That is frustrating. I certainly understand how nice it would be to be able to visit your local nursery and buy some of the less common roses out there. I had a similar experience at a nursery in Reno which is about an hour and a half away. They have a large selection of Weeks and some J&P like you say. However no antiques or anything unusual at all and they NEVER put anything on sale. Even as late as October. I finally told them last year that I'd like to buy from them but those two factors make it pretty much impossible. Maybe my opinion matters and maybe it doesn't but if enough people state their criteria for their shopping preferences perhaps it will make an impact on your local vendor.

Kate

I know of no local retail vendor in our area who sells Old Roses.
Austins are about as exotic as they get here.

I don't expect that to change any time soon.

Jeri

Yes, the garden centers mainly carry the mainstream modern roses. Old roses are special, but the garden centers don't seem to understand that concept. All they understand is the almighty? dollar.... cha ching!!

Shopping for roses online even can be a challenge. It's ok if you have an open mind, but if you want a certain one, it can be very tough! helpmefind.com is a great place to ask for help finding the rose you want. It lists nurseries that offer it, and of course you can make a plea here in this forum.

I had a very hard time finding Rosa Canina in any nursery. I finally found it thanks to this forum, but it would have cost me a fortune to purchase it and to have it shipped.

Here in this forum and at helpmefind.com also, two very nice people, one from Sweden and one from Norway offered to send me seeds, and I can't wait to get them! I don't want it for it's blossoms. I want it for it's hips (one delicious juicy hip has more vitamin C than an orange)! My man is from Norway, so this makes it even more special to me!

Good luck finding some very special unique roses online! I wish you the best!!

Suzi

PS I've never grown a rose from seed, and if I succeed, everyone I know will have a Rosa Canina in their back yard!!

gbebe:

What is the name of this nursery and where is located? If many local people complain, maybe things will be different.

FJ

Green Thumb in San Marcos. Last year their selection was much better. This year it seemed they just went the "new releases" and then the standbys. Even if they had had more variety in the HTs I would have been happier. Frankly their selection just wasn't that impressive.

I bought 3 there this year. Sombreuil Climber, Hot Cocoa, and Legends. I really expected to buy more but not much else was really calling out to me...

pity..

One thing you have to understand about garden centers, they sell to the average homeowner who really knows very little about roses except for the modern varieties.
At a garden show last Saturday, the average person I talked to, still thinks Jackson & Perkins is the "place " to obtain roses. Most still consider Blaze as the ultimate climber. Queen Elizabeth, the garden rose to aspire for, and the high centered hybrid tea look as the correct form for a rose.
I had a Power Point program displaying hardy shrub rose pictures on a screen at the rear of our booth. Although the varieties were common to us, most people had never heard of them.
If garden centers and mail order vendors depended on us for business, they'd go out of business quickly.
Rose Forum members are a tiny fragment of the rose buyers.
A well cared for rose garden displaying many classes of roses, informational displays, and rose shows are our best way to educate people there are roses besides QE and Blaze or places to get them other than J&P, Lowes, Home Depot, and WalMart.
At our annual rose show in June, passersby marvel at the many varieties of roses. When I tell them there are over 30,000 known varieties with some 6,000 in commerce, they are dumbfounded.
Thay are unaware of the beauty of a once blooming OGR and some don't know about repeat blooming modern varieties or that some roses can survive down to minus 40.
I'm involved in 3 garden shows this spring, giving programs or simply answering questions, teaching a class about roses at a local arboretum and another at a county library.
If we want to see more types of roses at the garden centers, we need to make a demand for them.
To do that we have to educate the public.
If the many people I invited to my garden this spring show up, I'll have a steady stream going through my garden during the spring bloom.
Garden centers carry what sells. The less common moderns and OGRs don't sell unless they're in bloom. then most die because people don't know how to take care of them.
That's why we need to educate. Volunteer for a day at your local garden center. Tell folks how to plant and care for their rose purchase. If they find out that with a proper planting, watering, pruning, and minimal care, they can successfully grow roses, these OGRs and other scarce varieties may begin to show up in the retail outlets.
I even suggest the Knock Out varieties to people to get them started. Once they find out they can successfully grow a rose they'll soon branch out to other varieties.

