To go boldly where no man has gone before.

12 years ago

I'm talking of neither the Star Strek nor the Rosie O'Donell shows on TV. I built a cold greenhouse in SOCAL going on 2 years ago and I found the experience exhilarating. A good portion of the pleasure came from being able to grow plants one does not commonly find around here.

Our climate here is conducive to a large variety of plants that are found in every collection. Some reed stem Epidendrums grow like Dandelions in our yards and the gardeners take weed whackers to them when they get too big. People get away with planting Cymbidiums in the yard as long as they add a healthy layer of bark around the root ball.

The average collection includes Catts, Oncidiums, the AU Dendrobiums and a whole host of other plants that grow well in our backyards. In addition to that people grow Phaelies and others that have to come in the house during the winter. All that is good, the plants and flowers are beautiful, our orchid shows can be spectacular. Attending different society meetings in LA, it is quickly apparent that the same type of plants are seen over and over again.

With the cold house featuring RO water, 80% humidity, night temps down to 55F, day temps kept below 75F a whole new universe opened up. The entire group of cloud forest plants from Central and South America became possible. Suddenly Pleiones became easy as did a number of other plants from a wide variety of genera. I'm going to try Cypripediums. Bringing these plants to the orchid society meetings and meeting a small select group of individuals who share the interest became an exiting part of the hobby.

I go to San Francisco regularly as I have family up there and have gotten to know some of the growers up there. For them these plants I talked about are routine, they grow like weeds up there. The challenge of growing plants that simply will not grow in your native climate should produce an added dimension to the hobby. While blooming Dracula in SF produces a yawn, down here in LA, it is unusual, exiting and challenging to achieve.

After a number of years, we all generally know about orchids and one is able to observe and notice that certain genera are never seen on our display tables. Within limits (there is an underground AU orchid that I think I'll pass on) I think it adds to the hobby to try to grow these that are hardly ever seen in your area. This will obviously be different for various general growing areas.

Nick

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (24)

ginnibug
12 years ago
Wow for a minute you had me scared Nick, I thought you were going to say that you were gonna try to grow Disas! There is a limit of what my heart can take!!;)gb
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
I grew Disas once for about 2 years with moderate success. I had a mentor who did nothing else. After 2 years I retired from the field, bloodied but undefeated. Some of the stuff we did was incredible such as putting Sphagnum Moss in the kitchen blender and mashing it into little pieces. We culled out the long fibers, called it 'super moss' and grew the Disas in that.

For our annual banquet, he and I put a tray of blooming Disas together that was a show stopper. Been there, done that, no more, thank you very much. It's possible but too much trouble. The cool GH which allows me to grow a lot of 'cool' (the other 'cool') stuff is no trouble at all. Everything is on thermostats, humiditstats and timers and pretty well runs itself. My water and electricity bill took a hit but there is no free lunch.

