I hope that there will be a good explanation for this from someone...meanwhile, I can understand your great disappointment in the way the day turned out. How sad.

That is so sad ----It would seem to me that many people might only be able to be there for one day----

Hopefully they will change this practice and make it available for a one day visit.

Florence

The programs and the ticket costs are all clearly stated on the website
http://www.greatrosarians.com/index.html

Saturday is only a partial day (just a workshop at 12:00 and another one at 2:00). Clearly the bulk of the hoopla was planned for Sunday. It looks to me as if $50. is for Sunday and Saturday is a freebie if you happened to feel like coming in a day early....

Sunday

The speakers are stated for Sunday, but not what the topics are. I read the website multiple times hoping to find the information that I needed. It listed prices for Saturday and Sunday, but didn't say if you could get a ticket for just Sunday. Otherwise I wouldn't have wasted two hours of my time.

Aimee -- I think you must have missed a link to the full listing of topics, times, and speakers.
I wish you'd asked earlier. I'd have sent you in the right direction.

And yes. You might say the cost was for the Sunday events, and Saturday was "extra."
For a whole host of reasons, we went only to today. It WAS a very full day, and WHEW! I'm TIRED.

And very glad to be home, and ready for some sleepytime tea, the weather forecast, bed, and a good book.

Jeri

Am I missing a page? The page below was the only one I could find. I did ask on the forum, too, last week, and I appreciated being told that it would great, but I really wanted to know what the topics were, so that I could know whether it was worth the money to me or not. I emailed Clair asking about the topics, too, and didn't get a response. The page below does list the speakers and the times, but not the topics. It lists the topics (the sustainable rose garden) on Saturday... but not what they were talking about -today-.

Unfortunately, I don't feel that I can afford $50 for one day of (unknown to me) lectures at moment. That's my problem of course. I'm sure it was a great opportunity to those who were better informed or had more means. If I'd know that that this was the case beforehand, (ie that 'Saturday is a freebee' and somewhat inconsequential and $50 is basically the price for one day... then I wouldn't have gotten all excited and driven all that way only to be disappointed.

http://www.greatrosarians.com/growwest.html

Sunday, January 23 � 
Friends' Hall, The Huntington Library, Art Collections, and Botanical Gardens
9:00 AM Registration, Friends� Hall
9:30 AM Program: Gregg Lowery, proprietor Vintage Gardens, Sebastopol, CA
10:30 AM Program: �Peter Kukielski, The Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden, The New York Botanical Garden
11:45 AM Lunch on your own
1:15 PM Book Signing: �The Sustainable Rose Garden
2:00 PM Program: �Ruth Knopf
3:30 PM Reception

Here is a link that might be useful: Great Rosarians Schedule

Also, I don't really feel that you could tell that Saturday was inconsequential by looking at the posted website schedule, as, workshop at 12 and another at 2 on Saturday, isn't all that far removed from Sunday, taking away an hour or so, as Sunday, no further information given is 9:30-11:45 (roughly 2 hours) and then 2-3:30 (an hour and a half), if you're counting the lectures.

I went last year... This event is done on a shoestring budget with a lot of volunteer effort. The resources of the Huntington are only offered in terms of a place to hold the event. Everything else is Clair's effort, the effort of volunteers, and the proceeds of the tickets. No one is making any $ from this. If it's not perfectly choreographed, if the info is a bit confusing and vague...well, it's a labor of love, not the NFL Superbowl with unlimited budget and staff available.

It was interesting for me, but more of a social event, a way to meet other rosarians, than a delivery of hard-core growing information. We got to have lunch and talk with the guy from David Austin (he was a delight). That was fun. It depends what you are/were looking for. A horticultural class at Cal Poly might be more useful.

WAIT! I didn't say that Saturday's programs were "inconsequential."
We didn't attend on Saturday because they were topics upon which we personally weren't seeking information, and MOSTLY, because we have a sick, old, dog to attend to, and we wished to minimize stress to HER.

Now, I see what you mean by not knowing the topics.

I speak only for myself, in saying that I will go to hear Gregg Lowery speak on any topic he cares to cover. He always brings something interesting to the table, and I am interested in most of the roses HE is interested in.

I knew who Ruth Knopf was, and that she was particularly noted for her rose conservation efforts in the S.E. Noisettes, in particular. But if you DIDN'T know that -- you could have asked, and I bet a ton of folks here could have filled you in. OR you could GOOGLE Ruth Knopf.

I went for THOSE talks, didn't care a hoot and a hollar about Peter Kukielski (sp?) et al. Some folks walked the gardens during those talks. I went out and paid attention to the dogs, waiting in the motorhome.