Gbebeh, don't get too huffy about your garden center's choices---I know of three BIG garden centers that have closed this year. They just can't afford to ship, pot and sell plants, especially roses, for what the public will pay. I had a painful conversation with the owner of Robertson's Nursery in Pasadena TX this morning...they are closing. Just could not make a living anymore. They were famous for their huge selection of roses, and he said it killed them. One factor that no one has mentioned is that when American women entered the workforce, they had to make hard choices. It's about all they can do to succeed at work and keep their families fed and clothed---there just aren't any hours left over for spraying and weeding and watering. Something had to go, and one casualty was gardening. (Along with ironing and baking and women's church groups.) I know---some of you know Wonderwoman. But most of the soccer moms have a yard service that comes around once a week to mow the grass, and that is the end of the garden effort. Karl makes a good point, that we here are a pretty small minority.

So this is your opportunity to buy OGR from those dealers specializing in them and who, during these times, are also struggling to keep afloat. Garden centers and general nurseries have a much bigger clientelle. Vintage Gardens, roses Unlimited, Ashdown, etc only have YOU.

I would never go to a garden center looking for a ogr in my area and if I find them it's a plus.
Having said that you can find them.
Most do have a selection of David Austins,rugosa aand a few others.
I start looking in the middle of march,going just about once a week.Some times the rose come in even sooner.
Big box stores can be a sorce also.
Some of my best have come from Home Depot in peat pots.
You never know what you will find.

If it was me, I would never suggest a Knockout rose.
I would ask what color they liked and suggest a good garden roses.
Mr Lincoln,Queen Elizabeth,Opening Night, or a few others.
Even minis would be good they don't take up a lot of space and can be planted in pot's and most are own root so they will come back every year.

The Knockout breeding effort is going to be the death of all or most roses and orgs will be lost to history.
I do not have a single Knockout in my yard not because they are not easy roses but what they are doing to the rose gardener.
They do great for the garden centers make no mistake about it and if you noticed every single mail order house how sells them inculding the ones that at one time only sold ogrs or mini's.
In our media driven world all you see is Knock Out,Knock Out and more Knock Out.
Knock Out rose are like the Proven Winner label.
Last year I had a small greenhouse owner tell me that if he put a dandilion in a proven winner liner he could sell it a nd it would be the 'Next Bid Thing'.
That same garden center does not carry a single rose bush because the perception is they are had to care for.

Gardens centers don't have people like us at heart thats for sure.
I buy rose every year and I buy from places I can get something other then the next big thing,
To me something that blooms once a year is fine, my gaden in june is beautyful.

Another better choice then a Knock Out is a rugosa,most bloom all year long with little or no problems.
If you need KnockOuts to be a rose gardener get a lawn !

Stanc
By the way has a Knock Out ever won in a rose show?

Well I take your words to heart. I guess I'm just expecting too much! The good news is I went again today (glutton for punishment) and in the far back they have leftover roses of last years 5 gal roses. I found a lone "crowd pleaser" back there. So one more rose off my wish list. A worker there said "we have tons of bareroots up front" and I said I know but you just didn't get the ones I wanted. She said ...really? we have over 100 kinds!
well yeah... guess I'm just a picky gardenweb rose person!

oh well. I'm over it. I'll order the others online.......
-thanks for all the comments you definitely changed my perspective a bit!

I agree with much said here. Even my local rose nursery, with about 5,000 roses carries 95% hybrid Teas. They aren't my cup of tea but I can't blame them if that is what most people are looking for. They have to carry what the majority demand.

