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organicgardendreams

Rose similar to Bewitched?

Don't get me wrong, in many ways I love my Bewitched. She pumps out flowers for me no matter what is the season, the fragrance is fantastic, she has exactly the cool pink blooms that I like, the flowers have a nice shape and a good size.

The only flaw that comes with her, and it is a big one, is that she has fungal disease problems that are persistent and really annoying in my organic/no-spray garden. She gets rust, powdery mildew, if there is the slightest possibility for black spot, she has it, and she defoliates very easily. A friend of mine, who lives close by, is growing Bewitched, too, and the rose shows the same problems, which indicates it is not my specimen it is the rose itself, that has this weakness in my climate.

So I am wondering if I could find a better substitute for her. If I could have my way it would have all the virtues of Bewitched that I listed above, but it is disease-resistant. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Christina

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

Comments (42)

  • roseseek
    11 years ago

    Christina, look around and see how Memorial Day does in your area. Here, and I know it's a totally different set of circumstances, Memorial Day is a horse and spotless. Hopefully, it may be there, too. It has all the virtues you list for Bewitched and I hope none of the faults. Good luck! Kim

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Kim, thanks for your response. I didn't have to look around for Memorial Day too far away, since I have it in my own garden ;-). You are right it is a great rose and totally healthy here.

    Any other recommendations for a good, healthy pink HT similar to Bewitched?

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

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  • lenoirfoothills
    11 years ago

    Miss All-American Beauty (Maria Callas)

  • kittymoonbeam
    11 years ago

    No fragrance but a floriferous pink with a fine HT shape and lasts a long time as a cut rose is the Kordes rose called Flamingo. I got this on a whim from Palatine and have never noticed any diseases.

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    lenoirfoothills, I will go check out Miss All-American Beauty aka Marie Callas on HMF. Thanks for the suggestion!

    kittymoonbeam, never heard of Flamingo so far. I will also research that rose. No disease is certainly a very impressive quality in a rose, but I prefer fragrant roses over non-fragrant ones if I can get them. Anyway, thanks for pointing that rose out to me.

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    11 years ago

    I wonder how 'Secret' would do for you. It seems happier with cooler weather, so maybe right along the coast you would get good performance. Here a few miles inland it has excellent rust and mildew resistance.

    And it's fragrant!

  • roseseek
    11 years ago

    Secret was spectacular in Newhall, CA, much hotter and drier than New Orleans. Secret's Out, the cream sport of Secret is pretty good here in Encino. It's wonderfully fragrant, lightly thorned and so far very healthy.

    My experience has been that the commercially named roses from Week's, bred by Tom Carruth, have generally been very good roses. I don't mean the "disposible ones", the ones named for celebrities as they are the "rose du jour" and will fade with the waning of the celebrity's popularity.

    Look, instead, to the ones named with commercially good, lasting names. Neptune, instead of Barbra Streisand. Memorial Day instead of todays headline grabber. Generally, these are the roses the breeder and the company believe to be the better plants and they've bestowed good, lasting commercial names on them to help keep them around and popular for as long as possible. I'm not saying a celebrity rose can't have a pretty flower or can't be good somewhere, but on the average, they aren't going to be AS good AS many places which is why the company permitted them to bear such names. Sell as many as you can to bring in the revenue (which is SORELY needed!) until the popularity of the namesake wanes, then off to the next one. But, the solid names on the solid plants will continue for years go come (hopefully!).

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    hoovb, somehow I haven't thought about Secret, but that could be a winner. A friend of mine, is growing this rose successfully but he lives a 40 minutes ride away, so my climate could be different from his. I am 15 - 20 miles inland in San Diego. In any case I remember loving the strong fragrance, the shape and color of the bloom. So I will give this rose a try. Thanks for the recommendation.

    Kim, great that you are second Secret and Secret's Out.
    Your thoughts about roses named after celebrities are very interesting. Never occurred to me, that these roses might be "second choice roses".
    Do you think that also goes for Marilyn Monroe? Whenever I have seen that rose it looks pretty spectacular to me, but I am not sure about the disease resistance, since I have not grown it by myself.

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • roseseek
    11 years ago

    Yes, Christina, that goes for Marilyn, too. Her flowers are pretty, but the plant leaves an awful lot to be desired. She can be rather angular, with one cane taller and huskier than the others, much like Diana P.O.W. Again, not saying it can't be pretty, it's just not one of the first line roses. I would, though, expect it to be a better caliber than say a Rosie O'Donnell. The name alone is FAR more marketable than hers.

  • wanttogarden
    11 years ago

    Julia Child has been the exception for me. Just loooove it.