HoovB -- as usual -- sums it up very well. She has a way of putting her finger on the heart of the matter.

Jeri

Every convention/event I have ever been to has had a one day policy and I just don't see what reason GR could have for not allowing people to attend for one day for a reduced price.

Well it kind of depends. In more modern subjects people usually get organized that well (even with volunteer effort) and handle it that way.

Then again, in academic or older societies world, you often pay for the whole seminar, regardless of how many of the planed program you want to attend. It is more about hanging out and meeting people, also often involves a good dose of chaos (hence it is often not realistic to expect an organizer to answer the mails last days before the event, usually people are just too busy to check their e-mails). Lectures itself might even be rather dull, it is what you get in between of them (which sometimes is a lot, and sometimes nothing at all, if the lectors are too busy to pay attention to the noobs. ;)).

It definitely sucks though to drive that far just to figure that the ticket was too expensive.

Don't be too tough on the organizers. Its a ton of work and usually borne by one or two individuals. I've been there and have been attacked publicly by individuals who didn't like a speaker or who couldn't understand how I forgot about their food allergy or....

I only did it once.

Always call first if you are wondering about something not explicitly stated on an event's website, imho. It would be nice for many folks if tickets for multi-day events were always split up, but the simple fact is that they aren't in many cases :) Everything sounds above board, I think. I'm sorry it was disappointing, though!

I volunteered at The Huntington throughout the 80s and 90s propagating roses, working the plant sales and organizing, staffing, planning and working the Old Rose Symposiums and Rose Festivals. What is being complained about as "high ticket prices" are the lowest they have been in a very long time. The Symposiums cost in the hundreds to attend. The GROTW events had become rather expensive, more than the $50 minimum entry this year, until Clair deliberately worked it to reduce and maintain lower prices to permit more people to comfortably attend.

Pulling something like this off is an outright b#@%ch. Someone is going to get bent out of shape for something. Guaranteed. I know. Been on both sides of that splintery fence many times. There are fixed costs which must be covered or the institution will not permit you to host the event again. Each of the honored guests have to flown in, driven around, fed and hoteled while there. Some require honorariums to come. Not all, but some do. There are security costs which are associated with the event, not to mention the loss of revenue from other events requiring the facilities this one occupies at this time.

The price of the tickets far from covered the cost of hosting the event. A one day ticket wasn't offered because the heavier, more "meaty" talks were Sunday. How intelligent is it to potentially cut your revenue in half by making it possible to only pay for one day? Two days worth were offered to allow people to arrive in town, get settled and find their ways around as well as to sight see while there. Many of us took the opportunity to catch up with friends whom we don't frequently see and to check out old favorites on the grounds. I know of many, some local and many more from out of the area, who paid full price and were only able to attend the one day. You don't get a movie or play ticket for half price because you're only interested in half of the performance. You don't pay half of the restaurant price because you only want the desert. The admission price was posted for two days. Nothing was mentioned about one day pricing, so no expectations should be made they will exist.

Saturday was the less formal day. It was also a fuller day for those of us who were there because we could wander around, see what we wanted to see, the people we wanted to talk to and go where we wanted to go. I wouldn't have enjoyed myself nearly as much had I only gone one day, though I DO understand not being able to attend both. Many times over the past twenty-five years, I've had to miss days of Symposiums, Festivals, etc. there because of work or prior commitments. But, I learned a long time ago, make the decision that if it's going to cost you full price for only a part of it, if it isn't worth it to you, don't go. If it is, enjoy. But, I never waste the gas and time getting there and then decide not to attend. If I'm going to make presumptions, they'll be that it will cost me full for part, and not that I won't stay unless they give me a break. That is YOUR choice and YOUR decision. No one wasted your time nor gas but you.

How intelligent is it to potentially cut your revenue in half by making it possible to only pay for one day?

Actually, it isn't cutting it in half, if you plan it out well. Usually it goes like this: you split the speakers (as an organizer you should more or less know which will be most wanted) more or less even for both days. Then you set a price per day (lets say $30 per day) and offer a discount if someone wants to buy tickets for both days (lets say $50 in total). As people often can make only one day, you overall earn 60$ for the event, just the price is paid by 2 people, instead of 1, like it would be for the joined tickets.

It encourages the participation, as people might be able to afford only 1 day, or find it not worth to pay also for a day they are not interested in. Numbers count really, you always get more from more participants for the lower price, than less participants for the higher price. Not to split cost makes sense only if the event is lacking participants, as then you want to charge those who would come anyways, no matter the price, at the maximum price.

