Hi Buff. There was this recent thread over on the Roses Forum: Alfalfa tea recipe. Hope it helps.

Kaye and I just put pure alfalfa around our roses once and it worked as well as the stinking concoction. In fact, it lasted and lasted. I believe what we used was a 2-pound coffee can per mature rose and half that for smaller roses. Then water it in. That's your tea. You may/may not need all that other crap.

Add me to Patricia43's list (we'll take our alfalfa dry, thanks). Tried tea once, too much work.

Me three, I'm not brewing no stinking tea. Works just fine putting meal around the plant and watering it in!

Carol

Thanks all! I am keeping my precious 9 mon. granddaughter Georgia today. It's perfect weather for yardwork. My son just came by to check on us and I told him if he'd let me go to the feed store to buy the alfalfa, she could stay until he's done with his work. (She enjoys playing in the playpen outside while I garden.) He said he'd go get it and pay for it since I'm helping out. He's a fine son!

I'm another fan of spreading alfalfa meal around the roses and watering it in. Life is just too short and there are many other things I'd rather be doing. The roses are all growing well and I'm not a physical wreck lugging around the tea to the roses. It's all good.

Ingrid

I spread the alfalfa pellets and epsom salts, then mulched with manure and cottonseed meal on all my roses. I watered and then it is supposed to rain tonight. Thanks for all the advice to spread the pellets. It was easy and after watering, I could see some dissolved pellets already. Buff

Hey, Buff, I think you're really missing out on a great tonic for your roses. What could be easier than dumping 8 or 10 cups of pellets into a Rubbermaid tub (or a trash can), filling it with water and closing the lid? Come back in a couple of days & stir, relid. Do this everyday and on the 7th day pour a gallon on the ground around each plant. When I did this last year, I really did not smell anything but "green". The second time I did it, I used rainwater off the roof, and it got nasty real quick. I think it was contaminated from fungus off the roof shingles. I threw it out.

This year I have two bins - one in the front yard and one in the back. When you run out of tea, you can refill with more water a couple of times. Then put the leftover alfalfa mush around your roses. I don't think you'll get the benefit of the fermentation with just the pellets in the ground.

And really, fish emulsion is FAR worse to my nose than alfalfa tea.

Admittedly, my yard is small, and I don't know how many roses you have, but this is a much easier process than the spring fert/compost procedure. The hard part is being patient for 7 days.

Sherry

I may try the tea later. At least now I know of a local and cheap source for alfalfa. I just need to get the tubs. I have 50 roses, 10 Austins, several teas and Chinas, a few floribundas, Bourbons and other ogrs.
Thanks, Buff

I recently counted mine - 54. No Austins. I've sworn off them. 13 more arriving soon.
Sherry

There is one school of thought that is of the opinion that some of the benefits may be lost in the fermenting process. This was told to me by a university professor from Northwestern.

I thought that it wasn't the fermentation but just the seeping. Mike Rivers wrote something up last year, and I can't find the thread, but I kept a clipping of his post:
Triacontanol is not formed by fermentation. It exists mostly on the leaves of alfalfa in the form of a simple ester which is hydrolyzed to triacontanol simply by contact with water. Triacontanol is almost totally insoluble in water and the only way it appears to get inside the rose is in the form of a water emulsion. Fortunately, triacontanol appears to be effective in incredibly small amounts, but an interesting experiment might be to add a few tablespoons of a shampoo or rinse containing the emulsifying agent, polysorbate 20, to either alfalfa tea or to the water used to wet down the pellets.

I'm with Patricia. The tea is too much work and the ugly garbage can takes up space. Once for "fun" I tried making it with the addition of fish emulsion, bone and blood meals. The result was a bubbling brew so offensive to the olfactory nerves that it nearly got me burned at the stake by an angry mob. Just kidding, but it really did reek. The smell also does not wash off if you get any of the potion on yourself during the pour.

I assume we are talking about alfalfa pellets, not hay. But what is meal, referred to above by ingrid? When I go to the feed store for this stuff, I don't want to be a complete idiot....

Alfalfa meal is ground up alfalfa. It is what pellets were before they were formed... Just say "alfalfa meal, please". If you get pellets, make sure that they don't contain any sugar or any other additives (My roses like their alfalfa straight, please, no chaser).

I make the Tea..there really is no reason to keep it long enough to really stink...I don't...in warm weather it ferments quickly..usually a couple of days..and I just add plain water to the alfalfa pellets..I mix it in the garden cart so I can wheel it around to the roses.

