Build a Skippy or buy a Savio pre-made biofilter?

13 years ago

OK, I talked to the people at Skippy about what I actually need as far as biofilters and pumps. I need 2 150 gal skippies, each with their own Hy-drive 4800 gph pump. (Oh my gosh, I am sounding more knowledgable...)

This is for my 9000 gallon pool to pond.

It sounded great and I was pricing the pumps online (and dang if there are not HUGE price differences out there!), when I came across the Savio Livingponds Bio-Filter. It was tempting me, but is it really as good as or better than a skippy? It costs more, but would it be just as good? Maybe less work to make?

What do you experts think?

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Comments (8)

nkm56
13 years ago
I've never seen a pool made over into a pond, but I've heard of it being done before. I'm curious about the pool's bottom drain. Are you planning to remove it?

The reason I ask, rather than spend money for two very expensive pumps plus the skippy equipment or the expensive Savio setup, you might consider running a bottom drain to a settling chamber and then to the mechanical filter and then to a bio filter and finally back to the pond. It sounds complicated, but it isn't. Cliff and Joann put together a homemade filtration system using a bottom drain which leads to Rubbermaid tubs that are linked together. They have a large fish load, and the system works beautifully.

I'm including a link to their website, which includes a diagram of their set-up. It may not be what you're looking to do, but it may give you another option to think about that will probably cost less.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cliff and Joann's website
johnkr
13 years ago
My Savio Livingponds Bio-Filter has run perfectly for over a decade. I've replaced the top filter, but the tank is in excellent shape. My pond is 1,000 gallons, so its a little overkill. I do have two turtles that increase the need for the beneficial bacteria that colonizes the 30 gallon tank.

I didn't know anything about skippy equipment when I purchased my Savio, but I can't say I had any disappointments with the Livingponds Bio-Filter. The maintenance is very easy and the setup took minutes to install. I've changed my waterfall many times over the years and the Savio design has made the jobs relatively easy. I do empty the tank in the fall and refill it in the spring. I expect a lot more years of service from my Savio. I definitely got what I paid for.
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Novembergrl: I'll try to answer some of your questions. I have an 1100 gallon pond, deeper than yours but things should be similar except I'm in a lot colder zone than you. I suggest you get yourself a skippy or some other similar upflow filter. I use a 600 gallon per hour submersible pump. The pump is in a large plastic flower pot weighted with pieces of half brick so it sinks and stays down. I have a loop of black nylon cord through a cork for a handle that I use a stick with a hook to move it in the pond. I have similar handles on all my plant pots. I use those laundry bags to protect delicates stuffed with nylon scrubbies as the prefilter. By putting some 1-2 inch stones in the bags with the scrubbies, you can arrange them so that you can stuff them tight around the pot so that they serve as the prefilter. My pond starts in mid April and is taken down early November. I have to clean the pre-filter about 4 times in that period. When I first start the pond, I get the pea soup green algae bloom. My biofilter starts to work on it in about 2 weeks after which my water is clear. I get string algae but the cure for that is to have lots of other plants that are growing. I ensure they grow by giving them iron supplement which also contains some other trace nutrients they need. If the plants are growing properly, you should not have a big problem with string algae. I do have goldfish and yes, I get visits from Mr. and Mrs. Great Blue Heron sometimes. I do lose some fish but the depth of the pond makes it hard for them to take more than 1 or 2 and then the fish are scared and stay deep. They reproduce fast so I have no need to buy more. I also have 10-20 rosy reds which you might consider having as they are more colorful than mosquito fish. Activated carbon and charcoal are the same thing. A rule of thumb is hour pump should pump 50% to 200% of the volume of your pond per hour so a 600 gallon/hour for your pond should be good. You should be able to put a skippy behind your waterfall arranged so it feeds the waterfall. 14" is not very deep. You might consider digging the center of your pond down to 2' or so to give the fish more hiding places and also give your pump a deeper place to sit.
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Sorry - deep end is at the waterfall. This guy insists bio filters do not work. He now wants to dig at the shallow end, put in a skimmer filter with UV, and hook it up to a separate pump. I am really not in the mood to go through that, and take a chance on the liner and landscaping being compromised. Very few people I interviewed, when looking for someone, suggested a skimmer. The guy who built the pond had suggested either a UV, or a bio filter, or both, but said he felt the important one was the UV, and to forget about the bio filter - so I did. I'm almost at the point where I want to settle for leaving just the UV, and having someone come in twice a year to do a partial water change and add whatever chemicals are necessary. Maybe someone can suggest a decent, and knowledgeable guy who works on ponds in Nassau County NY???
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Chris, Nice job on the pond. Matala is being used more and more for filtration and for growing bacteria it is fine. But for catching debri it is not very good. The very reasons why people like it is the reasons that it is not good at catching debri. It is easily cleaned and doesn't clog up as quick. The reason why it doesn't clog up as quick because it doesn't catch as fine a debri. It is easier to clean because it doesn't hold debri as well. The pond water flowing thru it takes some of the debri with it. When Matala first came out 12 years ago I tried the white material which was the finest or the same as grey today in my skimmers. I found that it didn't work as well as the polyester pads. I used it for about 3 months before I stopped and went back to the original pads. The second thing I would think about would be to go to using the pump to running the bottom drain. I would guess that if you are running 2" PVC from your pump to the stream you should be getting about 4500 gph at the filter. Here I am going to suggest something that is old school. If you split the flow and put in a properly constructed bog filter your water clarity and filtering will improve a lot. There is no such thing as an ideal filter. The closest thing that has ever been on the market was a Nexus with an Answer. They no longer make the Answer so this filter is no longer even close to what it was. But a properly built bog filter will work as well as any thing else and in most cases better. By the way the least dense Matala is black. It goes black, green, blue and grey from the least dense to the most dense. Mike
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It's been a while since I read the Skippy site so I went back to see what if anything it said. Sure enough, it had suggestions. See below. Of course a lot depends on the amount of stuff that ends up in the pond and how much filter material you have and how much water is being pumped. Mine often depends on the mood of the local raccoons. No two ponds are ever exactly alike. Remember, this hobby has variables. I have 1,000 gallons in the pond, a 100 gallon Skippy and a 1582 gph pump. I use a separate small pump for a UV light. Sometimes I hook up a floating skimmer which is pretty much a waste of money unless I can figure a way to make it more useful. One of these days I will make the pond bigger because the fish are getting huge. I may just add a couple more Skippys to make a bunch of catch basins for waterfalls. Sandy "Parts list: A Rubbermaid stock tank. -- Old Style -- New Style. They come in sizes 70gals, 100gals, 150gals, and 300gals. (Also available is a 50gal size but we find it too shallow to be used as a filter.) Which one is best for you? Of course the size you will need is dependant on the size of your pond. The bigger the pond the bigger the filter you will need. Makes sense, but, how about a rule of thumb? Let us say this first, these filters really work. We have a few thousand in use at this point and have not had a single failure. That is, every one we have put in is working as expected. Actually, using the S.A.G. approach (Smart As_ Guess) we think the following will work: Updated as we have found these filters to work better than even we expected... 70 gal size filter at least to a 2000 gallon pond size 100 gal size filter at least to a 3000 gallon pond size 150 gal size filter at least to a 4500 gallon pond size If you need a larger filtration system, we now suggest that you build two 150 gallon size filters. Worst case: If you built a filter so small that it did not work for your pond, you could just build another and connect it to the first one and double the capacity of the filtration process. Or, add another in a different area of your pond, doubling the filtering capacity and adding more circulation."
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hawkiefriend
Original Author
13 years ago
Nancy, that is awesome but looks very hard for me to understand. Yikes! And I don't have much time to learn things before the weather gets hot... :) But thanks. I wanted to use the jacuzzi as the filter but I cannot figure out how and no one has come to my aid as yet.