    FJ

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Kim, I was thinking to get Marilyn Monroe for a friend who loves orange roses, but if the bush doesn't have a nice shape I will stay away from it and pick another rose.

    wanttogarden, I have heard good things about Julia Child, too. Thanks for chiming in and rescuing the reputation of roses named after celebrities ;-)!

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • littlesmokie
    11 years ago

    Hi Christina, I don't know if she is similar enough to Bewitched for you, but my best pink HT (good disease resistance no spray, good fragrance, & productivity) is Tiffany.

    I'm also very interested in those comments about 2nd tier roses being named for people. Roseseek, are you commenting primarily on North American rose breeders/companies who release or do you feel this is international as well?

    I note David Austin roses have named several recent introductions after people, while stating they are some of the best yet. (I'm thinking of the mayflower sport Susan Williams Ellis and Darcy Bussell.) Not arguing with you by any means, roseseek, just curious to keep the discussion going and value your thoughts. :)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tiffany

  • roseseek
    11 years ago

    littlesmokie, think about it. Julia Child was a force in food for decades. Marilyn Monroe has been a marketable brand name for half a century. Rosie O'Donnell, Chris Everett and a host of other "celebrities" are popular today, but what about tomorrow?

    It's long been written you can determine what a breeder feels about a rose based upon what he names it. A wise man doesn't name junk for his wife, daughter, mother, etc. At least in the eyes and mind of its creator, a rose named for the breeder's wife/mother/daughter is as fine a creation as he is able to create.

    A "lasting" name, Marilyn, Julia, etc., those held by people who have been a force for long periods and whose reputations will continue long after anyone who actually knew them remain, will still be remembered. Traditionally, "entertainers", politicians, etc. receive second tier roses because the popularity of the rose is so often dependent upon the popularity of the person. If you had two roses to introduce, one being an "OK" rose and the other something rather nice, which are you likely to name for a Marilyn Monroe and which will you doom with a name for one of the Kardashians? Marilyn Monroe will likely retain her fascination for many decades to come. The persona has become iconic. Julia Child secured her position in history. I seriously doubt anything like that can ever be said for the other examples.

    As for David Austin roses, none of the traditional rules apply. For European breeders, the comments about not naming dogs for loved ones holds true. European tax laws have created some odd names to American tastes. For McGredy to name a rose Mullard Jubilee to commemorate the anniversary of an electronics manufacturer, with likely free goods being paid instead of monies to avoid taxes, seems very odd to us here. When brought Stateside, that rose became Electron. Elina is a nice yellow rose here, but we would never accept Peadouce, a brand of disposable diapers in our gardens. Roses named for alcoholic beverages abound, but most have been renamed for our markets to make them more commercial.

    Austin, now he has changed the rules of most of rosedom to fit his desires. If he names a rose and tells you why, consider yourself blessed. He most often keeps his breeding information to himself as it's none of your business what he used to create the rose. Feel special he chose to tell you why the rose is called what it is.

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    littlesmokie, I just looked up Tiffany and even though I think she is more in the warm pink color range I like her a lot. Thanks for suggesting her.

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • michaelg
    11 years ago

    I think Tiffany is somewhat mildew resistant. At least I've never seen any on it here, where the PM pressure is not too bad. With its great fragrance and free bloom, Tiffany is still a prime garden HT, in my opinion.

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    11 years ago

    Tiffany: very good, but make sure you get a non-virused version.

    Celebrity names! That tells me something. No wonder 'Dick Clark' does not appeal to me. (Nothing against Dick Clark the person at all.)

    Though 'Julia Child' is spectacular, really spectacular. She got a rose to equal her warm and wonderful character. She's beyond mere celebrity.

    'Marilyn Monroe' I always though seems so perfectly named: you have this jaw-dropping beauty along with a lot of serious drawbacks!

  • kstrong
    11 years ago

    There's a really good pink that you can get in SoCal at Lowes in peat pots for $10 right now called Waiheke. I also agree that Memorial Day is great, here on the coast in San Juan Capistrano and in my mom's yard in East S.D. (Del Cerro) as well.

    Or, if you can live with OGR form, Yves Piaget is a wonderful darkish pink rose, and I just got one called "Grand Dame" from Weeks that is supposed to be an improvement on Yves Piaget, but I can't vouch for it (yet).

  • kstrong
    11 years ago

    Oh yes, there's another pink that's got a great reputation (and I just bought one myself) called Belinda's Dream. It's also at Lowe's right now in the bagged bareroots section for $6.