I'm reading a book that stresses the benefits of AEROBIC VERSUS ANEROBIC microrganisms and teas. Has anyone used aerobic alfalfa tea?

jerry

I've only seen alfalfa meal in little boxes, a very expensive way to buy it. I've used the pellets in past years but skipped it these past two because of a rodent problem. This year I'm considering getting the pellets, soaking them briefly in water to break them down, then spreading them. That or grinding them, and soaking seems easier. But I don't plan to add any other ingredients to the mix.

BTW, to get the plain alfalfa without sugar or salts, just get the horse feed (good) instead of the rabbit feed (bad).

Paula, go to a store that sells horse feed and buy the meal in bags, huge bags, probably 25 lbs for under $10.

Buff mentioned using Epsom salts as well. How much is recommended per plant? And is only to be used if there is some known deficiency in the soil.?

Thanks

Eric

Ever since I have been growing roses, I put about a cup of epsom salt around each, drip line in the early spring. I think the magnesium stimulates green growth. Anyway, my roses seem to like it. Buff

The only controlled study of Epsom Salts and roses that I know of was done at Auburn University by Kira Bowen. She reported (see linked article, way down near the bottom)) that a monthly application of 1 cup of Epsom Salts reduced plant vigor and flower production. I think a cup per month is excessive and probably a study with 1/4 as much would have given more interesting results.

Here is a link that might be useful: Auburn study

Patricia, that is what I do. The stores around here sell the pellets rather than the meal.

I only apply the epsom salts once a year, in the early spring.

Thanks Buff. I think I'll try 1 cup per established rose.

I forgot to ask earlier, but for people who use just the pellets, how much do you use? I see that Patricia uses a 2 pound coffee can, but I'd like to use less if possible. Like a Spring application of 2 cups alfalfa with 1 cup epsom salts?

Eric

Soil levels of magnesium are naturally very high in my area of north Louisiana (Lincoln Parish). The extension agent recommended against the use of epsom salts except as an occasional foliar spray to green up potted plants.

Oh ****! I guess I was misinformed! Do I need to add something to neutralize the magnesium? I live in Ouachita Parish, just east of Lincoln Parish, which is known for their piney woods and hills. My home is in the flatland, leading to the Mississippi River Delta 60 miles east of here. My subdivision is in a reclaimed natural drainage area, clay soil which I have amended with manure, compost and oak leaves. Would this make a difference as opposed to the piney woods area--calling Mike Rivers?

In most states (not California, alas), you can get a low cost soil analysis through the state's agricultural agency, often with the word "extension" or "cooperative" in its name. It is called different things in different states. Here in CA we must go to a private vendor and pay $100-$150 per test, but in most other states, it costs about $25. That's about the price of one rose at a good nursery. It is well worth getting that done. Then you will know for sure whether you should be using epson salts and other soil amendments.

I imagine people add Epsom Salts for two main reasons: either they think their roses need magnesium or they think Epsom Salts has some stimulating effect that goes beyond simple nutrition.

The first reason is easy to deal with. Magnesium is a secondary plant nutrient and there seems to be general agreement among agriculture extension services that most soils contain enough magnesium to satisfy plant needs. Some rose fertilizers do include magnesium, for example Espoma's Rose Tone. If you assume Espoma gave some thought to the matter, then the amount of magnesium in Rose Tone might be a reasonable guide to the maximum amount of magnesium required by any rose, in any soil. The label feeding of Rose Tone (3/4 cup per month, per rose) contains the amount of magnesium present in just 3/4 teaspoon of Epsom Salts.

The possible stimulating effect of Epsom Salts is harder to deal with. I guess I'd say that Kira Bowen's results, linked in my posting above, suggest that 1 cup of Epsom Salts per month, per rose, is just too much. If you already added a cup of the stuff, I wouldn't panic; I just wouldn't add any more. The only effect Kira noted was a slight reduction in flower production and plant vigor.

The advice about magnesium given at the enclosed link by the Peninsular Rose club seems reasonable.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gary Brust Article

Mike, thanks for the info. I think I'll just do a Spring application of Alfalfa, then monthly Rose Tone feedings.

Eric

Buff, you can get a basic soil test from the state for $7. It wouldn't surprise me if Ouachita Parish and Lincoln Parish have some significant differences in their native soils. They certainly appear to be different geologically.

What I always heard about epsom salts was that it encourages basal breaks. I see better results with alfalfa.