Nick
Related Discussions
Where Has Spring Gone?
Q
Comments (3)
Our weather in the Fl. panhandle is always fickle, but is worse this year. What will summer heat be??? The worst part is the weed situation. Weeds that are usually not up yet, are up and have seeds. I am NOT ready for that and can't seem to keep up with the pulling of them. One called 'bedstraw' is really awful this year, and that one-for some reason- has made my wrists break out. Not as bad as poison ivy, but a rash. That has never happened before when I pulled those. I put on a plastic glove and a cut-off sock on my arm to help. I pulled two 55 gal. bags of them per day on 3 different days. WEEDS GO AWAY!! LOL
...See More
Ripping out the doors...HFGH
Q
Comments (31)
Troy, we have a similar set up. I also have strong winds blowing on the doors. I have a fan on the back wall, and the fan louvers bang open on windy days with the GH doors open. We also only used one screw on our roof panels, in the center brace (and extra clips.) I agree, thank goodness for the EMT bracing recommended by Gardenerwantabe and others here. Im coming to two new conclusions. First, I think you're right about the unsecured bottom of the roof panels being a risk in some winds, based on your observations of the roof panel bottoms flapping up and down, and bwrights experience of losing screwed-down roof panels twice. (Thats the first post Ive seen about the loss of screwed-down panels.) I taped the bottom of our roof panels to the greenhouse frame, but only because we were one of the "lucky ones" whose roof panels were not quite long enough to project over the gutter as shown in the manual. Not everyone has this problem, but Laserfan used aluminum tape to bridge this gap on his HFGH, so I did too. I was not trying to prevent the wind from getting under the roof panel bottom, but thats probably been (accidentally) protecting our roof in high winds. This also fits with bwrights comments about using the Freezer King tape to similar advantage, to make sure all edges are sealed. Heres our roof panel at the bottom edge: Second, Im starting to see the roof vents as a fairly big risk for people in very windy areas. My kit may vary from others, but the poly panels in my roof vents were a bit too short to prevent movement in the vent frame. They fit tightly from side to side, but after each window was assembled, we could slide the poly panel up and down in the window frame, about 1/4". During one bad storm, I almost lost the poly panel from one of the roof vents. The wind had pushed the panel up in the frame so the bottom edge of the poly was exposed, and the wind got underneath and pried the panel part way out of the vent frame. I climbed up and taped it to get through the night. Next day, we removed all four window vents, and I caulked each poly panel in place on the outside of the window frame. The poly panels no longer wiggle in the vent frames. But, I still have the problem of bad winds lifting up the vent frames up (maybe ¾"?) even though the vent handle is locked in the last hole ("closed down") position. Wind picks up the vent frame, and when the gust stops, the vent doesn't always fall back in place correctly, so it's ready to be picked up by the next gust. If this happens over and over again in a storm, maybe its enough to shake the window stop out of the hole in the roof vent handle...? Once that happens, the whole vent frame could flip over backwards until it popped out of the roof peak channel (I watched that happen while building the GH, retrieving one vent window from our house roof.) If a roof vent fails, wind likely rushes in and puts pressure on the weakest points from inside the GH. If all the panel screws hold, the doors become the next weakest point, so they blow outward. Thats one theory, anyway, and right now Im thinking the safest thing is to leave my vents wired down permanently, since I cant figure out how to prevent the frames from lifting up that 3/4" inch (or so) in a high wind. Wish I had a better solution, but so far Im stumped. I'll add some of this info to my HFGH blog in case it helps others. Thanks for all the good posts here! Good luck with the door rebuilding Troy, looking forward to your pictures. Sheri
...See More
Where has my little dogwood gone?
Q
Comments (9)
We have volunteer dogwoods around the edge of the yard that bloomed at three or four years old. We have a few survivors of the twelve or fifteen small trees we transplanted out of the far woods into the near woods twenty years ago. They have neither grown appreciably nor bloomed in all that time. There are wild dogwoods all through the woods here in Lower Richland County; most years you can see them everywhere around this time. This year they all seem to be sparse of bloom. I think the weather's been too nice; finally a winter with normal rainfall. Wm
...See More
Formerly pretty wonderful teen has gone rapidly downhill...
Q
Comments (58)
Still going through over 20 pgs of small-type print, but I wanted to drop in to clarify a couple of points really fast. 1) DD has no "problems" socially. She tells me often about how people react with disbelief at the fact that 1) she's really smart even though she wears mascara and straightens her hair (quiet laughter on my part here--such a HUGE change from last year!) and 2) she homeschooled up until last year, because she 'seems so normal' (makes her laugh every time). We learned through our years of homeschooling that stereotypes are powerful and can be powerfully misleading, and often say more about the person who's making the assumptions than they do about the person who's being stereotyped. She's made many people reconsider their stereotypes and pigeonholes. It's eerie how quickly and easily she slid into complete comfort at this mega-size school, but I give lots of credit not only to her but to the atmosphere the school creates - so far, people seem to fall over themselves to say sweet, supportive things to each other. She's got a wide circle of social friends and a good tight circle of close friends. She's got no fear at all, and is happy being id'd as a 'music nerd' since the music program at the school is big and high-profile. In fact, the one time some of the 'popular' girls tried to do a 'mean girls' thing to her in science class, she laughed at them and acted it right back at them (at least I did my homework preparing her by having her read all the 'Reviving Ophelia' and Queen Bee' -type books--thanks, Amy!!) so hilariously that they ended up inviting her to their table and have become good friends (I've seen it corroborated when I pick her up from things). Those aren't the kids she prefers to hang out with, but I mention it to show that she's got social skills that people may not associate with the stereotypical 'homeschooler'. Our world-learning wasn't stereotypical, either -- I hardly taught her anything, actually -- I was more like the concierge who found resources to facilitate her exploring her interests, and chauffeur to her various classes/activities. She's also comfortable being in advanced classes, has no problem with it, and she'll be doing AP classes next year and IB after that, and there are always options to take more advanced math at a local CC or state U. My only problem is that she's now letting the institution determine how curious she is about something--if she does enough to meet an assignment, she's done. No more investigating something for its own sake. It's *sad* to watch that really exciting drive in her life extinct itself (or more hopefully, go dormant). Which leads me to 2) A couple of years ago, I started volunteering solidly back in my field, and I'm gearing up to try to find paying work in it, albeit at a much lower level than before. I love what I do, I'm *thrilled* to be back in it, and I'm seriously not a stereotypical 'helicopter' mom. So not. Since she was about 10, I've actually tried not to be too involved, so she can have her own space in her activities. A somewhat extreme example: DD keeps asking me to be an orchestra-mum in the city orchestra she's in (you sit through all rehearsals and do volunteer work), but I just won't do it. The vast majority of those are stage-moms who make my skin crawl--the ones I think I talked about in another thread who seem to think that nonstop bragging is the highest form of conversation, and I don't want to be around them because they feel toxic to me. I want to relate to her orchestra in a positive way without all the drama. So I take her there and pick her up but don't prostrate myself before the altar of the conductor. We did arrange to have DH's company match our donation to this group, though -- the first time an employee had donated to the group at all, which is really strange, considering my DH's company's dominant position in the area. So we give in the way we feel most comfortable without hovering or pushing. I'll let moms who want to do that have the face time with the conductor. So I hope these further details maybe clarify some vaguenesses or misconceptions. I also hope you all know how unbelievably much your thoughts and support, and individual stories you've shared mean to me and my DH. He's reading the printout too and we'll have more specific thoughts later. The folks who come to this forum are gems, every one. And beyond that, the web is phenomenal, and not at all just a replacement for RL relationships; as you have pointed out, it offers opportunities and resources that RL just can't, sometimes. Anyway, I lerve you all : ) (oh, and the Greece thing -- I realize it may sound like she was sitting in a closet coming up with plans for the world, but it was actually for Model UN and is documented in her position papers as Greece's "Environmental Minister" (LOL) from last year. She actively participated in MUN with her resource center's team last year even though she was only an '8th grader', but this year at the huge/high school, MUN is overenrolled, so only Juniors and Seniors actually get to go to the event. There's an example of a very tangible difference in activities/involvements available to homeschoolers and to public schoolers...: ()
...See More
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
It does not have to be exotic, hard to grow stuff. I noticed a couple of years ago that no one grows Tollumnias any more. I managed to find about 20 different ones (eat your heart out Arthur) which, when they bloom stimulate interest with our members. A few are now growing them.