And John, thanks for the review of your Savio. 10 years, wow. I may just go with it. The cost offsets the GREAT chance that I will mess something up with making the skippies. I might just hook up only ONE filter and pump and then get started on another for the other side of the pond.
watershaper
13 years ago
Everything I have done with Savio has been worth the money. Their skimmers are more expensive, but the bells and whistles make them a better buy, specifically if you want a UV they are cheaper than a inexpensive skimmer with separate UV. But that isn't the question is it.
I've heard of a few people changing pools to ponds, not many successful ones, but some none the less. Hooking into an existing bottom drain would always be ideal, especially if you are going to have large koi. I wouldn't want to try it myself, but it would be the best way if it could be done.
I've had a lot of customers have bad experiences with the online sales, but there are some good deals, but there is risk. The Danner 4800s are very reliable and efficient pumps, and there will be some price differences with those. If you see any Savio price differences I would advise against that site or store. Savio has an extremely strong rule of one retail price and they punish those that change them. If they are selling cheap online, chances are they aren't on the up and up.
hawkiefriend
Original Author
13 years ago
Whoops, Watershaper, I DID buy it! I was so nervous to make the Skippy that I just decided to buy a pre-made filter. The great price was at www.petstore.com - I do hope I will get what I wanted. I am nervous now.

I do hope our pool-to-pond will eventually be a healthy happy body of living water, if not beautiful like a pond that was meant to be a pond. It is already fun to see what the little creatures are doing there each day.

I got the pump on Ebay of all places, but it beat the prices everywhere else, so why not?

I probably need some kind of hose to connect the two, don't I?
lsst
13 years ago
If the pump is in the 4000 gph range, you need at least a 2 inch diameter hose. Three would be even better but a 3 inch is much more expensive.
Is the pump external or submersible?
lsst
13 years ago
I notice the Savio has an inlet size of 1.5 inches.
If I were you ,I would still use a 2 inch pvc pipe and add adapters to the pump and filter so it will fit the larger hose.
You will lose less gph from friction.
hawkiefriend
Original Author
13 years ago
This is what it says: 'The Versatile filter features a 2' outlet that can be connected to a standard MIPT PVC adapter.' So what exactly should I buy to get ready for my new pump and filter?? Yes, the pump can be submerged. Here is the link to the pump I got. I wonder how deep I should submerge it. The deep end of the pond (ex-pool) is 7'.

I am so grateful for your help.

Here is a link that might be useful: Amazon selling the Danner 4800 HyDrive pump

Build a Skippy or buy a Savio pre-made biofilter?

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nkm56

johnkr

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Build a Skippy or buy a Savio pre-made biofilter?

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nkm56

johnkr

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