You say that 'Peace' is the kind of rose you're 'talking about'. Does that mean the kind of rose you're talking about in the first part of your post, or that 'Peace' is a rose that doesn't exhibit the pointed look you want to avoid?

If I read your comments correctly, I think you object to roses whose petals quill. Quilling is usually a matter of degree, with some varieties exhibiting the trait far more than others, and some that quill earlier in the process of opening than others. Weather conditions can also play a role -- even 'Peace' can exhibit the trait, altho not to an extreme degreee.

The picture of Peace in DK is the type of rose I'm looking for. I've never grown Peace as my zone makes it iffy planted in the ground but in pots over wintering in my greenhouse it should be fine. Also with its' reputation for being virused I've avoided it. However as MM said Pickering has a clean one and as I trust them so I'll probably give it a try.

At the moment the only HT I have like this is Limelight. One other that comes close is a newish Meilland, Andre le Notre. Both now in pots and I would plan to leave them that way.

MM said Pickering has a clean one

*** Has it been tested, and shown to be clean?
Or is it simply a matter of not showing visible symptoms?
Is it Virus-Indexed?
Because, if it is NOT tested, and NOT VI, I'd take that "virus-free" claim with a large grain of salt.

The way budded roses are "manufactured" generally means that they are infected with virus from the first budding beyond the original seedling.
I suspect that, over the decades, a rose such as Peace may have picked up multiple additional viruses -- but I doubt if ANY were ever sold without at least one form of virus.

Jeri

Jeri,

You are 100% correct.

I do not know for absolute certain that Pickering's version of Peace is clean, but I have grown several Peace's from Pickering over the years and they have never demonstrated any symptoms of virus. All of them seem to retain the high level of vigour that Peace was orginally known for and also a pretty decent level of disease resistance too for an HT that is now known to be BS prone by many. When Peace first came out, it was actually known for very good resistance and many cntribute decreased vigour and disease resistance to virus and over-propagation. I also have not seen any evidence of RMV on the leaves, or any discolouring.

I can't speak to Palatine's clone of Peace as I have never grown one from them. I'd say I've grown at least 5 plants of Peace from Pickering though over the last many years, 2 of which I still have, one that was killed in a bad winter and when I forgot to protect it and two that were removed for other roses and given to friends to grow in their gardens. Those ones are still going strong BTW, despite the fact they are not protected and are grown by non-rose enthusiasts.

It is cold here in winter and a virused plant is not going to survive long, let alone being transplanted. Most HT's, virused or not, can struggle to bounce back in spring here.

So, a scientific verification no, but a pretty decent benchmak from real growing experience. If Pickering version of Peace is virused, it's a really damn good virused version.

I understand about your preferences, but I have grown a whole bunch of roses over the years and most did not have that 'problem', so most roses you like will probably be ok. But to really be sure, you should go to nurseries and botanical gardens a couple weeks after everything starts blooming in your zone and check your favorite varieties before buying them. Meanwhile, you can browse the pictures on HMF of the roses you are interested in and start the process of elimination. I have no recommendations for you because I live in a very different zone. Vintage Gardens sells several varieties that are virus indexed, and as for the rest of their plants and other vendors' I just hope they are trying to propagate from virus free sources.

If Pickering version of Peace is virused, it's a really damn good virused version.

*** I'm with you.
I have, and have had, roses that I know must have been virused. But as long as they grew vigorously and healthily, I was perfectly happy.

Jeri

I'm hoping someone will answer the question that Jim said is the whole point of his initial post here: What are other roses that have the look he wants?

I thought I responded to windeaux but must have pushed the wrong button

Anyway only MM has put forth his nominations.

what about others!

I think I know what you are talking about. Sounds like you want a rose that keeps a high center as much as possible with petals that don't scroll back into points, the quilling that was mentioned.

Not living in your climate, I'm not sure if these would work for you, but I think the shapes of Crystalline, Marilyn Wellan and Gemini might please you.

Huh? What am I missing here, Jim? I took you literally when you stated that you were nonplussed about pointed petals, and HTs that exhibit traits of their Tea ancestors, and HTs that "when fully open are truly a mess showing stamens with their pointy outer petals." I assumed you actually wanted names of other HTs that resembled some photo of 'Peace' you had seen, and varieties that might be described by the DK book as 'looking good at all stages'. But as I now understand you, you're only seeking info on potential sources of non-virused selections of 'Peace', right?

In your opening post you gave us permission to call you weird. I won't do that, but I will say that this is, by far, one of the most abstruse threads I've ever encountered on this forum. ;->

Incorrect. The form of the flower is what I'm after. Of course a non-virused rose is fundamental. Sorry if I've confused anybody.

I should have used pictures of what I don't like and what I'm after. I guess most on this forum are not as fussy as I am and perhaps are not bothered by the look of many HT's particularly the older ones

Still any recommendations?