How Arthur could find 200 varieties I cannot fathom. If anyone knows a source with a large selection, let me know, I'm open for more, love the little buggers.

Nick
eahamel
12 years ago
Disas! I think I've seen ONE. It's way too hot for them where I am, and they are so pretty.
garyfla_gw
12 years ago
Hi
When i first moved to florida manty years ago. i asked a neighbor "What can I grow ?" He said "You can grow anything you want . Real ?? is how much do you want to spend and how hard do you want to work??"
Have found that to be the best piece of advice I've ever gotten. gary
lisa_z5wmi
12 years ago
On the tolumnias; I get them here from time to time in Michigan. There used to be a place- in Washington State, maybe, that had a buddy in Hawaii who hybridized. Chula Orchids was it. Send the guy and email and see what he has- it changes. I did a couple of years ago looking for lots- then Lousy Husband went and got sick so I was too busy for two years doing other stuff.. anyway, they were really nice and may still have an 'in' to the lovely little equitants.
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks, good lead. They have an impressive list of Equitants they had over the years. I enailed them to see what's available now. Do you still have a bunch? I have about 20 and would like to trade if you are interested.

Nick
arthurm
12 years ago
I haven't got 200 grexs of 'Tolumnia' , nothing like those numbers. Might have 400 plants as the result of deflasking and the wait to flowering. If i had some time i'd record what i have got and put the plants in order.

I think the local guys picked up on the breeding of Perreira in Hawaii and went on from there. I have done nil breeding.

Anyway, back to the topic. Nick, you are one of those people who i would term 'Super 'grower. Our local Society has one, then maybe half a dozen good average growers, some average growers and some battlers plus about a dozen Novice growers.

Those Super growers bench their plants at open shows and walk away with the Champion Ribbons.

Every time, i've "boldly gone" there have been lots of failure.
Warm growing hard cane Dens.
Phalaenopsis (supposed to be easy)
Zygopetalums
etc,etc
Best to stick to something that grows well in your conditions and have lots of them...I know Boring. But i'm happy having about thirty different clones of Cattleya intermedia.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some Tolumnia & friends pics
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
Some are super, some are more super. We have a 'more super' grower than me who always grabs the one and only trophy we give for 'Species'. Most of my best plants I can't take to shows because they collapse. Pleuros and Dracula just don't like sitting on a show floor for 3 days.