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Michael, thanks for confirming Tiffany as a good one :-)!

    hoovb, will try in case I get Tiffany that I buy a non-virused version. But how can you be sure other than buy it own-root and virused indexed?
    Like your funny comment on Marilyn Monroe :-)!

    kstrong, I will have a look at Waiheke, never heard of that one before.
    I am happy to life with OGR form ;-). Yves Piaget is already on my wish list. I have seen this rose blooming in the gardens of two rose friends and the rose is gorgeous!
    I thought that Yves Piaget is already pretty perfect. Do you know what the improvement of Grand Dame shall be in comparison to Yves Piaget?
    I am growing Belinda's Dream own-roots from Heirloom Roses. She is only in a 2 gallon pot right now, but has given me quite some lovely blooms already. And oooh, what a fragrance.

    Thank you all for chiming in here!

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • roseseek
    11 years ago

    Christina, the ONLY way you can even approach being sure your Tiffany is virus free is to buy it from a source who advertises they obtained it from indexed material. I know of only Vintage who has it that way and it is a custom propagation this season per their web site. Does anyone know of any other source which states theirs is VID?

    Waiheke was a strong grower, blooming heavily in Newhall when I grew it there in the 80s and 90s. Sexy Rexy did as well there then, too.

  • kstrong
    11 years ago

    Grand Dame is supposedly both more vigorous and more disease-free than Yves Piaget. At least that's what the marketing types say. I dunno, but it's worth a try for me.

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Kim, thanks for letting me know that Vintage Gardens has a VID Tiffany, hopefully it becomes available soon, again.

    kstrong, Yves Piaget looked pretty vigorous to me already, but I think have heard that sometimes he has problems with powdery mildew. Please, let us know if Grand Dame is really superior to Yves Piaget. I am curious.

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • kenetbay_aol_com
    10 years ago

    Have you ever tried Belinda's Dream. It is a shrub rose but not unlike Bewitched in size, color ( a little lighter), bloomability and has a wonderful scent, plus it's almost disease free. It is one of the earth-kind roses.

  • rosetom
    10 years ago

    While the bush and leaves are totally different, the flowers can be very similar between Bewitched and Tiffany. I have had both for many years - from Weeks stock via S&W Greenhouse and have not had any signs of virus from either one.

    Tiffany is better in the heat - maintaining consistent blooms throughout, although a bit smaller and flatter in high heat. Bewitched almost goes dormant, but in cooler weather, her blooms are huge!

    A fully open blossom on both are almost indistinguishable in good conditions, though. Bewitched even has some faint yellow highlights toward the center, which is what Tiffany is known for.

    All that's to say I agree with Tiffany - same pink, absolutely - and a wonderful bush. As michaelg indicates, one of the best examples of a Hybrid Tea rose. Vigorous, super long-stems while maintaining a bushy habit, and a Gamble fragrance award winner.

    I'm not sure I agree with some of the others mentioned. MAAB, for instance, has excellent blooms but the color is consistently dark hot-pink, very Electron in color and perhaps a half-shade lighter than Rina Hugo. Not a valid comparison with the pink of Bewitched and Tiffany, iow.

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Pennie, yes, I have Belinda's Dream. She is still in my pot ghetto in a 2 gallon container, though. I like what I have seen of her so far! Thanks for your recommendation!

    rosetom, what you have to say about Tiffany sounds very good. I will have a closer look at this rose. Thanks for your detailed response!

    By the way, my own Bewitched has continued to give me some of the most beautiful and fragrant pink blooms this year. Her leaves are diseased (powdery mildew) and sparse at this point. I was on a rose garden tour lately organized by the San Diego Rose Society and saw a specimen of Bewitched in a garden where roses are grown organically. According to the owner the rose bush was at least seven years old and it was very big and completely healthy! Maybe there is hope...

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • roseblush1
    10 years ago

    Christina.......

    I can tell you that when I grew Secret in a container while living in El Cajon, the rose was completely disease free.

    Jenn .... that is a beautiful photo of Bewitched !

    Smiles,
    Lyn

  • Krista_5NY
    10 years ago

    Christina, Perfume Delight might be a possibility. It tends to hold onto its leaves a little better than some of the other roses. It's vigorous, a good bloomer.

  • ken-n.ga.mts
    10 years ago

    See if you can find Belinda's Dream on fortuniana root stock. I've seen BD on it's own roots and it usually a little weak. I've grown it on fort. and it is a blooming monster.

  • lesmc
    10 years ago

    That picture of Bewitched took my breath away! Just lovely. I am in KY., so my weather is different from yours, but Tiffany is my favorite rose. I have two, in fact. I grow 150 roses, so she is a standout. I always want to toot her horn! Lesley

  • strawchicago z5
    10 years ago

    Thank you, Jenn, for posting that pic. of Bewitched. It's the only rose that is hardy to zone 4b, besides Crimson Glory. I already paid for Bewitched to be delivered from Roses Unlimited.

