aml, great idea for a thread, and good advice for everyone. Summarizing the point of your post in a few words keeps everything on point, too.

What I would like to say to newbies is this: when someone tells you to read up on culture, offers a book title, or websites with good culture sheets, they are not trying to make work for you or put you down. They are trying to share knowledge with you.

Finding good sources is always the hardest step for new people. Often that's all the "professors" can give us-- a recommendation of who is a good source. And people pay thousands to get it.

When you read lots of different things, you get beyond the store of knowledge on this board, into a wider world that really does have lots more knowledge available.

Some of the specialist culture sheets have been written by people who have grown orchids under lots of different conditions for many years, and who judge as well sell *and* breed them. Actually, that's true of some of the posters here as well. But it may be easier to believe it from a specialist website.

The specialists really do know a lot, and some have been generous enough to write several pages of culture hints based on their intimate knowledge of the type of plant. People also learn better when the same theme is repeated in many different ways. You're bound to get a higher quality of knowledge when you can glean from a wider base of more different sources.

I also sometimes recommend culture sheets or a book to newbies when answers disagree, or I think someone is being given only part of the story, or when the OP is resisting something that's being advised. Sometimes seeing it *in print* is more compelling.

Aml - We're thinking the same thing. I just started a thread about a welcome message for forum newcomers that includes some of these topics.

Mehitabel - Have newcomers indicated they thought you were trying to make work for them or put them down when you suggested books, Websites, etc.? That would be too bad. You're right, getting resources from experienced folks is golden.

Whitecat8

WC, I forget who it was, someone who doesn't post much, but a post recently about newbies, said we were insulting people by recommending they read the Ortho book instead of replying ourselves.

Mehitabel, that would be I. I can't recall the exact post,but I do remember taking a stance that since the op took the time to post a picture, a little more insight than buy a book could have been afforded her.I wasn't trying to be confrontational, only to offer a perspective from those of us who are still relatively new to this.I have my fair share of orchid books and have learned more from chatting with "real" people (yourself and WC included) than a thousand books could provide.There are so many nuances in growing orchids that most print couldn't cover it. Put it in the sun,don't put it in the sun.Not enough water if the leaves are floppy,too much water if the leaves are floppy.Sphag is good,sphag is bad ect...What I have learned more than anything is what works for one may not work for me. But to a "newbie" you are all a lifeline for those venturing into this seemingly overwhelming territory.A thoughtful response is always appreciated. :)

T-bred,

Do you remember - when you joined this forum, were there still guidelines about reading the FAQs and archives before posting and about making thread titles specific? Just curious because GW has made quite a few changes since I joined.

I know what you mean about the nuances. Even some of the most detailed printed resources can be at the 2' level of specificity when my question needs the 3" level. And then here, experienced growers can have different methods... Really ups my tolerance for ambiguity. :)

Whitecat8

I don't know if I should post this here or on WC's thread, but I guess this one is the winner since others have posted already.

When you start a thread, it's your responsibility to manage that thread. You simply don't sit back and wait for responses to accumulate. One of the great things about this forum is the wonderful, public dialogue that takes place. In the past, it was truly outstanding. Lately - not so much.

I don't care how impersonal the internet is. That is not an excuse for basic decency. What do do or say here should be no different from what you do or say to real people in your daily life. That also includes that long-forgotten phrase "Thank you". If people have taken the time to post responses to your thread, you thank them. If they give you a recipe for chocolate chip cookies instead of orchid advice, you thank them.

I'm from Minnesota and so are a few other folks. There's also a bunch from the Midwest in general. We say "thank you" all the time. We also hold doors open for people, volunteer like crazy, visit our grandmothers, wish folks "Merry Christmas" and makes casseroles for church dinners (maybe that's stretching things a bit), but at least we know how to make casseroles if the occasion calls for one. We expect the same things from others. We've been doing this for thousands of years and it works. That's why we keep doing it.

I don't care if you're too busy, or your dog died, or your house burned down, or you had some other great reason to not follow up. You find the time to say thank you.

OK, I'm done.

Kevin

Whitecat, I don't recall being directed to a specific use policy when I first visited this forum. I did however check the faq's and use the search function for some time before my first post.

I don't believe people post here trying to be annoying or poorly prepared they just want some real advice.As freshman it might seem to some ,asking where to cut a spike and getting a real answer from an orchid master is huge.

You have all been great people in taking time to help out. I think a nice opening to any intro to the forum would be "we agree to disagree I can't guarantee any of this will help YOU but it works for me."

And Kevin, Thanks!!! :)

I do sort of recall being directed to some guidelines about posting - it seems they went away within the last few weeks? But there is also that paragraph you have to scroll past when posting about reading the FAQ and searching the forum first. It is poorly laid out and I am sure most of us just scrolled right past it.

That said, I agree with you, Kevin, about managing your thread (except for when they go wild....new DVD! "Threads Gone Wild!") AND I agree about saying thanks. But just like any other web forum or board, there will be folks who post and run...get their answer, never to return...

OK. I am brand new here and not even an orchid grower. I would not know how to pot one up if you paid me the current Lottery Prize. But sometimes, I come on over here and read a bit and see your stunning photos.

I am, however, a gardener myself. I grow sweet peas, hippeastrums, narcissus, and many other things. I once went to a professional orchid show just to see what the fuss was about. There were many, many different types of orchids and colours and arrangements of them. It really was quite a show. I remember most of all some yellow and velvety brown ones and they were something!

But the memory that most stands out in my mind is that of a visit to my hairdresser. On this occasion, there were three Cattleyas in an amethyst bowl on the nearby credenza. They were pure white and very large and had a very frilly, deep purple throat (almost the same colour as the bowl). The picture is still in my mind: that is what an orchid is to me. If I could grow them, I would get that one.