I suppose, what Aimee was expecting, was a bit more modern model of organizing things. Comparing for example with the theater or music events, sure you do not get a discount for half the performance, but you almost always can buy day tickets or get huge discounts if you buy whole event pass. It is fairly common practice really, but I think more in a bit more modern fields of interest.

I would not expect anything else lets say if I went to the gaming convention, hell, nowadays you buy tickets to even watch the whole convention online. But with academic or gardening events for that matter, I think simply the community is not there yet to be that neat and fast and updating everything on facebook, twitter, iphone and what not else. I mean, half of the garden shops online look like the homepages back in the 90-ties, made with Frontpage and hosted on Tripod - and it is not some kid selling his plants, but well respected business. They will get there someday, but I don't think that many would be able to make a full use of modern interactive pages, not mentioning building one for the event.

I do not have any other hobby that uses the same layout as Garden Web, which probably should be classified as antique by now. :) It is just something to keep in mind when dealing with the nurseries and other garden related stuff. :)

Great Rosarians started as a one day event, only on Sunday. A few years ago, they added Saturday, which really feels like a "bonus" day. The Great Rosarian being honored still gives a lecture on Sunday, and that's where most of the expense of the event is focused, since that's who gets brought in and has his/her expenses paid. Sorry that you didn't get more info and wasted a trip. I try to keep an eye on this forum and could possibly have added some info, but didn't see your post. I really didn't know what Gregg Lowery was talking about (a very charming and informative talk about "Mystery Roses) or the specifics of Peter Kukielski's talk (a very showy, also informative talk about the renewal of the Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden in NYBG and his efforts to make it a chemical-free, sustainable rose garden). The morning program was brilliant - the afternoon was lovely, with Ms. Knopf speaking quietly and unassumingly about all that she's done to preserve roses in the Charleston area.

Two things that she said resonated most with me - first of all, she showed photo after photo of big, beautiful roses and gardens that were suddenly gone, and talked about the need to take cuttings and spread around roses. She also talked about being asked to do things, and saying, "Well, ok..." Her willingness to take on challenging tasks and opportunities led to Boone Hall's noisette collection and a number of other things - I love that spirit.

I've been to six of the Great Rosarian events, and almost always learn something, get inspired, and have a lot of fun saying hi to friends old and new.

They now have a GROW east, and Ms. Knopf will be honored there in June, and repeat her talk.
Anita

I realized before I posted any of this that people would probably get mad at me. But please think about it from the perspective of someone who is new, is excited about learning more about roses and doesn't know "how things have been done" for a long time previous. It's understandable that perhaps various societies are not super well organized, are run by volunteers, or aren't "modern"...

but isn't this forum always talking about how there aren't enough new gardeners...? Not enough people interested in old roses, etc...?

This event MUST have been planned far in advance to arrange for those speakers.

All it would have taken, and all I would have liked, would have been to have more clear information on the website (or the Huntington newsletter) or something. I'm not expecting them to be on twitter and facebook and all that.

and for those who are just going for the social aspect... I feel like I need to say... then why go to Huntington if it's so expensive? Why not just organize a meetup? Sure, Huntington is gorgeous, and I'm sure the talks were great... but if you don't care for the particular topics and are just going for the social aspect, then why pay $50? I think it's great that they're trying to organize stuff like this. I'm just saying.

Just a little more information on the website about the ticketing policy and what the talks and events were about would have gone MILES, literally for me. And this much information must have been known in advance by the people running it and would have taken perhaps 5 to 10 minutes to put on the website.

I'm not trying to say "I hate everyone" or that the event is trying to scam people or that they're charging too much or anything like that.
All I said is that FOR ME, based on my experiences with other events and because I did NOT have the information that you guys had, it was disappointing and confusing. With the limited information I had, it didn't seem worth it to me to go for one day for the price of two, especially when the only information I had was the speaker list. After being filled in by you guys after the fact, I can understand it a lot better.

I'm just saying, from the perspective of someone who does not have all this background information you guys have, this was disappointing and it is something that can be easily remedied in future events, and would probably encourage more people to go, which would probably offset the costs of holding the event, too.

Aimee -- I REALLY hear what you're saying.