Robert Perriera Orchids is still active in Hawaii, left a phone message, see what he has. Chula Orchids has an endless list of Tollumnias, not for sale but plants they had at one time. Must be 200 or so.
http://www.chulaorchids.com/html/equitant_list.html

I hear what you are saying about this being a 'bumpy road'. I learned a long time ago to get away from plants that don't like me. Newbies sometimes are amazed how healthy all of my plants look. They are not aware of the failures which have been removed so no trace of them remains.

I hope I can score some Tollumias from Hawaii, really like them.

Nick
lisa_z5wmi
12 years ago
I zapped an email to my usual guy who tends to have equitants at the March show in Ann Arbor. Maybe he'll clue me in on where he gets them- I already know it is from Hawaii, but not sure who.
I never did get a big order from Chula- right as I was finalizing what I wanted homelife went south and I never placed it. So I only have a dozen or so. Almost all in spike right now. Mostly pretty straightforward ones like you can find on Hausermann's orchids website. But I do have one cross: Robsan's pick x Robsan's good choice or something like that that is pretty big that I could divide. It will have to wait until spring.. remind me. It is a nice red. Do keep in mind that Tolumnias actually die eventually- unlike other orchids that keep going so long as they are happy.

On your original topic: we get great slipper orchids and phals in my neck of the woods. But we have a harder time with really high light stuff like vandas- so only growers who have special set ups bring those, and they turn everybody's heads. A girlfriend drove to Florida to see a show there and commented that their prizewinning paph would not even have been brought to the show in the first place up here. But they were chock-a-block with vandas of every color.
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
'Tolumnias actually die eventually-' I did not know this. A plant left to it's own devices will then eventually fade and die. Divisions, I assume, act like young plants with a full life span ahead of them. One would be wise then to divide them to keep bouncing the ball down the road.

It's amazing how they act differently in different zones. None of mine are in spike right now, all bloomed earlier on, right now are making new fans. In Hawaii the source may well be Robert Perriera Orchids who made many of the crosses. I could not find an email for him but did come up with a phone number. Called, no response yet. Chula Orchids has none for sale right now.

Any idea how long they live? I'll get back to you in the spring, maybe we could trade, I have a division of 'Robefield' ready to go.

Nick
westoh Z6
12 years ago
As with most other orchids I can attest that they do die eventually, well under my care anyhow ;-)

How do you guys grow yours? Me: Clay pots and a fast draining orchiata mix or inorganic mix.

I've also read that they are designed to die, I think because of something about being a 'twig/small branch' growing plant, but I don't remember the exact reasoning. As I recall, in the past I had a few for @5 years before their demise.

I picked up a couple of pretty ones from EOoM last spring, one is in spike for the first time now, the other is just growing. Had 7 or 8 previously, but battled scale on these in the past.

Bob
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
They seem to be magnets for pests. When I see even one yellow leaf on them I carefully inspect for pests which can hide well at the seat of the fans. I lost a couple to scale which did not show on the leaves but was well established never the less. Every 3 month (if I can remember) I spray them with Bayer Advantage (or is it Advance?) a systemic which is effective against scale.

Nick
arthurm
12 years ago
"Do keep in mind that Tolumnias actually die eventually- unlike other orchids...."
Well, here is a pic of Tolumnia William Thurston 'Orchidglade' AM/AOS which no doubt is still alive in some collections in the USA. No idea when Jones and Scully produced this orchid. It is somewhat dated as far as the shape of the flowers goes but the colour is nice.
I have several divisions of the plant and like some of the orchids mentioned in a previous post it might last forever in cultivation. Not so for those orchids in nature when the host tree or shrub dies.
{{gwi:202601}}
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
Beautiful color, love it. Scrounging around the internet I doubt that more than 50 grexes are available in the US today, if that. When I divide some of mine and offer them for trade, they are snapped up right away but I have never received one in trade. At one time they were very popular, then they fell out of the limelight and now you hardly ever see them both at shows and on the tables of the societies. I do believe their popularity is on the rise judging from the interest expressed whenever I show some.

Nick
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
I just talked to someone about the lifespan of Tollumnias who sells and grows them and who just returned from the World Orchid Congress. There, he says, he saw huge clumps of Tollumnias covered with flowers, 8" to 10" in diameter. These obviously were older plants.

He thinks in nature they don't get big because they do live on small twigs and get blown off by the wind. In cultivation, their downfall may be that larger plants don't get the opportunity to dry out completely. This seems to be essential to their well being. He keeps his larger clumps separate and waters them less than the smaller ones. Keeping that in mind, he believes they should live like other orchids, more or less indefinitely.

