Filling in 1st yr (non-blooming) Ps w/ As- how much can I expect?

18 years ago

Scenario: 2nd year gardener has decided to create new spaces, most being completely free of flowers.

Winter Sowing LOTS of Ps & As.

What kind of results (or lack of in the first year) can I expect from 'usual & customary' Perennials? What I mean is, there's going to be some obvious lack of bloomers for many items the first year, but I'm not sure which ones. I've got serious dillusions thinking that what I sow will be totally gorgeous, but in all reality, many won't be in their prime this year.

Can I expect lack of bloom from most of the Ps, or just a small segment of them? Will I need to really focus on the annuals for a good show this year, and scale back the As next year?

I've got the following on the list already:

Gallardia

Rudbeckia

Shastas

Hollyhocks

Hybiscus

Asclepias

Yarrow

Delphinium

Knautia

Dianthus

Poppies

Echinacea

Scabiosa

Coreopsis

Joe Pye Weed

Others, but can't remember all 52 varieties right now ;)

Thanks.

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Comments (10)

cynthia_gw
18 years ago
Annuals can be started 6 to 8 weeks before last frost (check the seed packet) and they'll bloom and flower for most of the summer. Perennials really need 2 or 3 seasons to pay off. Sure, some will bloom in the first season, but they will not be as impressive as a mature plant. There's a lot of joy in watching things grow. A healthy seedling, or a young plant is beautiful too and the payoff will be in future years. There's nothing as much fun as wandering through the yard and seeing something you started from seed 3 years or 5 years ago looking lush and healthy and blooming.

It sounds like you're planning to plant in coldframes? (You mentioned 'winter sowing' and that term is sometimes used to mean coldframe growing on Gardenweb.) If you enjoy gardening in winter, consider growing some seeds indoors under fluorescents. That will give them more of a head start. But not enough difference really in terms of first year growth. Those of us who grow under lights tend to enjoy the 'process' as much as the result.
gw:mmqc-2
18 years ago
Thank you, Cynthia-
Actually, my WS efforts are limited to recycled containers outside. I really have no intentions of 'setting up shop' indoors (budget constraints, don'cha know), nor do I have a cold-frame.

Since I'm relatively new to the gardening scene, I have only a few perennials that I bought as babies last season, that will most likely be good performers this year, but unless I mass them all together, I'm sure my gardening efforts will be more 'green' than technicolor this year. (I dream in color...)

What I'm thinking is that I'll need to put in some serious annuals this year, and then gradually cut back as the perennials mature over the next couple years, and rein in this silly notion that I'm going to have a luscious cottage garden full of blooming perennials just because that's my 'long term' plan. I forget that it's a process, and not a quick one.

BUT...no harm in getting my P-babies started this year so they'll have peers next year!
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ridgetop01 (zone 5b)
18 years ago
The folk saying about perennials is:

First year they sleep...
Second year they creep...
Third year they leap...

I've found this to be very true with the ones I raised - when I put them out in the garden they were teeny little things, now, 4 years later, they are reliably huge, or else they are gone!!
mylu
18 years ago
mmqc-2: I'm a grower and I can tell you for a fact that Many, Many perennials will flower the first year.
What ridge top says is true for a plant planted in the ground. It is true that a perennial needs a few year to get established. But that does not mean it will not flower the first year. We grow most of our varieties, 99%, from seed. Our planting schedule always has a target date. This year it's April 29th. Our goal is to have our first year flowering perennials to be in bloom by that date. We schedule our sow dates according to our "weeks to flower" schedule.

I'm doing this from memory as I don't have my data readily available. As an example Shastas are about a 23 week to flower. Mind you this is greenhouse conditions. We start shastas in November to meet the Apr. 29th deadline.

From memory here's your list:
Gallardia Yes will flower 1st year
Rudbeckia Yes will flower 1st year
Shastas Yes will flower 1st year
Hollyhocks Yes will flower 1st year
Hybiscus Yes will flower 1st year
Asclepias Never grown sry
Yarrow Yes will flower 1st year
Delphinium Yes will flower 1st year
Knautia Yes but not much. Needs to over winter to get established. We would sow in June the previous year.
Dianthus Some Yes Some need to be over-wintered
Poppies Yes
Echinacea You betcha
Scabiosa Sry haven't grown
Coreopsis Yep, Yep Very well
Joe Pye Weed Haven't grown.