OTOH, having been in the middle of organizing events, I also know that it's not just that easy to set up one of these events.
HOWEVER, the information WAS out there.
This was on Pg. 13 of the November issue of the HRG "Rose Letter":
SAT., JAN. 22:
TEACHING GREENHOUSE, THE HUNTINGTON LIBRARY,
ART COLLECTIONS, & BOTANICAL GARDENS

12:00 P.M. WORKSHOP 1: COMPOSTING & MULCH

2:00 PM �WORKSHOP 2:
TRANSITIONING TO A SUSTAINABLE ROSE GARDEN:
GIVING UP THE CHEMICALS�

6:00 P.M.: GREAT ROSARIANS OF THE WORLD VI
BANQUET

SUN., JAN. 23:
FRIENDS HALL, THE HUNGTINGON LIBRARY,
ART COLLECTIONS, & BOTANICAL GARDENS

9:00 A.M. REGISTRATION, FRIENDS� HALL
9:30 A.M. PROGRAM: GREGG LOWERY,
PROPRIETOR VINTAGE GARDENS, SEBASTOPOL, CA
10:30 A.M. PROGRAM: �PETER KUKIELSKI,
THE PEGGY ROCKEFELLER ROSE GARDEN,
THE NEW YORK BOTANICAL GARDEN
11:45 AM LUNCH ON YOUR OWN
1:15 PM: �BOOK SIGNING:
THE SUSTAINABLE ROSE GARDEN: A READER IN ROSE CULTURE
GENE WAERING, EDITOR

It was preliminary, but it WAS there. That's the job of Newsletters, and that's why we bust our tails putting them out.

Jeri

I think what Aimee is saying she wanted to know the topics of the talks given by the speakers on Sunday.

That is, exactly what Gregg Lowery, Peter Kukielski and Ruth Knopf were going to speak on.

Some people have canned talks and make the rounds of the various garden club, master gardener, rose club events and give those canned talks. They have topics that are advertised ahead of time. They are for "educational" purposes.

Those canned talks are different from talks given by others who, by their very position or knowledge, can talk about whatever they think pertinent. People are just glad to be in the same room and for an opportunity to hear from them.

People paid to see and hear Gregg Lowery, Peter Kukielski and Ruth Knopf because of who they are and what they have done, hoping to gain some insight into their knowledge or experience. Sunday's program was an event honoring Ruth Knopf, not a workshop.

Anyway, that's how I perceived the entire process. I almost flew to LA to attend, as I'm really interested in Ruth Knopf. If I'd done so, I wouldn't have expected to hear a primer on raising noisettes, but would have been thrilled at the opportunity to hear from a very rare kind of rose lover. Whatever she said.

The same with Gregg Lowery.

I'm sorry you missed it Aimee, I think it would have been well worth the $50 and you could have talked with Jeri, Anita, Kim and a number of other really interesting people that I'm sure were there.

Gean

I never said I was looking for a primer workshop or a canned speech.
Apparently a request for the group running the event's website to have more details on ticketing and more details other than a speaker list in the future is completely unreasonable and somehow insulting to the speakers and I should feel ashamed for being ignorant and confused.

Pricing policies are always difficult decisions. To some extent, the policy of an overall price rather than an a la carte menu represents an attempt to permit the most popular aspects of a program to carry the less popular aspects. I note that the WFRS conventions seem to favor the overall price structure as opposed to the usual ARS conventions which favor the a la carte menu approach. However, that may be changing as the October 2011 ARS National Convention seems to be operating on total ticket pricing approach. There are upsides and downsides to whatever approach is adopted and no approach will satisfy all parties. Were I an exhibitor primarily interested in the rose show aspect, I would be livid at the prospect of paying for a convention that I would not otherwise attend; on the other hand, as someone who attends conventions primarily for the educational talks, I decline to attend conventions where the educational talks are about subjects that do not interest me, and a whole convention price better have some pretty good speakers or programs. It seems to me that those adopting either approach are under an obligation to state clearly the limits and constraints of their pricing policy, however. To the extent that this was unclear, I think someone who drove for over an hour to attend an event was misled, but I don't know what accommodation could fairly be made without defrauding others similarly situated.

It appears that really the main turnoff was the 50 bucks. It certainly was too bad that you drove two hours but then would not pay 50 bucks for the activities still available. That was slightly inconsistent, considering the cost of gas etc. Was it really that expensive, after dividing the cost between all the talks etc. that you might have taken in? Nowadays you can easily pay 50 dollars for one potted shrub.

Not that I'm ever in a hurry to spend that much for one plant myself. But it does remain true that

The best manure is money

or however it goes. Ornamental gardening beyond the most minimal extent is inherently an indulgence.

No No Aimee -- It's NOT insulting to the speakers.

But really -- if you wanted more specific on the topics -- shoot -- why not ask -- either here, or privately???

And, Gean's right.
Many of us WERE there, and tho I didn't have the time I wanted, to spend with HALF of the people I encountered, at least I had a few minutes, with a LOT of people I rarely see.
And if I'm honest, I must admit -- that's half the attraction of these things. Probably MORE than half.

Jeri