses, that bloom for two weeks...if you know what I mean.

Own root means you have the same rose in the spring...that you bought the year before :)

As Lavender lass said, in cold zones grafted roses can die to the graft in the winter and you end up with root stock growing instead of the variety that you purchased. So a lot of people in cold climates tend to like the own root roses better. I have mostly grafted roses though and I've only once had Dr. Huey come up. And that was because the rose died the previous year and I never got around to taking out the stump. So the following spring the good Dr. paid me a visit. I actually let him bloom that year before I removed the plant.

In your zone none of that matters. If you'd like bigger, faster blooming plants sooner buy grafted. If you're willing to wait patiently for an own root rose to mature than go that way. Or if it's a rose you love and you can only find it one way or the other just go for it and don't worry about it. As to which ones are healthier disease wise or which one will out live the other, I'd say it's a toss up and depends a lot on the growing conditions in your area.