I'd like to add Countryside Roses to Catsrose list. It's owner, Lisa is terrific and so helpful. Her nursery got hit bad by Katrina. I hope she has recouped by now, but who knows.
I think plants aren't profitable. Has anyone else noticed Walmart and Target seem to be shrinking their garden departments?
Nancy

Garden centers and nurseries that purchase their plants outright, can lose money if the weather is bad or business is slow, but large outfits like Walmart and Target usually get their plants on consignment and only pay for those that are scanned through the register. It's a win-win for them with the grower taking the hit. That's why you don't see them being watered or cared for very well. Unless purchased within a day or two of delivery, the quality goes down quickly. Plants they do buy outright are bought so cheaply they can afford big losses and still make a buck.
I can sell bands for $5 and come out ahead so there's money to be made at low prices.

I agree with Karl. It IS tough times out there and as we've seen on here whether a nursery's heart is in it or not, they have to go where the money is. Personally, I'd rather have an OGR any day over an HT, but by and large the public who are amateurs rather than dedicated gardeners, want easy and quick results for their dollars.
Having said that, IF starting with a few Knockouts might tempt someone to try something a bit more demanding then good, it might add another REAL rose fan to the ranks.

Part of the problem is customer loyalty.
All too often there is is none.
There are specialty mail order rose vendors out there who will treat you like gold, if you give them the opportunity.
Find one you like and reward them for what they offer and the manner in which they offer it.

Vintage Gardens, Roses Unlimited, Ashdowns, The Antique Rose Emporium, and others.

Just an opinion,
Randy

Hi All:

This little chat hit home for my love of roses and gardening also. I am frustrated with the endless pallets of roses with 3 - 4 varieties at the big box stores. I'm also sick of seeing so many plants that are overwatered at the same stores, then allowed to die. In my area we have a unique growing situation as we are in the High Mojave Desert. We have the alkaline, clay soil, caliche clay, and the sun + heat, yet in winter we can drop into freezing temps. To some extent we need to be careful when chosing plants but the garden centers choose to ignore this and bring in tons of stuff that doesn't have a chance. It would make a lot of sense to bring in those roses that do well in higher heat temps for obvious reasons but no, they just keep refunding money to those that get returned. Dumb. I will say that Walmart has sized down their nursery area but what they do get in is very healthy and often at a low price. The nearest Target which is quite small compared to the newer stores, have cut down on stock but what they do bring in is very healthy and lush but also suitable for growing in this area. Their prices are a dollar or two more but the plant also totally fills the pot. And the bonus is that they have a very dedicated staff who have worked in the garden dept. for years. Yes the plants are all watered by staff but I don't find dried up or drown'd plants either. I know this particular Target store is a gem, especially the garden dept. I suppose if I was looking for specific roses, I'd get in contact with Armstrong Gardens only because when I can find their roses, they always look so healthy and take off growing immediately. They also get into some of the specialty roses but I don't know to what degree.

I've been looking for that gal who went to work to "buy the little extra's" for her home in about 1979. When I find her, I'm going to pinch her head off. It was those happy homemakers that made our entire economy explode, necessitating women to work. It was a darling idea to think that a nice little job would allow for some new decor but it all turned into a huge vacuum by retailers, car makers, and home builders to suck every last dime out of the middle class, then every other business joined in. Suddenly, the middle class became brainwashed by all the ads; "you deserve, you owe it to yourself, your family deserves, blah, blah, and thought they did deserve everything no matter what the expense. Suddenly everyone is driving new luxury cars, living in huge homes that need lots of furniture, buying clothes at Nordstrom's and eating out all the time. Like I said, I'm looking for that gal who said....Ggggggrrrrr. She's the one that took away all of our roses.

If you want to get anything special you usually have to mail order it. Same thing with roses.

I don't really understand why no one likes modern HTs though. There are many beautiful varieties. OGRs do have their own different beauty, charm, and history. I am happy to grow both.

I know Knockouts are beloved due to their alleged easy care. Honestly in my Florida yard Knockouts, modern HTs, and OGRs are all equally difficult to grow. Knockouts are probably great to use for masses of color in areas where they thrive, but here they get blackspot, chilli thrips and other pests just as much the other roses. They aren't beautiful enough for me to put in the work and money.