Nick
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
I have a question for Arthur. This thread has turned into a Tollumnia thread and it has lead me to score some new ones. By the way, Rosie O'donell is tying the knot this Xmas so even bold men will have no chance there after that. Back to Tollumias.

I just unpacked 5 very robust, healthy seedlings from Exotic Orchids of Hawaii. They are all seedlings, no clones. How much diversity could one expect from them. By now the genetic background of these Tollumnias must include a multitude of DNA contributors. I will use one as an example. Onc Golden Sunray x (Rdcm (Crystal Veil x Spring Bouquet) sounds like it has enough parentage right there that 10 different plants should produce a diversity of expression with close to 10 different flowers. I know you have many of the same name. Unless they are clones, are the flowers different and by how much? I would want to avoid getting 10 different ones with a yellow flower and red spots where the only difference is the location of the spots.

Comment?

Nick
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
Just unpacked an order from Hauserman of 4 plants, all clones. They are healthy plants, twice the price and half the size of the EOoM plants. Are seedlings that much cheaper? I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Nick
westoh Z6
12 years ago
Nick,

FWIW: I've always been happy with any order I've received from EOoM, always nice sized plants for the price plus a freebie usually.

I have the Onc Golden Sunray x (Rdcm (Crystal Veil x Spring Bouquet) cross and it is just about ready to bloom, single spike with about a dozen buds. I'll let you know how it looks or maybe even snap a pic in the next week or so.

Bob
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
Second that, I got a freebie too.

Nick
arthurm
12 years ago
Nick,
You have certainly picked an apt name for this thread. I have resolved the name of your orchid somewhat....how about Tolumnia Golden Sunray x Llonara Cassie's Prince. You are on the crest of the great renaming.

I had no idea who the lady in question is/Rosie who? Thank goodness for google. Getting married is a "gamble fraught with danger" but many people "go boldly" to their doom.

Back to the topic. I have only two Tolumnia mericlones. The one pictured above produced by Jones and Scully and Zelemnia Liz Ã¯Â¿Â½Full MoonÃ¯Â¿Â½ produced and registered by Ross Maidment (Aranbeem Orchids) in 1985. Another one that is easy to grow provided you supply the essentials of; A free draining Mix, Underpotting and maintenance which includes removal of old leafless stumps and associated dead roots.
{{gwi:202603}}
One of the parents of Zelemnia Liz is Golden Sunset which is a parent in 134 registered crosses.
Golden Sunray might be a spec parent. Wonder how the flowers on your orchid will turn out?
orchidnick
Original Author
12 years ago
The lady in question has shown a disdain for the stronger sex and to go there, given her other traits, would have been a bold move indeed.

I'm planning to get 10 to 20 seedlings of the same parentage just to see the variation in offspring. I'm told by the grower that yellow penetrates strongly, most of the the offspring of yellow parents will be yellow, so plan to choose a non-yellow parental pair.

Nick
arthurm
12 years ago
There are always exceptions to rules.

This
{{gwi:202605}}
Crossed with this
{{gwi:202603}}
gave this
{{gwi:202608}}
And about 14 other flowerings so far of various quality and shades of pink and red, but no yellowsÃ¯Â¿Â½Ã¯Â¿Â½

Back to the main topic. If I had deep enough pockets IÃ¯Â¿Â½m sure a "cool" house would be the way to go.
westoh Z6
12 years ago
Nick,

As mentioned earlier my Onc Golden Sunray x (Rdcm (Crystal Veil x Spring Bouquet) cross bloomed in the last couple of weeks. I've got some pics but haven't posted to an on-line site yet, but...

The flowers have a yellow background with variable maroon/red spots and some solid maroon/red in the center. Looks a lot like other Eqi'/Tol's I've grown in the past. Fairly large flowers and I had about a dozen on a single spike. Lasted about 10-14 days and are starting to fade and wilt now.

I'm pretty un-impressed with the flowers.

Bob

To go boldly where no man has gone before.

Comments (24)

ginnibug

orchidnick
Original Author

Related Discussions

orchidnick
Original Author

eahamel

garyfla_gw

lisa_z5wmi

orchidnick
Original Author

arthurm

orchidnick
Original Author

lisa_z5wmi

orchidnick
Original Author

westoh Z6

orchidnick
Original Author

arthurm

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

westoh Z6

orchidnick
Original Author

arthurm

orchidnick
Original Author

arthurm

westoh Z6

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

To go boldly where no man has gone before.

Comments (24)

orchidnickOriginal Author

Related Discussions

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

orchidnickOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author

orchidnick
Original Author