P.S. Many annuals need much more time then 6 to 8 weeks before the last frost date to be large enough to flower.
Sapsalilagosis (sp from memory) Vincas, Geraniums, Impatiens, Pansy, Petunias. Out of the 150 varieties we grow our last sow date (except for veggies) is 12 weeks before our target date.
shrubs_n_bulbs
18 years ago
Many of the plants you list can flower the first year but don't get your hopes up. You need to sow early and have a good growing season. Even then most will be far better in the second or third year.
mylu
18 years ago
Shubs I think you need to come by the nursery some day(if you're ever in the states) and see our first year flowers.
You might be impressed. I always take pictures and I'll try to remember to shot you and email. Although I will agree perennials need to be in the ground to get established.

It's all in the growing conditions; water, light, fertilizer, size of the container. And as you said when you sow. There just like Tomatoes. If it's a 70 day tom you'll get flowers darn close to that date. No matter what time of year, for most but not all. Unlike a Begonia that needs more daylight hours to flower. Or Knautia that needs to be over wintered.
vjhale
18 years ago
When winter sowing, seeds typically germinate in April or May, so plants that usually sport spring blooms won't bloom until fall. Best not to plan on perennial blooms this year and be happily surprised when it does happen. This is my 5th season of winter sowing and have had such great success with it, I'd recommend it anytime. But it isn't a quick method of plant propagation, just an easy one. If you want blooms early in the season, buy annuals, winter sown annuals will usually bloom later in the season also.
mylu
18 years ago
Vjhale, Now that's assuming one does not have a g/h to sow.
We Sow almost 150 perennial verities each year. I can assure you we have flowers by May. How do you think nurseries are full of flowering perennials come May?

All seeds/plants have a weeks/day to flower life cycle. Some require the plant to go dormant first. Its weeks/days to flower schedule will be 52 weeks or 365 days. Just like that 75 day tomato. Whether you sow in winter, spring, summer or fall. As long as the conditions are met for flowering. I.E. In a g/h. Every year we sow Big Beef Toms in one of our houses in October. It's January 16 and we have our first 6 flowers. Granted we do have to hand pollinate.

Heck even if you don't have a g/h you can start perennials now, in your house under lights, and you bet they'll be ready to flower this spring. (depending on the variety of course)

BTW your first sentence proves my point. That is nothing more then the plant reaching it's flowering maturity. (weeks till bloom)
garden_witch
18 years ago
I have winter sowed some of these =)
These all bloomed for me first year...
Rudbeckia
Yarrow
Delphinium
Joe Pye Weed

Got a little foliage first year, second year blooms from...
Gallardia
Dianthus
Echinacea

Hollyhocks- most are biennials/short lived perennials... bachelors buttons fill in great!

Asclepias- still have just straggly foliage after two years... must be doing something wrong =oP

Poppies (perennials) I direct sowed last spring, got just a little foliage, which I believe may have fried =(

Haven't tried these yet...
Scabiosa
Coreopsis
Knautia
Hybiscus
Shastas

If you want some great "filler" annuals, try...
Alyssum 'Carpet of Snow'
Phlox 'Creme Brulee'
Petunias, 'Niagra,' 'Wave,' or 'Cascade' varieties, or others thickly planted.
Viola tricolor, "Jonny jump-ups" 'King Henry' is a great one, reseeds too!
Snapdragons, any (actually a half hardy perennial, will overwinter in milder zones, has for me too!)
Lobellia erinus, my favorites are 'Crystal Palace,' 'Blue Moon,' and 'Paper Moon'

GW
susanzone5 (NY)
18 years ago
Yes, keep the filler annuals short because they could cover the new, small perennials and thus inhibit their growth or cause mold. Patience is a virtue with gardening.

Filling in 1st yr (non-blooming) Ps w/ As- how much can I expect?

Comments (10)

cynthia_gw

gw:mmqc-2

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