I read this thread just to see what kind of remarks you had to make about general tips for beginners. I must say that you all are one polite and nice bunch. I have seen some people get some nasty remarks from others on some forums but so far this one is as you say, very decent.

As one member said: just because this is the internet it is not an excuse to forget your manners. I was raised with them too; and I appreciate all of your helpful advice and polite and friendly manner. One should not have to defend oneself on a visit to GardenWeb, after all.

You have a great Forum here in the orchid section.

Hopflower, NOTHING smells better than a sweet pea!!! I have tried for the last couple years to start them from from seed,no success so far . Thanks for your open mindedness with "other" genre. Keeps the world turning! :)

t-bred: That is what I think.

You CAN grow them. What part of the country do you live in? I have helped people grow them that never could before, plenty of times. (Sweet Pea saint, here) Heheh! There is a reason they are not coming up for you. Let's find out what it is and get those peas climbing!

Is it not realistic to expect someone to have basic growing knowledge? I could not imagine have the slightest success growing orchids without having a background in growing other plants.

Most people who answer newcomers questions, assume the poster has some rudimentary knowledge of how plants grow. Sometimes, the OP appears to have no knowledge of plants at all. Is it not proper to suggest they read a few simple books?

A newcomer recently posted asking for advice about two orchids she couldn't identify. She posted photos and they were identified. The advice was to give lots of light to the plants, not to overwater, etc., etc. Her remarks made it clear she was not going to follow the advice to check out AOS culture sheets. Most newcomers still think orchids grow in steamy jungles. The OP instead took the advice on lighting and humidity and went about setting up a growing area which would kill those plants in a couple of weeks.

It was clear she didn't understand the basics of how orchids grow, or plants in general. With cases like this I do not think it is inappropriate to strongly suggest reading the FAQ's and offering the Ortho book and AOS link. These are simple reads, and can give them some basic understanding.

Just as hopflower responded to t-bred in a very positive way, I think there should be some way to get that type of message across to newcomers, 'You CAN Grow Orchids, We Can Help!'
Start with the FAQ's and then come back and ask us specific questions.

Jane

Upon reflecting for a moment, I think the problem with referring someone to a book or even a website (and yes I've done it too)is the question of will they really drop everything take time out of their busy schedules to do more research online or drive to the library or local book store in search of the book? I think this may be off putting for the "common" grower. I think most of them feel a few basics will get them by. I have a number of orchid growing books among many other how too books but I only took the time out to search them out and buy them when the orchid bug "bit me" once the addiction set in I NEEDED to know more.

That said maybe we need really really basic info in the FAQ and/or welcome page that include photos that give a basic idea what each type of plant looks like, thier names, and detailed instructions on how to/not to water ie: using a skewer or as one poster mentioned even a qtip. Also a better definition of what low medium and high light really means. The average house plant grower most likely will not be buying lightbulbs to grow thier plants. That IMHO only will happen once addiction phase starts. So explaining for the common windowsill growers how many hours of direct sunlight their various plants should have and how far from the window and which direction the windows ideally should face may help a great deal. Most may not take time to research what the h--- a footcandle is and then try to apply it to the plant they have especially if it is one plant in many various houseplants.

Larissa

will they really drop everything take time out of their busy schedules to do more research online or drive to the library or local book store in search of the book?

Yes, if they are truly interested in orchids. The Ortho book is available everywhere from Amazon to HD. There is tons of information on the web. If the OP considers the orchid "just another houseplant" or "part of the decor" maybe this is not a good forum for them, especially if they won't take the time to read the FAQ.

welcome page that include photos that give a basic idea what each type of plant looks like, their names, and detailed instructions on how to/not to water

It would take slightly more than a page. There are hundreds of genera and thousands of species growing on all the continents except Antarctica under every growing condition imaginable.

The FAQ has a lot of great information. So does the Ortho book(and other books). When the question is of the "I just got an orchid, now what?" variety, guidance toward the basic sources of information along with some general encouragement is the only practical answer.

I could be wrong about this, really. But this is my opinion. I work in a law firm where lots of people get orchids as gifts. They come to me asking for growing advice. I know if I oversimplify they'll get it wrong. And if I give them too much information their eyes will just glaze over. Either way, their orchid is a goner.

Point being, that orchids are specialized. For a person to be successful with them, they have to have an inquiring mind about them. If they have that, they will appreciate leads to good texts. If they don't, no amount of advice, however clearly and tactfully offered, will transform them into good growers. But in THEIR minds, they will feel justified they've done their best - when in reality, they haven't done anything.

John :>)

Hooray for John!

Anyways, how about making sure your post covers the 5 Ws -
1) who are you (e.g. beginner to orchids and all green things)?
2) where are you (it's a big, wide world)?
3) what kind of orchid is it/do you grow (if you don't know, remember a picture is worth a thousand words)? what is the problem?
4) when did you get the orchid? when did you first notice the problem?
5) how do you grow the orchid and/or your other plants?

Makes answering a lot easier.

Julie

Good point John. What I have found is that people who have gardened for years, houseplants, outdoors, just have a feel for growing. They have been the most successful. My neighbor was given a lovely yellow Catt last year and has 4 blooms on it. She called me to tell me the news. I see her plant sitting in her window all year. Sometimes I shutter when I drive past, but she got 4 blooms.

She is elderly, but gardened all her life and has a houseful of African Violets - and one blooming Catt. The only advice I gave her last year was to not overwater and give it plenty of light. I made it sound simple. It worked because she knew what those terms meant.

Everyone who grows has to start somewhere. I feel it is better to start with petunias than orchids. You need some basic growing knowledge. I've told people to give their orchids away because I knew they just 'didn't get it.'

Jane