    Hi Christina: I wonder if your Bewitched is in the ground or in the pot? I wondered why the roses in the pots at the store defoliated so quickly... finally found the answer: fungal growth germinates better in an acidic environment like potting soil

    There's a study, the joint venture of Sweden and United Kingdom, entitled "Contrasting soil pH effects on Fungal and Bacterial Growth". It stated, "This experimental location provides a uniform pH gradient, ranging from pH 8.3 to 4.0 .. The growth-based measurements revealed a fivefold decrease in bacterial growth and a fivefold increase in fungal growth with lower pH. .. Below pH 4.5 there was universal inhibition of all microbial variables."

    The pH of alfalfa meal is 5, more acidic than MiracleGro potting soil at 6.5. Horse manure pH is over 8, very alkaline and sits in my garage with zero mold. But when I mixed horse manure with alfalfa meal and peat moss (pH of 4), there's this HUGE growth of white mold on top. When I checked on alfalfa tea, someone mentioned that her roses black spotted after the alfalfa tea application.

    Alkalinity is a blessing when it discourages fungal growth. That's the logic behind spraying mildew with baking soda, pH of 9. I'll continue mulching my roses with very alkaline horse manure (the stable here uses lime to deodorize). I checked with folks at the Soil Forum whether the lime leaches down to the roots ... they told me that lime, or Calcium Carbonate stays put where it's applied.

  • organicgardendreams
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    jenn, thanks for bumping up "my" thread! Your 'Bewitched' is jaw dropping beautiful! Thank you so much for posting that picture. I am looking forward to 'Bewitched' flowers this year, despite her flaws.

    Lyn, thanks for the info about 'Secret'. It is very valuable information that it grew disease free in a container for you.

    Krista, I don't know Perfume Delight. Thanks for the tip! I will look it up and research it a bit more.

    Ken, I have 'Belinda's Dream' already and love it. Mine is still in a five gallon pot and it is very vigorous. I think in Southern California there is no need to have it on fortuniana it seems to be a strong enough grower on its own roots. But thanks for sharing your experience.

    Lesley, and yet another vote for Tiffany. It must really be a very good rose, when it does well for so many people in even different climates. Thanks for your input!

    Strawberryhill, my 'Bewitched' is still growing in a pot. Interesting study that you mention. Maybe things get better for my 'Bewitched', when it is finally planted in the ground.

    Christina

  • jenn
    10 years ago

    Thank you for the comments on my Bewitched. It has a lot of grey gnarly trunks you can't see in the photo. On my advice my husband cut one of them off to near the ground when we pruned it in spring. The part where it was cut off looks wretched, and when I look at this picture I wonder if we hurt our Bewitched. Time will tell, and perhaps a new cane will grow from it.

  • zippitydoodaday
    5 years ago

    Sweet surrender is not a rose often mentioned. It has a similar pink to Bewitched, but is more of a cabbage shaped rose. It has a very nice fragrance and does very well in a vase.

  • zippitydoodaday
    5 years ago

    If anyone plants the rose Savannah, please do share your experience. From photos it looks like Bewitched and won a 2015 award for fragrance and best overall rose.

  • rosecanadian
    5 years ago

    Straw - oh my goodness...I checked the info on your home page...and that is exactly what is happening to my roses .... curling up leaves and PM everywhere. So I need to apply something alkaline. I hate to hijack this thread...can you email me as to whether adding baking soda would help?? Or something else?

    Thanks! As always you are a fount of knowledge.

    Jenn - that picture is gorgeous!!

    My opinion is that Grande Dame is fabulous and incredible!!

    Carol

  • zippitydoodaday
    5 years ago

    Epson salts makes the soil more alkaline.

  • rosecanadian
    5 years ago

    Really? I happen to have epsom salts in the shed. I'm going to try that. Thank you!

    Carol

  • rosecanadian
    5 years ago

    Ooops - I found this on line.

    Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) are generally neutral and therefore do not affect soil pH, making it either more acidic or more basic.

    Are you sure?

    Thanks!

    Carol

  • totoro z7b Md
    5 years ago

    Carol, lime makes the soil more alkaline. Dolomitic lime is slow acting and has magnesium. I hear ground oyster shells are good too, but i can't find it easily.

  • rosecanadian
    5 years ago

    Thanks, Totoro - I put dolomitic lime on my roses. :) Hopefully it will start kicking the powdery mildews butt! :)

    Carol